Mum needs help and my hands are tied.

[Duggies-girl]

Haha @Just Jill You have made laugh out loud with 'had the audacity to go on holiday'

@Alora don't discuss it with your mum because she will say 'no' You are perfectly entitled to use the POA without her permission, that is it's purpose, for you to take over when she is unable to understand things. Just do it.

 

[Sarasa]

Good luck with the appointment today @Alora. I think the time has come to make sure your mother has what she needs not what she wants, so make sure all the medical professionals get a clear picture of what things are really like.
Wishing you strength to fight your mum's case.

 

[lollyc]

@Alora , does your Mum get Attendance Allowance? If not, you can apply on her behalf. Lower rate is around £53/wk, which could be used to pay for carers (not that it will go very far!) or a wheelchair. Your brother could not view that as decreasing your Mum's estate, if that is his issue.
Maybe tell your Mum that the carers are part of a free government scheme, to provide employment for people who lost jobs during covid, and that she would be "helping" them to improve their skills?

 

[Alora]

hi my dear friends

I took my mum to Hospital today for a growth on her face.

i called mum at 8:30 am this morning she’d forgotten the appointment and in bed. I said I’d be at her bungalow at 9:30 - just time to collect mum, get the hired wheelchair at 10 and get to hospital by 11 - I had it all planned. I rang her from outside, she answered and said she didn’t feel well and wanted to cancel. I was let in and it took half an hour to persuade her to go…almost childlike. I put some socks on her feet and found a pair of shoes that fitted over her 1 inch toenails and swollen feet. She’d not showered had not had breakfast, stained jumper. All the while saying she didn’t want to go and saying she needed her purse and where was her handbag. She chose the thinnest summer coat to wear and refused all winter coats she had.

So I had to miss the wheelchair collection to get to the hospital. Mum was convinced she could walk. She struggled to get out of car and could only walk a few paces, grunting and breathing heavily. So I had to leave her standing while I ran round trying to find a hospital wheelchair and she sat in it gladly. Thank goodness I had it.

I gave my letter to the dermatologist doctor at the end of the appointment. Mum has to go back and have her sore removed.

i had a long conversation with mum about the finances.

It started of with Mum offering to buy me a bed for Christmas - it’s so she can come stay with me over Christmas. We discussed how much to spend, what sort of bed she’d like. I explained to her it’s very difficult for me because she hasn’t access to her money and it’s best I just pay for it. She just kept saying that it’s her money and she can just go to the bank. I asked how she’d get there and she said she’d get a taxi and I said how would she pay for it as she had no cash or card. Mum just kept saying it’s her money and that my brother would pay for anything she wanted. I told her that I’ve found it difficult to get my brother to pay for anything I ask for on her account as I he says ‘it’s not what mum wants’. She seemed a bit nonplussed by that.

i explained again to her that her children are her LPAs and we should both have access to her funds to make life easier for her and I used the bed as an example. I suggested that we ask my brother to set up an account in my name with some of her money so that I can buy her personal stuff - underwear, get Christmas presents for her grandchildren . Mum said no that idea and said that I should go to my brother and ask him to pay if she’s given her permission. I asked if she trusted me and she said yes but she said that my brother was older and, being the man better at looking after her. We talked around it for a while and I could tell she was tired,

I asked if she was happy that she didn’t know what her son was doing her money, that she had no money of her own and was, in effect a prisoner in her home and beholden to her son. Mum doesn’t see it like that.

mum says she’s fairly happy with tea towels 20 years old, cracked cups, scruffy kitchen, rusting washing machine and that she’s old and tired.

All the suggestions I made about me being more than a gopher for Mum were batted back and couple times she did said that ‘he wouldn’t like it’ - my brother. I asked if she saw that she had re-created the life that she had with my father and she said liked it that a man ran the finances. She found it boring and tedious.

fFinally, we talked about the next appointment and I said I’d be very happy to take her and that I’d get a wheelchair for us. Mum refused point blank again - saying that would be the end for her. I told her that it’s challenging for us both without and she still refused. She said it’s too much for me to do, too far for my brother to come and that she’d get a bus or taxi. I asked how she’d pay for it and she said she‘s got loads of money and that she’d go to the bank. I asked how she’d get there and she said by taxi. I gave up at that point.

I guess it’s a hopeless case?

 

[canary]

Im afraid that your mums responses and the convoluted "logic" is typical of dementia.
Your mum has got to the point where someone has to over-ride her wishes and implement what she needs, but your brother isnt doing that. For whatever reason, he is taking what she says at face value and accepting her refusals.

I do hope your letter triggers some response.
xx

 

[Alora]

Is it worth following with the OPG/Solicitor as others have suggested?

 

[Violet Jane]

That sounds like a very stressful day for you. But the main thing is that you managed to get your mother to the appointment and hand the letter in. That is a great achievement in very difficult circumstances.

I’m afraid that your mother can no longer think rationally about things, which isn’t surprising as she has dementia. Whilst it’s natural to want to discuss things and get her agreement to things sometimes it’s better just getting on with what’s needed without reference to her as she willl just refuse. For example, I wouldn’t mention the wheelchair again to her. It just seems to upset or annoy her and telling her about it doesn’t achieve anything. Next time just put it in the boot and get it out when you arrive at your destination.

 

[Alora]

Thank you Canary and Violet Jane…god advice.

 

[Scarlet Lady]

Hi, @Alora . Well done on getting through a tough day with such a good outcome! I appreciate that you weren’t able to hand your letter over to the doctor till the end of the appointment, but I’m curious as to whether she/he gave any insight into your mum‘s skin condition and/or her general health and appearance?
I agree with others that discussing your mum‘s care and finances with her is probably pointless, but I can see how you were led into it by the suggestion that she would buy a bed so she could come to you for Christmas. In many ways, that’s quite a positive idea in terms of her relationship with you. Despite what she says, she may be more dependent on you than you think. Many women of her generation were brought up to believe that men knew best, certainly about finance and that they should always be deferred to. As you’ve suggested, that seems to be the relationship she had with your father and has now unfortunately passed that mantle on to your brother. My late mother was of a similar ilk, but luckily my brother and I are best friends and have always understood our relationship with both our parents. We’ve unstintingly worked together and supported each other throughout. I know others are not so fortunate.
Alora, you might have to wait a while for a response to your letter to the hospital consultant, so in the meantime, it wouldn’t hurt to discuss your brother‘s behaviour in general terms with a solicitor. If you do need to contact the OPG, it may be as well to keep your powder dry until you hopefully can get some backup from the medical profession/social services regarding your mother’s overall situation. To be honest, I suspect that a letter from the OPG and the legal profession would give your brother the shock of his life!

 

[lollyc]

I

Thank you Canary and Violet Jane…god advice.

I have to agree with @Violet Jane , discussion with your mum probably seems the right thing to do, but actually it just causes more confusion and upset and achieves nothing.

I don't think the setting up an account in your name is a good idea. If you register POA with her bank they will give you a card (and possibly cheque book) with your name it on, but the account remains you mum's. The bank won't check with your brother before allowing this - the POA gives you the right to do this. My sister doesn't live very close to us, so she went to her local branch to set this up. It really is very straighforward. As others have said, the solicitor who did the POA should be able to arrange a certified copy for you - assuming your brother has the original.
Is your brother accessing mum's account with POA, or is he simply using her card, and effectively "pretending" to be mum? I'm not sure that is legal - but I'm no lawyer.

With regard to the next appointment - don't mention it to your mum. Arrange to visit on the day, with wheelchair in car, get her in the car and go. Don't discuss, explain, just get on with it. @canary is absolutely right - dementia simply doesn't do logic, and the time has come to do what mum needs, not what she wants.

Sorry, it's so tough, and you need to adjust your mindset, because it seems so wrong to dictate to a parent.

 

[Banjomansmate]

Were you given a date for the next appointment or are they going to write to your Mum? If so you may never be told the new date. Maybe you can see if the hospital will send a copy of the letter to you or at least inform you of the date if you explain that she cannot go without your assistance.

 

[Alora]

hello,

thank you for your advice Banjomansmate, lollyc, scarlet lady,

 

[Alora]

No date given but I will call and ask for s copy of the letter.

 

[Alora]

do I have to get my mum’s permission to apply for attendance allowance?

i did apply for something for mum about 4 years ago (I can’t remember what - but the normal thing that everyone applies for. ) but I had to put Alzheimer’s on the form which I knew mum would not be happy about this and my brother said it would come up on the bank statements if I didn’t tell mum and she’d see and get upset. so I didn’t apply. This is how things have been since my brother retired and took mum’s affairs.


For the solicitor


My brother (since I moved away) looks after mum’s welfare and affairs.

He does most things online/remotely and visits every 6 weeks. We did have a discussion about Mum having a cleaner to come in once a week which I was going to broach to mum. I’d mentioned it my brother as he pays the bills. Within 24 hours he’d driven 100 miles (200 miles round trip) to to speak to her and asked me if I wanted to ‘join the meeting’. I couldn’t go as I was working. I got an email that same day saying that Mum doesn’t want any help and that only family could go to her home.

I’d spoken to social care the day before as I was worried about the hygiene in mum’s home - dirty toilet, no washing done, stained clothes ect and they suggested trying to get my brother onside with the idea of a cleaner.

He suggested that if the state of Mum’s home doesn’t come up my standards then we arrange a rota between us and do Mum‘s housework together. I did show willing by getting the hoover out last Sunday when I visited but it was broken. Mum’s place is reasonable and she’s happy with it and that’s the most important thing.

There’s been instances where my brother got in first. When a social worker got involved and wanted to call and see Mum that’s when the call barring was put on by him and the social worker couldn’t speak to mum or she didn’t answer. Her case stayed open till September when my brother told them that mum was okay and nothing to worry about.

Every time I make waves it bounces back on me and I‘m made out to be the untrustworthy villain with Mum. Itry very hard not to get involved and that’s why I moved away. It’s painful seeing mum on her own.

I’ve tried involving social care but they call Mum she says she’s’ okay and that’s’ it. If I’ve contacted the GP they’ve sent a paramedic who said she’s okay (4 years ago). I I would just like Mum to be assessed to see if she can still make decisions on her own but that’s not happened. I’m just concerned how much influence my brother has on Mum.

Mum is confident in her own home and on a great display when people arrive…smiling, talkative. Totally different to the quiet, withdrawn, deaf and unresponsive person that I took to Hospital yesterday, who could barely walk, get out of the car, who seemed exhausted. I made the decision for her treatment yesterday (a big responsibility) no one else. I gave her the choices the dr had given and she could not make up her mind i did it for her. There is no Health and Welfare LPA in place. `Yet I have to go ‘cap in hand’ to my brother for money for Mum and I have no involvement in Mum’s affairs although I’m the other LPA. I was one that organised the dr’s appointment - I don’t think my brother would have done anything about mum’s general health. He just does the bare minimum he can.

Mum has made it clear that she only wants my brother to run her affairs as she trusts him, he’s the oldest and the man but it’s a bizarre situation where my brother refuses to do anything without mum‘s knowledge and consent and this applies to me. Mum has no money of her own and no access to funds. Although she can barely walk, can’t use the phone to make calls, she physically cannot leave her home without support. Now needs to use a wheelchair for hospital visits but has no paid care at 96.

Mum lives in a remote area with no neighbours. She is totally reliant on my brother for food deliveries and we live some distance away. My brother is in his seventies and there is no plan in place if he should be taken ill. There is no plans for when Mum needs care and all my brother will say is ‘we’ll get round a table to discuss it when it happens’.



How does this sound if I put this to a Solicitor?

 

[Duggies-girl]

Well I don't know about how it will sound to a solicitor, maybe others can answer that. I think I would be putting it a whole lot stronger and I am not sure that a solicitor is the right move. It will cost you money and just for a letter. I would report him here to the OPG

Report a concern about an attorney, deputy or guardian

Contact the Office of the Public Guardian if you have concerns about an attorney, deputy, guardian or a decision they've made for someone else

www.gov.uk

If the link doesn't work it is on the GOV UK site

Your brother is talking out of his backside.

i did apply for something for mum about 4 years ago (I can’t remember what - but the normal thing that everyone applies for. ) but I had to put Alzheimer’s on the form which I knew mum would not be happy about this and my brother said it would come up on the bank statements if I didn’t tell mum and she’d see and get upset. so I didn’t apply. This is how things have been since my brother retired and took mum’s affairs.

Of course you can apply without your mums permission, she has dementia and you have POA, that is what it is for. It will not come up as anything on the bank statement other than a payment of ££ from the DWP and probably AA for Attendance Allowance You can tell her it is an extra pension for reaching 96 years old or something similar. You will need mums bank account details to apply. Good luck with that.

I really think your brother has no idea at all about what his role as POA requires. His behaviour is not that of a normal person and he should be removed because he is not fulfilling his role whether he thinks he is or not. I think that you are going to fall out with your brother whatever happens or more likely that he will fall out with you. Does he actually care about anyone other than himself.

Stop trying to explain everything to your mum, it just creates more problems for you.

 

[Moggymad]

Like @Duggies-girl I too remember you from before. I recall a problem with your mum's heating one winter & S/S getting involved due to your brothers unwillingness to co-operate.
Personally I would report the current situation again to safeguarding. All the facts are here in your posts & there is history of neglect. The Consultant hopefully will also follow through.
Whatever course you take it does look like you & your brother will clash but I agree he is not acting properly & that's putting it mildly.
As far as AA is concerned, yes she should be eligible but quite honestly I wouldn't be too concerned with pursuing that at the moment there are far more important issues that are more urgent. In any case it will be paid into the same account with her pension which as things stand she will not see the benefit of.
To be blunt I feel your mum is suffering neglect at the hands of your brother & it needs reporting.

 

[MartinWL]

My brother is in his seventies and there is no plan in place if he should be taken ill.

If your brother were ill or abducted by aliens, you are also an attorney and you would be able to manage your mother's affairs.

 

[silkiest]

Hi @Alora,
I would ask the solicitor who set up your mums POA for a certified copy for yourself. There will be a cost for this. If the solicitor refuses then you will need to contact the OPG for an"office copy" citing why it is needed.
Once you have this proof you can use it to approach any financial institution that you can find out that your mum uses.
Many banks will let more than 1 person act on a bank account if they have POA. I am the only one with bank cards and internet access for my parents accounts as my brother did not want to do it, but the bank told me all he had to do was contact them and go through the same process that I had. If you know which bank it is I would ring their helpline and ask for the POA department and they can advise on the banks policies and next steps. You don't actually have to manage her accounts if everything is in order - but you do need to know what is going on. Request a bank card and use it for your mums benefit.
If I was in a similar situation I would be visiting just before my brothers next scheduled visit so there should be nearly 6 weeks worth of mail to check through, if I found nothing then I would be visiting again in another 6 weeks. Take photographs of everything if you don't want to remove it. I would be checki n drawers , desks etc for all the documents I can find. Use any excuse you can think of eg a simple I'm going to the bathroom' then have a good look around. You need to satisfy yourself that everything is in order and discussing this with your mum is not the way to go.
I do wonder if your brother is not doing anything to help your mum if he could be struggling himself. Does he have any health issues? Could he be in the early stages of dementia himself?
Once you have access to the funds how about a pamper day - book your mum in to see a chiropodist to cut those very long nails and to see a hairdresser. My MIL does not wash her own hair and refuses to let me or the carers do it as she believes she does it regularly, but she does enjoy a trip to the hairdresser.

 

[lollyc]

I'm not clear if you actually have POA documents in your hands, (or indeed if your brother is actually using it)? If not, priority is to get hold of the solicitor who arranged it (I'm assuming a solicitor did it), and get yourself a ceritfied copy. They are not going to notify your brother, and you have every right to have these.

I think any complaint about your brother's conduct in relation to your mum's affairs should be addressed to OPG, I can't see what a solIcitor would do about it.

Please don't discuss these things with your mum. I know you feel you should, but she is beyond logical thinking, and it is just muddying the waters. You know what your mum needs - we are way beyond what she wants now.

It may be worth trying to get another SS assessment. Explain that your mother can't take phone calls (her phone is blocked) insist that she is visited and make sure that you are there when she is assessed. On the day, don't wash her, dress her etc. - SS need to see her normal life. That said, as she would be self-funding, they may be very reluctant - you will need to use words like "vulnerable adult" and "duty of care". If all else fails you could call anonymously.
Failing that, use your POA to organise a carer (maybe just a couple of hours to start with), and make sure you are there to let them in etc.

As @MartinWL has pointed out, - if your brother is too ill, dies, or is abducted. you have to be able to pick up the reins , which means you have to know what is going on.
I mainly deal with Mum's finances, as she lives with me. My sister is registered on a current account and a B/S account - if I die tomorrow she can access these monies immediately. She also has details of all the other accounts that Mum has (passwords, acc. numbers etc.), so she could register her POA to access these, if required.

 

[MartinWL]

I think the solicitor could be helpful in going through the detaills, and perhaps drafting the complaint to the OPG. He might also know bank details.