Mum needs help and my hands are tied.
- Thread starter Alora
- Start date
Good morning
I’ve got a copy of the poa and here are the conditions:-
When do you want your attorneys to be able to make decisions?
x As soo as my LPA has been registered (and also when I don‘t have capacity).
while you still have mental capacity, your attorneys can only act with your consent. if you later lose capacity, they can continue to act on your behalf for all decisions covered by this LPA.
This option is useful if you are able to make your own decisions but there’s another reason you want your attorney’s to help you ie ….or if you have a physical condition that makes it difficult to visit a bank, talk on the phone or sign documents.
How do you want your attorneys to work together?
x. Jointly and severally
I’ve got a copy of the poa and here are the conditions:-
When do you want your attorneys to be able to make decisions?
x As soo as my LPA has been registered (and also when I don‘t have capacity).
while you still have mental capacity, your attorneys can only act with your consent. if you later lose capacity, they can continue to act on your behalf for all decisions covered by this LPA.
This option is useful if you are able to make your own decisions but there’s another reason you want your attorney’s to help you ie ….or if you have a physical condition that makes it difficult to visit a bank, talk on the phone or sign documents.
How do you want your attorneys to work together?
x. Jointly and severally
We both went with Mum in November 2015 to get the LPA registered. Sad to see Mum’s perfect signature then and how she is now.
I never received a copy of this LPA! I was given a typewritten A4 piece of paper listing details of it. My signature was witnessed by the solicitor but my brother’s is witnessed by his neighbour…so I guess he’s got a copy and I didn’t get one. I’m so stupid and trusting, I should had a copy so I could have taken mum to the bank for money. I didn’t know.
My brother should have given me copies of her accounts so I could have on drawn on it for her. No wonder she was frustrated and cross that she had no money. I’ve been a trusting fool.
Where do I go from here please?
Sorry I’m upset - I feel Mum and me have been royally betrayed.
I never received a copy of this LPA! I was given a typewritten A4 piece of paper listing details of it. My signature was witnessed by the solicitor but my brother’s is witnessed by his neighbour…so I guess he’s got a copy and I didn’t get one. I’m so stupid and trusting, I should had a copy so I could have taken mum to the bank for money. I didn’t know.
My brother should have given me copies of her accounts so I could have on drawn on it for her. No wonder she was frustrated and cross that she had no money. I’ve been a trusting fool.
Where do I go from here please?
Sorry I’m upset - I feel Mum and me have been royally betrayed.
E
Jointly and severally means you don't need to have your brother's consent either. I'm not saying don't tell him, but nor do you need him to rubberstamp your requestes to pay for mum's things.
Did you find out where your mum banks? If so, get to your nearest branch and arrange to set up your POA for that account. You can then start buying mum new mugs, tea-towels and clothes, and think about carers, although worth waiting to see what SS does on that score.
Excellent. I think it has been established that your Mum does not have capacity.
Jointly and severally means you don't need to have your brother's consent either. I'm not saying don't tell him, but nor do you need him to rubberstamp your requestes to pay for mum's things.
Did you find out where your mum banks? If so, get to your nearest branch and arrange to set up your POA for that account. You can then start buying mum new mugs, tea-towels and clothes, and think about carers, although worth waiting to see what SS does on that score.
So it's much as we thought - he was completely wrong to shut you out. I understand how you're feeling because my brother tried to do the same. Had to threaten to report him to the OPG unless he shared all the financial info.
I think it's time you had a proper talk with your brother. You need to confront him over the LPA and how he's denied you access. Insist he shares all details now or.... OPG. Also, if you haven't already done so you need to make him aware of the consultant's confirmation that your mum no longer has capacity. If I were you, I would give your brother the chance to make things right and allow you to act for your mum too and get her the things she needs. If that's possible you can perhaps draw a line under what has happened and - somehow - work together from now on. Of course, if he won't co-operate you'll just have to get tough.
I'm afraid I remain very resentful towards my brother for trying to shut me out and claiming he had the right to do so. I expect you feel much the same, but it's worth putting those feelings aside if it means you can work together going forwards.
I think it's time you had a proper talk with your brother. You need to confront him over the LPA and how he's denied you access. Insist he shares all details now or.... OPG. Also, if you haven't already done so you need to make him aware of the consultant's confirmation that your mum no longer has capacity. If I were you, I would give your brother the chance to make things right and allow you to act for your mum too and get her the things she needs. If that's possible you can perhaps draw a line under what has happened and - somehow - work together from now on. Of course, if he won't co-operate you'll just have to get tough.
I'm afraid I remain very resentful towards my brother for trying to shut me out and claiming he had the right to do so. I expect you feel much the same, but it's worth putting those feelings aside if it means you can work together going forwards.
I have to say here that I was the only one to receive a Certified Copy of The Banjoman’s LPAs, but then I was the one he asked to be his attorney. His family members, who lived miles away, were only added at my suggestion to cover myself (nobody could claim he’d been coerced into donating it to me) and for somebody to take over either temporarily or permanently if anything happened to me.
Any extra Certified copies we had to ask and pay for.
Any extra Certified copies we had to ask and pay for.
Well at least you know where you stand @Alora I agree with the others, let your brother know you have the LPA and also what the the doctors have said about your mums capacity. Tell him that you need to know about her accounts and that you must have access to the accounts as fellow POA This gives him the chance to redeem himself. He has treated you and your mum badly, hopefully he will realise this now and be more helpful. I understand that you feel betrayed and he has behaved dreadfully but for your mums sake it would be better if you can remain amicable with him although I suspect that his behaviour will eat away at you in the long run and your relationship will never be good.
Then access your mums accounts and you will be able to treat your mum, set up carers and whatever else you need to do. Your mum can have some money in her purse and you will be able to put a bit of petrol in your car.
Well done and I hope there are no unpleasant surprises waiting for you.
Then access your mums accounts and you will be able to treat your mum, set up carers and whatever else you need to do. Your mum can have some money in her purse and you will be able to put a bit of petrol in your car.
Well done and I hope there are no unpleasant surprises waiting for you.
OK, so its a standard POA with no special conditions.
I would guess that your brother started controlling your mums finances when she still had capacity and with her consent.
She has now been confirmed as no longer having capacity, so your mum no longer has to give her consent and its time to organise what she needs rather than what she wants. It also means that she can no longer change her POA, so you cant be removed by anybody other than the Office of Public Guardians and no one can be added. Either you or your brother can now deal with her finances, but I agree with J&F that it would be better if you could reach agreement (and that doesnt mean you just completely agree with him).
There is still the issue of the Safeguarding referral. I would take your POA to your mums GP so that they know that you hold POA too and they may well be willing to talk to you. They will receive a letter from the consultant who would have told them that your mum no longer has capacity and is being referred to safeguarding, so if you present yourself to them with your POA you may well be able to get them to deal with you rather than your brother.
I would guess that your brother started controlling your mums finances when she still had capacity and with her consent.
She has now been confirmed as no longer having capacity, so your mum no longer has to give her consent and its time to organise what she needs rather than what she wants. It also means that she can no longer change her POA, so you cant be removed by anybody other than the Office of Public Guardians and no one can be added. Either you or your brother can now deal with her finances, but I agree with J&F that it would be better if you could reach agreement (and that doesnt mean you just completely agree with him).
There is still the issue of the Safeguarding referral. I would take your POA to your mums GP so that they know that you hold POA too and they may well be willing to talk to you. They will receive a letter from the consultant who would have told them that your mum no longer has capacity and is being referred to safeguarding, so if you present yourself to them with your POA you may well be able to get them to deal with you rather than your brother.
I would be inclined to access the bank accounts first to see what has been going on. It will be impossible to work with your brother if he has misused your mother’s money. I worry that if he gets wind of the fact that you have a copy of the PoA and will be looking at the accounts he might take some money.
Thsnk you Canary j&f and everyone - you’ve all been amazing and I’m eternally grateful.
If nothing else this thread will show others not to be complacent where money, dementia and LPA‘s concerned. .even if it is your family.
just got the AA forms to do for now and the email to my brother.…I wonder what his reaction will be - what do you think Jaded?
Ive been doing some research and it looks like mum is at the middle stage so it looks like four carers a day what do you think or do I just wait for sw to assess and suggest a package? Or as Mum can’t walk far and is nearly 96 would residential care be suggested?
I’m moving back to where I came from which is about 10 miles from mum would this make a difference? My mum and brother keep asking when am I moving!
If nothing else this thread will show others not to be complacent where money, dementia and LPA‘s concerned. .even if it is your family.
just got the AA forms to do for now and the email to my brother.…I wonder what his reaction will be - what do you think Jaded?
Ive been doing some research and it looks like mum is at the middle stage so it looks like four carers a day what do you think or do I just wait for sw to assess and suggest a package? Or as Mum can’t walk far and is nearly 96 would residential care be suggested?
I’m moving back to where I came from which is about 10 miles from mum would this make a difference? My mum and brother keep asking when am I moving!
Hi Violet - that’s the problem I don’t know anything about mum’s accounts - I’ve asked many times and just shown spreadsheets of building society accounts once a year.
I believe mum has a Halifax account with about 18k in (I saw a bank statement once) and i was going to call them later to see what they are prepared to tell me.
I believe mum has a Halifax account with about 18k in (I saw a bank statement once) and i was going to call them later to see what they are prepared to tell me.
Can you have snoop around when you next visit mum, and see if there are any bank letters about? I don't know how well a bank would take a "does this person bank here?" query, but maybe that's my suspicious mind! Does your mum still have bank cards, even though she no longer uses them?
To be honest, I think your mum would be best off in care. Even you being much nearer wouldn't be 24hr care, which I suspect is what she really needs. You would also be very tied to your mum, and might find it difficult to balance work and her needs. However, trying to persuade mum and brother might be tricky. I would be inclined to wait for SS assessment, as this will give you ammunition if your brother becomes difficult. He can't say you are insisting on care that mum doesn't need.
To be honest, I think your mum would be best off in care. Even you being much nearer wouldn't be 24hr care, which I suspect is what she really needs. You would also be very tied to your mum, and might find it difficult to balance work and her needs. However, trying to persuade mum and brother might be tricky. I would be inclined to wait for SS assessment, as this will give you ammunition if your brother becomes difficult. He can't say you are insisting on care that mum doesn't need.
I've no idea how your brother will react but whatever he does will give you some big clues as to how things will go in the future. I imagine he will still argue that mum has capacity to say what she wants but the truth is she can say it but really doesn't understand the consequences. That's the bit your brother needs to understand too and I really don't think he 'gets' dementia at all.
He's going to be defensive and I imagine it will be much along the lines of, 'I was only doing what mum said she wanted.' Which you could counter with, 'That may have been appropriate in the past but now mum has lost capacity it no longer is. We have to act in her best interests.' He could even get uppity (lovely word) and say, 'Right then - if you're going to be like that, you can do everything in future.' Maybe you could agree that he takes a break whle you put things in place. I just really hope that he has simply been difficult and controlling all this time and hasn't helped himself to your mum's money... As you don't know where her accounts are, I'm not sure what you can do to make sure he tells you everything. Anyone got any ideas?
Re. carers/care home - best to wait for the assessment. Or they may suggest a care home as your mum would be self funding. What do you think would be best for her at the stage she's at? Getting carers at home is all very well if the person accepts them but it's unlikely your mum would. With the consultant onside, it might make more sense to move her to a CH - you should certainly start checking out possible places.
He's going to be defensive and I imagine it will be much along the lines of, 'I was only doing what mum said she wanted.' Which you could counter with, 'That may have been appropriate in the past but now mum has lost capacity it no longer is. We have to act in her best interests.' He could even get uppity (lovely word) and say, 'Right then - if you're going to be like that, you can do everything in future.' Maybe you could agree that he takes a break whle you put things in place. I just really hope that he has simply been difficult and controlling all this time and hasn't helped himself to your mum's money... As you don't know where her accounts are, I'm not sure what you can do to make sure he tells you everything. Anyone got any ideas?
Re. carers/care home - best to wait for the assessment. Or they may suggest a care home as your mum would be self funding. What do you think would be best for her at the stage she's at? Getting carers at home is all very well if the person accepts them but it's unlikely your mum would. With the consultant onside, it might make more sense to move her to a CH - you should certainly start checking out possible places.
If he has spent mum’s money then we’d have to sell mum’s home to pay for care then I guess?
Ive just had a call from my daughter - whose very close to mum - same town - she just visited to check on her for me. Apparently mum has fallen at the door and hurt her thigh. I don’t think this is first time I’ve seen bruises before. I guess the time has come.
Ive just had a call from my daughter - whose very close to mum - same town - she just visited to check on her for me. Apparently mum has fallen at the door and hurt her thigh. I don’t think this is first time I’ve seen bruises before. I guess the time has come.
It is possible to trace lost bank accounts or forgotten bank accounts but her accounts are neither lost nor forgotten.
Your brother knows exactly what bank accounts she has and I think he has been extremely sneaky about this
Your brother knows exactly what bank accounts she has and I think he has been extremely sneaky about this
Best thing. How he reacts will tell you how you need to handle this. Dont jump the gun.
I would wait for SS to carry out a needs assessment and advise what your mother needs. If your mother hasn’t been having any care SS may well start with two visits a day and see how that works. If she falls / is at risk of falling they will try to persuade her to wear a pendant alarm.
SS may carry out their own capacity assessment though. Remember that capacity is decision specific so she could have capacity about having carers in but lack capacity to manage her finances.
SS may carry out their own capacity assessment though. Remember that capacity is decision specific so she could have capacity about having carers in but lack capacity to manage her finances.
Btw, I thought that your mother lived in a remote area but you have just said that your daughter lives in the same town as her……….
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