Mum needs help and my hands are tied.

[Violet Jane]

Yes, try to be there if at all possible and don't tell your mother about the visit in advance.

You can say that it's a follow-up after her hospital appointment (which is pretty much true).

Could you give the GP her key safe number if you can't be there?

Putting the most positive interpretation I can on your brother's behaviour, there has been far too much acceding to your mother's wishes instead of taking responsibility and putting in place what she needs.

 

[Alora]

Good point Saras - Mum ’s the priority.

, I’ll give the Surgery a call on Monday. Mum has it on her records that her medical business cannot be discussed with anyone so I maybe a bit limited in what they can discuss with me - even a gp visit.

When I rang the hospital for Mum’s next appointment they couldn’t send me a copy of the letter all they could do is tell me over the phone.

Thanks Canary,, Violet Banjo, Martin…

 

[MartinWL]

As Martin says, don’t make any assumptions about what the PoA says. Wait until you see it. Even if there is such a clause that doesn’t change the fact that, if your mother needs care, your brother should be using your mother’s money to pay for it. Ditto anything that your mother needs in the house. It’s her money and it should be spent on her, not hoarded for your brother’s inheritance.

Yes exactly. I am not saying that there is a special clause in the LPA, just that it is possible. We do not know. When you get a copy please post here to say whether you and your brother are joint and several or just joint attorneys, that is important. Also, the exact wording of any special conditions ( except change or miss out names).

 

[MartinWL]

Good point Saras - Mum ’s the priority.

, I’ll give the Surgery a call on Monday. Mum has it on her records that her medical business cannot be discussed with anyone so I maybe a bit limited in what they can discuss with me - even a gp visit.

When I rang the hospital for Mum’s next appointment they couldn’t send me a copy of the letter all they could do is tell me over the phone.

Thanks Canary,, Violet Banjo, Martin…

If you have powers of attorney for health and send the surgery a certified copy of it that should enable them to discuss her health issues with you. Health POA is separate from the financial LPA.

 

[Alora]

Martin, sadly not.

I should have had one when I was at the hospital this week because I had to decide what treatment Mum should have as Mum was not capable. of making that decision and it’s quite invasive treatment too. I expect it’s too late to arrange one? It might make things easier going forward but Mum has to be capable to agree I would guess?

Of course I’ll post here as soon as I get the copy to see what you think.

Violet

I try to be charitable too but there‘s something wrong when a man who will drive a 200 mile round trip within 24 hours of an idea of his mum having a home help to arrange a ‘family discussion‘ and then email that same day to say she doesn’t want it.

 

[lollyc]

Martin, sadly not.

I should have had one when I was at the hospital this week because I had to decide what treatment Mum should have as Mum was not capable. of making that decision and it’s quite invasive treatment too. I expect it’s too late to arrange one? It might make things easier going forward but Mum has to be capable to agree I would guess?

Of course I’ll post here as soon as I get the copy to see what you think.

Violet

I try to be charitable too but there‘s something wrong when a man who will drive a 200 mile round trip within 24 hours of an idea of his mum having a home help to arrange a ‘family discussion‘ and then email that same day to say she doesn’t want it.

You can't arrange Health LPA now, as your mum would very likely be deemed not to have capacity.

I do have it, but, to be honest no-one has ever asked me to produce it at hospital appointments. If anyone wants to try and get any sense out of my mother about her medical history, or indeed anything else, good luck to them!

 

[Duggies-girl]

Agree with @Sarasa You must be there when the GP calls. Do not explain anything to your mother or warn her, just answer the door when he arrives and let him in as you would if he was an old friend with a 'how lovely to see you' and 'mum, we have a visitor, how nice, I'll put the kettle on' then disappear and put the kettle on. If you are lucky you may find that she is so surprised to get a visitor after all this time that she may actually welcome him and go into hostess mode. Whatever happens just let her be herself and the GP will see for himself.

Don't give your mum any chance to object and don't clean anything. The GP will see the state she is living in and he will take notice of any reaction that your mother gives him.

Well done for arranging that. Hope the POA arrives quickly and without clauses.

 

[Violet Jane]

Alora, I'm suspicious of your brother's behaviour, and I think that his 'it's not what Mum wants' explanation for not doing things is a convenient excuse, even if happens to be true (i.e. your Mum refuses to agree to something). As has been said before, your brother should be doing what your mother needs, rather than what she wants, as she is no longer capable of rational decision-making regarding her personal care.

 

[Alora]

Thank you Lollyc but it is down to you and the other guys here who give up their valuable time and knowledge to help me and Mum through this difficult time.

This may be a difficult question to answer and you don’t have to.

If the GP/ SS decide that mum lacks capacity what will they suggest do you think? Would it be a care package or go straight to residential care? I know it’s way too soon and there many hurdles to negotiate before that and I may have to face it all coming to nothing again.

Mum is still looking after herself - just. I know she desperately wants to stay at home as long as possible. I do worry if she is safe at home though. It was real eye opener to see her struggle to walk a few steps without falling over.

 

[Clare R]

If you have P of A for health and wealth, could you not speak to the bank and raise your concerns. My mum's building society were brilliant with her. We were concerned she was being taken advantage of financially. And they had dedicated staff to deal with dementia, with safeguarding policies in place.
We also got social services involved, a lot of the time we didn't necessarily tell my mum the full truth if we were trying to get her examined as she would dig her heels in, but the help she received whilst living on her own was great, until she was a liability when we had her move in with us.

It sounds like you have a battle with your brother too, which doesn't help. Good luck and I hope you are able to sort something out.

 

[Violet Jane]

In my area, the approach taken by SS is to apply what they term the fewest restrictions possible, which generally means starting with one or two fairly short care visits a day and building up from there. In my elderly friend's case, she started with two 30 minute visits a day, and the morning one was quickly lengthened to 45 minutes because the carer was regularly spending longer than 30 minutes with her. I pushed for a lunchtime visit of 30 minutes to be added. Later, a fourth (afternoon) visit was added and both the morning and evening visits were extended by 15 minutes. After numerous falls, and four admissions to hospital in the last two months, both the hospital and SS advised that my friend now needs 24-hour supervision, either live-in care at home or care in a residential home. My friend has a pendant alarm but never used it. Prior to the last admission SS were still saying that my friend could manage at home with care visits, perhaps with a fifth one, but I think that the latest admission was the straw that broke the camel's back. I strongly suspect that the hospital told SS that my friend could not keep coming into hospital every few days and that something more was needed.

We are now trying to arrange live-in care for my friend. It will be interesting to see whether this will reduce the the number of falls she has. Even if it doesn't, my friend won't be lying on the floor for an unknown length of time, and potentially for hours, because someone will always be there.

If the person is a self-funder then you can arrange whatever you want. In my friend's case, as we don't have a PoA for health and welfare (although my husband has one for property and financial affairs) we want the backing of SS for care that my friend receives and which she is paying for because there are distant relatives around.

 

[Duggies-girl]

They may well suggest a care package considering that she is alone and isolated, they may consider that she is unsafe and a danger to herself and that she should be in a care home but I do not know if they can enforce these things. It is most likely that your mum will muddle along until she has a fall, goes wandering and gets lost, sets the place on fire or some other catastrophe and ends up in hospital but if they do recommend a care package or a care home and your brother refuses because he says that she does not want this then it will be entirely his fault when the catastrophe happens.

If the POA arrives and you are able to get access to your mums account then you have the right to arrange a care package and also arrange for the payments to come straight from your mums bank regardless of what your brother thinks although actually doing this will upset your brother greatly but you can warn him beforehand. This will be very tricky for you and will probably be the end of any good will that you and your brother share at the moment. I think you are going to have problems if you try to do this but the alternative is not very good either.

If you were to arrange care for your mum and your brother stopped payments then I am sure that you could report it to the OPG

I think you have a very difficult task here as far as your brother is concerned but he needs to be held to account if something goes wrong. You are going to have to be very strong.

 

[Violet Jane]

It's very important to check the wording of the PoA before setting up payments from your mother's account. Some PoAs allow an attorney to make decisions on his/her own but others require both / all the attorneys to agree to something.

If SS recommend something that will give you ammunition against your brother as they have expertise in this area and your brother doesn't. It would be easier to make a complaint to the OPG if he ignored their advice. If SS advise something then ask them to confirm this in writing. This should be done anyway when they carry out a needs assessment.

 

[Alora]

Thanks for that Duggies’s girl.

i don’t think I’m strong enough to take on both a resentful Mum and angry brother to be honest. I want to help mum as much I can but I’m not sure I could do this my own.

 

[nita]

It's very important to check the wording of the PoA before setting up payments from your mother's account. Some PoAs allow an attorney to make decisions on his/her own but others require both / all the attorneys to agree to something.

If SS recommend something that will give you ammunition against your brother as they have expertise in this area and your brother doesn't. It would be easier to make a complaint to the OPG if he ignored their advice. If SS advise something then ask them to confirm this in writing. This should be done anyway when they carry out a needs assessment.

Yes, that's important as @Violet Jane says - how the attorneys can act. If it says "jointly and severally" it means each can act apart from the other. If not, then both attorneys have to agree.

Perhaps you shouldn't be afraid of upsetting your brother. Your mother will be angry in any case if you arrange any care for her - that is the nature of dementia - that the person can't accept there's anything wrong with them and that they don't need help and can do everything on their own. My mother sadly thought she could still go out on her bike when she was bed bound.

I would be interested in seeing the bank accounts. It all looks very suspicious and makes me wonder how your brother has been handling her money and what the statements reveal. (That might just be my suspicious mind!)

 

[Alora]

I live on my own no partner. I have children but I want to protect them from this and I don’t want to involve them.

I suppose I had a hope that (I’m probably naive) either a GP or SS would recommend something to make things easier and safer for mum and that my brother would have to accept it, end of. Even if I can pay for care for mum it would be easier if my brother supported me In this.

As Violet says he may have to accept SS recommendations.

As an attorney who benefits in inheritance it may look bad for him if he doesn’t agree?

 

[nita]

An LPA ceases when a person dies. Any beneficiaries of an estate are set out in a will if the person has made one. If they die intestate, the inheritance will be split according to set rules, i.e. between you and your brother as you are the next of kin.

 

[Alora]

Yes me too Nita!

how about this for suspicious behaviour.


1) bank statements not been shown to me - just spreadsheets after some pressure.

2) secretive, evasive, nervous but angry when money comes up.

3) Controlling any situation where money is being spent or would be spent on Mum without his permission

4) Making gifts to himself and me without his mum‘s knowledge. She doesn’t remember!

5). No post sent to mum’s house - I’m guessing all re-directed to his house

6). No money, card or cash for mum to spend. His excuse is that it’s not safe. I had to ask him to send her money.

7) an email to me showing capital in building societies in April but no names, accounts Numbers. - just a spreadsheet.

8). Intercepting any ideas about spending money on mum by getting to her first - even if it means travelling miles in a day. This has happened 3 times.

9). Social worker tells me my brother is the ‘aggressor and said he ‘doesn’t want to spend the money on mum’s care’

10). no money for emergencies or for Mum or to buy birthday or Christmas presents or buy her underwear/clothes/shoes. she gets food delivered, bills paid and, after some persuasion a new dishwasher and re pairs to her home.

. If he’s like this when he’s in control what’s he going to be like when I start drawing money out for mum if the poa lets me!. Hey ho I’ll just have to be strong

 

[Duggies-girl]

Thanks for that Duggies’s girl.

i don’t think I’m strong enough to take on both a resentful Mum and angry brother to be honest. I want to help mum as much I can but I’m not sure I could do this my own.

It's very hard, I have some experience of this and it doesn't go away after. I have no contact with my brother anymore, I am civil if I see him but that is it and I avoid it if I can. His behaviour towards his dad was similar to your brothers but he did not have POA, I did, thank heavens so I could ignore his irrational demands. These demands were fuelled by his wife who I can no longer stand the sight of.

Hopefully the GP and also the hospital doctor will report your mum as a safeguarding issue. If they do and this comes back to you then you will have to refer them to your brother and he can explain why he does not want to keep his mother safe. It will be his responsibility.

You are going to fall out with him whatever happens and when your mum is no longer here you will probably never hear from him again.

If I were you I would not discuss any of this with your mum, I would not mention care, care homes or GP's. Don't talk to her about your brother and what he thinks, just be on her side and agree with whatever she says.

God knows why your brother is acting like this unless it is about money, I would be suspicious too.

 

[Alora]

Druggies girl - thanks for your thoughts. How did you find out about his wife pushing your brother?