Nursing home placement at risk due to family behaviour

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
Hi all

Parent in nursing home, advanced dementia, limited communication.

Home have advised considering giving notice, bnot because they are unable to provide the care or any problems with my mum but due to relentless complaints by non-LPA holding child against myself who solely holds both LPA's.

Mum from diagnosis and throughout dementia journey always expressed the wish if she needed to go a care home it should be in the countryside so could enjoy looking out at the views, as had lived whole life in the countryside, hated towns and had never enjoyed socialising. Wishes are recorded frequently by numerous care professionals over several years. Mum had a number of close friends who would speak to regularly on the phone but no regular visits. She always hated larger gatherings, quite shy and didn't like a lot of noise.

It was difficult to find a placement due to additional complex care needs, but one finally came up in the countryside but no views from the lounges nor available bedroom at the time. Request made on admission that when a room came up with a view to move. Room with a view came up few months ago and move offered immediately. Given the short daylight hours, as LPA I requested a trial of a couple of hours in room during the day to see how it went. On the very first day of this trial sibling arrived and immediately started complaining that I was intentionally isolating mum and has continued with this despite the nursing home advising that mum appears to be enjoying the extra time in her room. Even with the daylight hours now increasing, I believe she is benefitting from being able to look at the window and from the quiet of her own room.

Complaints also includes saying that I have been abusing mum for years and that Social Services just ignore him. As a result of complaints I was investigated and cleared. Sibling took to the head of Safeguarding and to the Independent Government Ombudsman who upheld findings. He is very angry that mum didn't ask him to be her LPA and says that I manipulated her. Quite simply, he rarely visited her, always saying he was too busy and I was the one who did provide her with help and support so I was the natural choice. When he did visit her, he kept trying to get her to move into a care home close to him in the town in which he lives and would get angry with her for staying in a house he considered too big for her and wasting her money in doing so. It wasn't actually until she had care at home that he did start to visit more regularly.

His complaints are not just impacting upon the management in responding to the emails but now impacting upon the morale of staff in the home as a result of his visits, which are regular, and I have been advised if this continues then they will have to consider evicting mum even though they are well able to take care of her needs. She displays no challenging behaviours and smiles a lot when staff interact with her / involved in her personal care so in herself she is a pretty 'easy' resident to take care of.

I am really worried about a potential move. Where it would be, how good the home, how she would cope, being re-registered with new SP Surgery, etc, etc? I view this one as being excellent and mum seems happy and content. In fact he has said he has no complaints against the home just about my continuing abuse of her and seeing her visits to her room being further abuse by me.

I've seen really positive things since visiting her in her room. She does look out of the window and she says things that are appropriate to what she is seeing. In the lounge areas if she spoke it was often random with neither staff or myself being able to work out what she was talking about / referring to, so this to me is a really positive thing. Brother has refused to experience spending time with her in her room on his visits to observe her there. He absolutely refuses to discuss anything with me about her care given his refusal to accept I have LPA's. All I have been doing is keeping him informed by email of any health changes, medications, etc, despite him mostly not even having the courtesy to acknowledge them.

Despite Safeguarding investigations really not being a pleasant experience, regardless of knowing you are innocent of the accusations made, but I am actually feeling that instead of Social Services keep ignoring him, which seems to be making him more and more angry that they perhaps need to get involved. The Nursing home themselves said to me they feel it is becoming a Safeguarding concern given her placement could be at risk.

The reality is though, how would anyone stop him causing all this trouble, bar stopping him having any contact with her? I don't believe she knows who any family members are anymore, but is able to recognise familiar faces. She appears really happy, does still say she loves me but she hasn't said my name in a very long time and I don't think she knows that I am her daughter. So I believe she gets enjoyment from family visits although doubtful remembers upon my leaving and therefore don't like the idea that his visits / contact is stopped. This has gone on for so many years now and appears an obsession of his with not having control. He can become be very frightening when he loses his temper when not getting his own way (throughout his life). There are no reports that he has lost his temper at the home, although he did lose his temper at the Best Interest meeting as he objected to her being placed in this home and wanted her in a home he had chosen, sandwiched between a busy road and factory in a town. Fortunately the Best Interest meeting was online and his wife intervened so it was relatively short. He also blatantly lies to support his thinking. An example to support him wanting her in a care home in town near him, he has said such things as 'she hasn't always lived in the countryside' which is crazy particularly because it can be proved where she has lived during her life although Social Services never seem interested in actually checking facts.

I'm not sure there is an answer and even if mum was moved, I have no doubt he would continue the same way. If I asked the nursing home to no longer take her to her room, that would be taking away something she clearly enjoys so don't want to do that purely as a result of his behaviour. To even claim isolation when mum still spends the majority of the day in a lounge with others makes his accusations even more ridiculous and not a surprise that he has complained Social Services are ignoring him.

Has anyone experienced anything similar and have any suggestions?
 

SeaSwallow

Volunteer Moderator
Oct 28, 2019
6,756
0
@Savannah I really do not know how to advise you, this is such an awful position for you to be in.
I am wondering if the helpline would be able to advise you and have attached their details below.

 

Sarasa

Volunteer Host
Apr 13, 2018
7,433
0
Nottinghamshire
I'm sorry that such a difficult situation has brought you here, but I too agree that contacting the helpline would be a good idea.
From time to time we have people on here upset that they have been stopped from visiting a family member in their care home by the person who has the LPA, so that is something you could potentially do. I agree, however, that stopping your brother visiting probably won't stop the problems as he'll probably just raise more complaints against you. Could you contact his wife directly and explain that if he carries on the way he has been doing your mother is likely to lose her place in this care home and get her to lay on the line exactly the effect his behaviour is having. You could also send him an email saying the same thing.
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
@Savannah I really do not know how to advise you, this is such an awful position for you to be in.
I am wondering if the helpline would be able to advise you and have attached their details below.

Thank you SeaSwallow
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
I'm sorry that such a difficult situation has brought you here, but I too agree that contacting the helpline would be a good idea.
From time to time we have people on here upset that they have been stopped from visiting a family member in their care home by the person who has the LPA, so that is something you could potentially do. I agree, however, that stopping your brother visiting probably won't stop the problems as he'll probably just raise more complaints against you. Could you contact his wife directly and explain that if he carries on the way he has been doing your mother is likely to lose her place in this care home and get her to lay on the line exactly the effect his behaviour is having. You could also send him an email saying the same thing.
Thanks. I don't think he will engage. I sent am email to him a couple of weeks ago now, updating him on conversation with GP following medication change and requested if you would advice me if he has any concerns over mum's health & welfare. He hasn't acknowledged my email at all, which is normal for him. Even during several best interest meetings we had, he refused to engage directly with me. He just doesn't respect the LPA and therefore isn't willing to engage with me.

I spoke to Safeguarding who advised that it's the placement at risk rather than mum, albeit I think it could likely cause her harm to be moved but felt that I should request a Social Worker be allocated as a mediator. Again, not confident that this will work given previous refusals to attend non-best interest meetings that involve myself. Prior to this Social Services Area Practice Manager was directly involved (ie. when mum had only just moved to the 'room with a view') discussed the situation individually with my brother and I and this is where after a few weeks I received the feedback that Social Services saw no issue with the additional couple of hours in her room. So I have gone back to the Practice Manager and he is going to be discussing directly the further issues with the nursing home directly and then considering allocation of a Social Worker.

The Safeguarding line also suggested I might try a call to the Office of the Public Guardian and see what advice they may give, but from calls I have made in the past always been advised that they give general advice.

I suppose in the event all else fails and I receive a notice letter from the home, I could at that point, having no choice but allow her to be moved, ask if I was to stop his visits if they would allow her to remain there. At that point she would be, as far as I am concerned, at risk of being moved.

I will though contact the helpline and I have just thought there are independent advocacies who can provide representation so shall look at doing that too next week. Many thanks
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
@Savannah I really do not know how to advise you, this is such an awful position for you to be in.
I am wondering if the helpline would be able to advise you and have attached their details below.

Thanks
 

Louise7

Volunteer Host
Mar 25, 2016
4,965
0
Hi @Savannah sorry to hear about your situation, it must be so stressful for you. I wonder if it might be helpful to seek advice from Care Rights UK? They have a lot of experience of all issues care related so may have dealt with a similar situation before. They are contactable via phone or you can book a 30 minute slot to discuss your issues:

 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
Hi @Savannah sorry to hear about your situation, it must be so stressful for you. I wonder if it might be helpful to seek advice from Care Rights UK? They have a lot of experience of all issues care related so may have dealt with a similar situation before. They are contactable via phone or you can book a 30 minute slot to discuss your issues:

Thank you Louise
 

Louise7

Volunteer Host
Mar 25, 2016
4,965
0
Best of luck and keep us posted, I really hope that this issue can be resolved without your mum needing to move to another care home.
 

phill

Registered User
Aug 8, 2007
81
0
Hi all

Parent in nursing home, advanced dementia, limited communication.

Home have advised considering giving notice, bnot because they are unable to provide the care or any problems with my mum but due to relentless complaints by non-LPA holding child against myself who solely holds both LPA's.

Mum from diagnosis and throughout dementia journey always expressed the wish if she needed to go a care home it should be in the countryside so could enjoy looking out at the views, as had lived whole life in the countryside, hated towns and had never enjoyed socialising. Wishes are recorded frequently by numerous care professionals over several years. Mum had a number of close friends who would speak to regularly on the phone but no regular visits. She always hated larger gatherings, quite shy and didn't like a lot of noise.

It was difficult to find a placement due to additional complex care needs, but one finally came up in the countryside but no views from the lounges nor available bedroom at the time. Request made on admission that when a room came up with a view to move. Room with a view came up few months ago and move offered immediately. Given the short daylight hours, as LPA I requested a trial of a couple of hours in room during the day to see how it went. On the very first day of this trial sibling arrived and immediately started complaining that I was intentionally isolating mum and has continued with this despite the nursing home advising that mum appears to be enjoying the extra time in her room. Even with the daylight hours now increasing, I believe she is benefitting from being able to look at the window and from the quiet of her own room.

Complaints also includes saying that I have been abusing mum for years and that Social Services just ignore him. As a result of complaints I was investigated and cleared. Sibling took to the head of Safeguarding and to the Independent Government Ombudsman who upheld findings. He is very angry that mum didn't ask him to be her LPA and says that I manipulated her. Quite simply, he rarely visited her, always saying he was too busy and I was the one who did provide her with help and support so I was the natural choice. When he did visit her, he kept trying to get her to move into a care home close to him in the town in which he lives and would get angry with her for staying in a house he considered too big for her and wasting her money in doing so. It wasn't actually until she had care at home that he did start to visit more regularly.

His complaints are not just impacting upon the management in responding to the emails but now impacting upon the morale of staff in the home as a result of his visits, which are regular, and I have been advised if this continues then they will have to consider evicting mum even though they are well able to take care of her needs. She displays no challenging behaviours and smiles a lot when staff interact with her / involved in her personal care so in herself she is a pretty 'easy' resident to take care of.

I am really worried about a potential move. Where it would be, how good the home, how she would cope, being re-registered with new SP Surgery, etc, etc? I view this one as being excellent and mum seems happy and content. In fact he has said he has no complaints against the home just about my continuing abuse of her and seeing her visits to her room being further abuse by me.

I've seen really positive things since visiting her in her room. She does look out of the window and she says things that are appropriate to what she is seeing. In the lounge areas if she spoke it was often random with neither staff or myself being able to work out what she was talking about / referring to, so this to me is a really positive thing. Brother has refused to experience spending time with her in her room on his visits to observe her there. He absolutely refuses to discuss anything with me about her care given his refusal to accept I have LPA's. All I have been doing is keeping him informed by email of any health changes, medications, etc, despite him mostly not even having the courtesy to acknowledge them.

Despite Safeguarding investigations really not being a pleasant experience, regardless of knowing you are innocent of the accusations made, but I am actually feeling that instead of Social Services keep ignoring him, which seems to be making him more and more angry that they perhaps need to get involved. The Nursing home themselves said to me they feel it is becoming a Safeguarding concern given her placement could be at risk.

The reality is though, how would anyone stop him causing all this trouble, bar stopping him having any contact with her? I don't believe she knows who any family members are anymore, but is able to recognise familiar faces. She appears really happy, does still say she loves me but she hasn't said my name in a very long time and I don't think she knows that I am her daughter. So I believe she gets enjoyment from family visits although doubtful remembers upon my leaving and therefore don't like the idea that his visits / contact is stopped. This has gone on for so many years now and appears an obsession of his with not having control. He can become be very frightening when he loses his temper when not getting his own way (throughout his life). There are no reports that he has lost his temper at the home, although he did lose his temper at the Best Interest meeting as he objected to her being placed in this home and wanted her in a home he had chosen, sandwiched between a busy road and factory in a town. Fortunately the Best Interest meeting was online and his wife intervened so it was relatively short. He also blatantly lies to support his thinking. An example to support him wanting her in a care home in town near him, he has said such things as 'she hasn't always lived in the countryside' which is crazy particularly because it can be proved where she has lived during her life although Social Services never seem interested in actually checking facts.

I'm not sure there is an answer and even if mum was moved, I have no doubt he would continue the same way. If I asked the nursing home to no longer take her to her room, that would be taking away something she clearly enjoys so don't want to do that purely as a result of his behaviour. To even claim isolation when mum still spends the majority of the day in a lounge with others makes his accusations even more ridiculous and not a surprise that he has complained Social Services are ignoring him.

Has anyone experienced anything similar and have any suggestions?
Consider consulting a solicitor who specialises in mental capacity and Court of Protection work. They will advise you on the best way forward. For example, they may start by sending him a letter spelling out how his behaviour is putting her well-being at risk by jeopardising her placement, and explaining to him how, if the dispute had to go to the Court of Protection for resolution, the COP judge would probably take a dim view of his behaviour.
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
Consider consulting a solicitor who specialises in mental capacity and Court of Protection work. They will advise you on the best way forward. For example, they may start by sending him a letter spelling out how his behaviour is putting her well-being at risk by jeopardising her placement, and explaining to him how, if the dispute had to go to the Court of Protection for resolution, the COP judge would probably take a dim view of his behaviour.
That's great thank you. I was wondering whether there were Solicitors who might specialist in this but didn't know what to search for. I have done a search and completed an online enquiry form with one of them.
 

SMBeach

Registered User
Apr 19, 2020
339
0
Hi all

Parent in nursing home, advanced dementia, limited communication.

Home have advised considering giving notice, bnot because they are unable to provide the care or any problems with my mum but due to relentless complaints by non-LPA holding child against myself who solely holds both LPA's.

Mum from diagnosis and throughout dementia journey always expressed the wish if she needed to go a care home it should be in the countryside so could enjoy looking out at the views, as had lived whole life in the countryside, hated towns and had never enjoyed socialising. Wishes are recorded frequently by numerous care professionals over several years. Mum had a number of close friends who would speak to regularly on the phone but no regular visits. She always hated larger gatherings, quite shy and didn't like a lot of noise.

It was difficult to find a placement due to additional complex care needs, but one finally came up in the countryside but no views from the lounges nor available bedroom at the time. Request made on admission that when a room came up with a view to move. Room with a view came up few months ago and move offered immediately. Given the short daylight hours, as LPA I requested a trial of a couple of hours in room during the day to see how it went. On the very first day of this trial sibling arrived and immediately started complaining that I was intentionally isolating mum and has continued with this despite the nursing home advising that mum appears to be enjoying the extra time in her room. Even with the daylight hours now increasing, I believe she is benefitting from being able to look at the window and from the quiet of her own room.

Complaints also includes saying that I have been abusing mum for years and that Social Services just ignore him. As a result of complaints I was investigated and cleared. Sibling took to the head of Safeguarding and to the Independent Government Ombudsman who upheld findings. He is very angry that mum didn't ask him to be her LPA and says that I manipulated her. Quite simply, he rarely visited her, always saying he was too busy and I was the one who did provide her with help and support so I was the natural choice. When he did visit her, he kept trying to get her to move into a care home close to him in the town in which he lives and would get angry with her for staying in a house he considered too big for her and wasting her money in doing so. It wasn't actually until she had care at home that he did start to visit more regularly.

His complaints are not just impacting upon the management in responding to the emails but now impacting upon the morale of staff in the home as a result of his visits, which are regular, and I have been advised if this continues then they will have to consider evicting mum even though they are well able to take care of her needs. She displays no challenging behaviours and smiles a lot when staff interact with her / involved in her personal care so in herself she is a pretty 'easy' resident to take care of.

I am really worried about a potential move. Where it would be, how good the home, how she would cope, being re-registered with new SP Surgery, etc, etc? I view this one as being excellent and mum seems happy and content. In fact he has said he has no complaints against the home just about my continuing abuse of her and seeing her visits to her room being further abuse by me.

I've seen really positive things since visiting her in her room. She does look out of the window and she says things that are appropriate to what she is seeing. In the lounge areas if she spoke it was often random with neither staff or myself being able to work out what she was talking about / referring to, so this to me is a really positive thing. Brother has refused to experience spending time with her in her room on his visits to observe her there. He absolutely refuses to discuss anything with me about her care given his refusal to accept I have LPA's. All I have been doing is keeping him informed by email of any health changes, medications, etc, despite him mostly not even having the courtesy to acknowledge them.

Despite Safeguarding investigations really not being a pleasant experience, regardless of knowing you are innocent of the accusations made, but I am actually feeling that instead of Social Services keep ignoring him, which seems to be making him more and more angry that they perhaps need to get involved. The Nursing home themselves said to me they feel it is becoming a Safeguarding concern given her placement could be at risk.

The reality is though, how would anyone stop him causing all this trouble, bar stopping him having any contact with her? I don't believe she knows who any family members are anymore, but is able to recognise familiar faces. She appears really happy, does still say she loves me but she hasn't said my name in a very long time and I don't think she knows that I am her daughter. So I believe she gets enjoyment from family visits although doubtful remembers upon my leaving and therefore don't like the idea that his visits / contact is stopped. This has gone on for so many years now and appears an obsession of his with not having control. He can become be very frightening when he loses his temper when not getting his own way (throughout his life). There are no reports that he has lost his temper at the home, although he did lose his temper at the Best Interest meeting as he objected to her being placed in this home and wanted her in a home he had chosen, sandwiched between a busy road and factory in a town. Fortunately the Best Interest meeting was online and his wife intervened so it was relatively short. He also blatantly lies to support his thinking. An example to support him wanting her in a care home in town near him, he has said such things as 'she hasn't always lived in the countryside' which is crazy particularly because it can be proved where she has lived during her life although Social Services never seem interested in actually checking facts.

I'm not sure there is an answer and even if mum was moved, I have no doubt he would continue the same way. If I asked the nursing home to no longer take her to her room, that would be taking away something she clearly enjoys so don't want to do that purely as a result of his behaviour. To even claim isolation when mum still spends the majority of the day in a lounge with others makes his accusations even more ridiculous and not a surprise that he has complained Social Services are ignoring him.

Has anyone experienced anything similar and have any suggestions?
It’s clear that the problem isn’t with the care. If social services also agree that the correct care is in place then there’s no argument there. The issue is your brother. I’d have thought social services have a duty of care for your mum? So if they say your mums needs are being met, then they are being met. I think what needs to happen is for the care home to contact your brother in writing and state clearly that your mum is happy and her care plan is working well. And should he continue to cause an atmosphere or a scene then he will not be able to visit.
 

Collywobbles

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
385
0
What an awful situation for you.

I believe as LPA, you can instruct the home not to engage with him in any way, as his actions are directly threatening the wellbeing of your mother i.e. she may lose her place in a home which clearly suits her.

Have you tried asking the home if they would be willing to cut all contact with him if you gave them a written instruction to that effect? It will probably ramp up his behaviour in other directions, but might at least keep it away from your Mum’s carers.
 

SAP

Registered User
Feb 18, 2017
1,589
0
@Savannah , I have had to instruct my mums care home not to let any calls from my sibling to be given to mum. The calls were causing a lot of distress for all concerned and in tern extra work for the staff on duty as mum got in such a state. My situation is very different as I have no communication with my sibling and as the only attorney I’ve handled everything. It took some time but eventually my sibling stopped calling the home.
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
@Savannah , I have had to instruct my mums care home not to let any calls from my sibling to be given to mum. The calls were causing a lot of distress for all concerned and in tern extra work for the staff on duty as mum got in such a state. My situation is very different as I have no communication with my sibling and as the only attorney I’ve handled everything. It took some time but eventually my sibling stopped calling the home.
Thanks for your input, I don't have communication per se. My mum didn't want her medical info shared with him. When she completed the LPA's for me she completed the forms so no-one bar me (bar Solicitor / OPG of course) would be informed about it at the time. Post mum being deemed to no longer have capacity, I agreed I would share medical updates, which I do, although hasn't been much to share, but it is a 'one way street'. A few weeks ago when I shared info re change in medication, knowing of his complaints, I asked if he would advise me if there was currently anything that was concerning him. No response. My personal belief is this has nothing to do with mum's welfare, just his obsession at trying to get me removed as LPA to allow him to take over and be 'in control'. The latest claim of isolation is in itself just ridiculous. Being able to look out on countryside views was what mum had her whole life, was something she requested for herself for any future care and is well documented. It could very well be if she was able to express what she wants now, she might actually say rather than spending just a couple of extra hours in her room during the day that she'd rather only spend a couple of hours in the lounge and the majority if not all in her room given so many of the staff have commented that she seems to be benefitting so much from it. She doesn't interact with other residents and gets as much attention from staff in her room as when in the lounge. And the reality is of course that as her medical conditions decline, she is more than likely to end of being bed bound and being in her room 24/7. If it were not for equipment like hoists she would already be restricted to her room now given her lack of weight bearing / personal mobility. As soon as moving her causes her too much pain and distress (was diagnosed with degeneration of hips many years ago), nursing home will have no choice but to stop moving her Such a ludicrous situation to put mum and the home in. Will be really interesting to hear what Specialist Solicitors have to say on the matter but am inclined to agree with Phill that the Court of Protection wouldn't be impressed with not just this but if they look at historical behaviours.
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
What an awful situation for you.

I believe as LPA, you can instruct the home not to engage with him in any way, as his actions are directly threatening the wellbeing of your mother i.e. she may lose her place in a home which clearly suits her.

Have you tried asking the home if they would be willing to cut all contact with him if you gave them a written instruction to that effect? It will probably ramp up his behaviour in other directions, but might at least keep it away from your Mum’s carers.
I think that will most likely be the only way to go as this isn't a one off, this type of behaviour has been going on for years. Thanks
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
It’s clear that the problem isn’t with the care. If social services also agree that the correct care is in place then there’s no argument there. The issue is your brother. I’d have thought social services have a duty of care for your mum? So if they say your mums needs are being met, then they are being met. I think what needs to happen is for the care home to contact your brother in writing and state clearly that your mum is happy and her care plan is working well. And should he continue to cause an atmosphere or a scene then he will not be able to visit.
The last Social Care assessment was completed in November. Throughout the report there under the outcome section there are comments such as 'better than expected'. Positive comments regarding mum's overall health, eg weight gain, glucose control, etc. Those comments relate to how she is now versus temporary placement of a few months following hospital admission and being unable to return home. No negatives whatsoever over mum or the home. Added to which CQC inspection recently carried out with report published and no issues in any areas whatsoever. I haven't actually seen the correspondence but my understanding is the care home have advised him in writing but he isn't willing to accept what they say and just keeps coming back with the same again and again and again ... It could even be that he wants her to be evicted in the belief that he can get her into a town home, minutes from his home which is what he tried pressurising her into doing from the time of her being diagnosed, which was really early on as I'd noticed short term memory problems and encouraged her to get looked at. It's all just so horrible.
 

SAP

Registered User
Feb 18, 2017
1,589
0
Just a thought but have the home got a legal team ( they would if they are part of a chain) or a solicitor who could write to him and let him know that they won’t stand for his behaviour and will escalate matters further if he continues to abuse staff.
 

Savannah

Registered User
Nov 25, 2018
69
0
Just a thought but have the home got a legal team ( they would if they are part of a chain) or a solicitor who could write to him and let him know that they won’t stand for his behaviour and will escalate matters further if he continues to abuse staff.
I'm not sure there is any evidence of abusing staff, rather than demanding they listen to him and ignore me (and Social Services who have been ignoring him as they're seemingly in on it too) and any instructions I may give due to my 'abusing my mum for years'.