Mum needs help and my hands are tied.

[MartinWL]

The solicitor is wrong that lack of capacity has to be proven by a social worker of medical person. The law doesn't say that at all. He is most probably wanting proof to protect himself from any possible liability, which is perhaps understandable.

The solicitor cannot ascertain capacity by telephone. That would be wholly inadequate and we all know that people with dementia can put on a good act for a short time.

What the solicitor cannot know, and nobody knows, is whether your brother has done anything wrong. There are a number of possibilities that are unpleasant to think of but that have happened before to people:
1) He has spent the money for his own benefit, maybe holidays, wild women, and a very nice car. I am not saying this is likely.
2) He is simply conserving her money to maximise his inheritance. More common I should think.
3) Her is embarrassed about her finances, perhaps he invested her money honestly but unwisely and has lost it.

It seems pretty clear that your brother has something to hide, unfortunately. I am afraid I think that as a second attorney you do have a responsibility to find out what it is, otherise you could be critisised yourself for failing to take action.

I agree with @Violet Jane that he is failing in his duty as an attorney if he does not provide her with care that she needs and that she can afford. We don't know for sure what she can afford but plainly she needs better care than she receives and if it is true that she has substantial funds then these need to be used for her benefit in old age. This would be your grounds for a complaint to the OPG - it is the thing you can prove, whereas any suggestion that he has shut you out of her finances because of whatever it is that he is hiding, is just speculation at the moment.

 

[Alora]

what do you suggest I do? Write first to my brother for the reveal of finances or go to OPG? Or both?

what would you do?

 

[lollyc]

@Alora, you are most certainly not a wally. Even when everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet it can be an uphill struggle to get anything done. Give yourself a pat on the back for what you have already achieved.

Personally, I would wait until you have the copy POA from OPG.

Then register it with her bank, so that you know you can access at least one account. My worry is that your brother will try to thwart your plans on this, if he has a head's up. What you don't want is him contacting the bank and making it difficult - although they really shouldn't pay any attention.

Once you have it sorted, as the solictor suggests, contact your brother to arrange to see all your Mum's finances - NOT a speadsheet, proper statements - and advise him that you have the POA. If he refuses, tell him that you will report him to OPG. (Have a read of the process, so you can bombard him with all the details, and have the upper hand!)
It's true that OPG may not feel there is enough to warrant an investigation, but, from a quick read of OPG website, you don't need to be actively depriving a person of their assets. An attorney should act in the best interests of the person - carers, wheelchair, all the stuff your are desperately trying to do. Anyway, in reality, you just want your brother to work with you, don't you? Hopefully the threat of reporting will be enough for him to tow the line.


From what you have said, anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that your mum no longer has capacity to make sensible decisions about her welfare - so I wouldn't worry unduly about that.

Good luck!

what do you suggest I do? Write first to my brother for the reveal of finances or go to OPG? Or both?

what would you do?

 

[Violet Jane]

I agree with lollyc. Don't bother contacting your brother until you have put everything in place, or at least as much as possible. You want to be 'ahead of him'. You need a copy of the PoA for the bank to give you access to your mother's accounts.

I would start by having a good search of your house to see whether you can find a copy of the PoA. This should have been sent to you after it was registered with the OPG. If you can't find it then contact the OPG. They may require evidence of who you are before they send you a copy of it; you might need a solicitor for this (do not go back to your mother's solicitor).

I personally feel that the more important thing was to alert SS and the medical profession to your mother's situation, and you have done this. SS should be robust enough to take action if they find that your mother lacks capacity and your brother is deliberately depriving her of care and other things that she needs because he is refusing to pay for it. I think that they might be able to approach the OPG themselves.

 

[Alora]

Hi there

ive emailed the OPG requesting a copy. i won’t go back to Mum’s solicitor I feel he’s not bring objective.

Thats great advice lollyc.

some one said it’s like eating an elephant - small bites.

Although it may not work this time but I think I’ve got to keep chipping away.

the biggest hurdle is Mum accepting help as ill have to do this my own.

thank you all - you’ve so kind.

 

[Violet Jane]

I recommend looking at the section about lasting powers of attorney on the gov.uk website. The donor can actually remove an attorney but s/he must have capacity to do this. The section also tells you how to report a concern about an attorney.

 

[Alora]

Thank you ? for that but it’s down to the forum really.

i think it’s partly family dynamics a the deadly sin of greed that created this gorgon’s knot.

 

[Alora]

I’d seen it already Violet so that was why I was worried.

 

[Alora]

I suppose that was what my brother was going to do back in August 2020. By bringing a Solicitor to mum’s home Mum could say that we’d had a falling out and that she wanted to remove me with my brother pulling the sthings in the background. This must be on Mum’s file somewhere that she had doubts about me bring an attorney. That’s when I apologised to mum and I had email from my brother saying that I continue as an attorney. She didn’t understand what I was trying to do instead just thought I wanted her money. I’d never had a conversation with mum about it as I was trying to work with my brother to have more of a role. I didnt realise he was going to mum with his story.

Thats when our relationship started to fall apart.

I think it is quite easy to remove a poa it seems.

 

[Alora]

Although Canary has shown it’s well nigh impossible!

 

[nita]

I think you might have to pay for a copy of the LPA, @Alora . Why didn't you have one in the first place?

 

[Alora]

Ah I knew this would come up!.

my copy got destroyed by mistake when I moved but I’m happy to pay for it. I think it’s £35.00

 

[Alora]

I guess I trusted my brother and thought we were working together. I’d never bought subject up till a social worker hinted that things were amiss. By this time I’d moved and my stuff into store and a box with papers got lost. I’d searched for my copy of the LPA but it was gone. I just hope I can get another copy.

 

[MartinWL]

I would say getting a copy of the POA is your priority. It is possible that it has a special clause in it restricting you, for example you might only be able to act if your brother cannot. You need to be sure about this before confronting him. At the same time chase up social services.

 

[Lynmax]

I found the OPG very helpful when I phoned them about my own LPAs which I did online just last year. I had received the originals and was scanning them into my computer so I had a copy up in “the Cloud” when needed. My two children, my attorneys, were not sent copies, it appeared up to me to give them copies. I remember my mums solicitor making copies for me, I was not sent them from the OPG although I had a letter saying they were registered etc.

Anyway, after I scanned them, I stapled the copies together ready to post and discovered one page was missing! I went into panic mode as I did not check the originals properly when I received them. However, over the phone, I was able to get a copy of just the missing page, I think it’s a slightly different copy with a stamp on saying it’s an authorised copy? Then a few weeks later, when using the scanner again, I found the missing sheet underneath the scanner lid! So embarrassing!

If you don’t get a response from your email, I suggest phoning them, it was not a painful process even though the person I spoke to was working from home during the first lockdown.

 

[Banjomansmate]

If I remember correctly all the attorneys for The Banjoman saw the originals when it was sent to them to sign. Once it was registered the solicitor kept the original and I received one Certified copy for myself included in the fee and paid £25 each for any extra certified copies. I had to ask for a certified copy for his sister to use if ever I was unable to do so. She never took it to his bank to get it accepted.

 

[Alora]

good news - I rang the OPG, A case number is created and I get a call to pay £35.00 and the office copy is sent to me. There is a copy on file.

Now you say about the Clause Martin that sound’s familiar. If it’s that’s the case then that would explain the complete control of a lot of money with my brother communicating with a mentally failing mum exclusively and me having to run things past her if she needs anything.

No wonder my brother has so much power! He’s the last person to have this. He’s not had children, he leads a isolated existence with his wife, no friends, no social life and just goes to the gym. He worked for the Police and his idiom is ‘go by the evidence before you’. How can someone have complete control of £400,000 But with little experience of real life? Whereas I’ve brought three children up on my own, ran a home single handedly, ran my own business, socialised. It should have been me. I knew Mum better we lived next door to each other, holidayed together and she helped me bring my children up. I spent more time with my parents - they lived down the road from me - than he ever did. I saw them everyday when my dad was alive. My brother visited twice a year.

ive had respnse from the gp and go is going to visit her. I used Canary’s phrases - thank you !.

I know it’s jumping ahead but if there is such a Claushe/Clauses in place I guess my options are now very limited…except the nuclear solution of reporting my brother to the OPG?

Any thoughts?

thank you once again

 

[canary]

I know it’s jumping ahead but if there is such a Claushe/Clauses in place I guess my options are now very limited…except the nuclear solution of reporting my brother to the OPG?

Well done for getting the ball rolling

Wait until you know exactly what the POA says.
You cant plan for what you dont know and you may be worrying unnecessarily

 

[Violet Jane]

As Martin says, don’t make any assumptions about what the PoA says. Wait until you see it. Even if there is such a clause that doesn’t change the fact that, if your mother needs care, your brother should be using your mother’s money to pay for it. Ditto anything that your mother needs in the house. It’s her money and it should be spent on her, not hoarded for your brother’s inheritance.

 

[Sarasa]

I'm so glad you've managed to get the GP to agree to go and see your mother @Alora. Although getting the POA sorted is important the most important thing is making sure your mother gets the help she needs. The GP will not only be able to check her out, but if he' concerned about her living conditions report it to social services. Do you know when he's coming? It might be a good idea to be there if you can to ensure that he gains access to the house. Don't tell your mum though. I often arranged things for mum and didn't tell her till the doorbell rang. If I told her before hand she always wanted to cancel and I got a load of abuse about organising things she didn't want