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Mum needs help and my hands are tied.

Moggymad

Registered User
May 12, 2017
658
0
I just offered an alternative solution on @canary's thread about Diagnosis...
🐟 🤪
I wonder if your brother has H&W LPA arranged behind your back. He seems to be getting information from somewhere. Perhaps being ex police he has ways of making them talk!
I have no experience of what SS do with a safeguarding referral but I still think private carers will be needed as money is the bottom line with SS
 

Alora

Registered User
Oct 16, 2021
159
0
This is the convo I had with my brother last night so you can judge.


. He’d not replied to first request and then I sent a second one giving him until the 27 nov. Within an hour I received an email . He was explaining the conversations he’d had with the a representative from mum‘s surgery about whether she could refuse care, suggesting a Walker for mum, saying a sw was coming to mum’s home in a few weeks and could we be there and then we have a chat with mum afterwards about the way forward, if any. He didn’t see a way out of the poa issue because mum doesn’t want me involved. He said he‘d taken over mum;s money in october 2016 just to help her out…it was actually earlier thsn that as I’d agreed because I was tied up children and work.

The LPA was set up in 2016.

He didnt know about the capacity issue but he said there’s nothing in writing anywhere so unless there’s proof then it’s only a safeguarding thing which wasn’t urgent. In effect he was playing things down really.

He must have got my second email and that’s when he called. He talked non stop for about 10 minutes sounding really upset. He said that he is sick to death of being in the middle of mum and me and he’d by quite happy not to do it any more. He said he thought we’d sorted it last year - which is when I backed off and fell out of picture as I was moving. He said he’s fed up with it. The problem is mum doesn‘t want me involved because I’m too free with money, that mum and dad are from a different era and saved their money whereas I’m from a different generation. She wants him to it as before.

I said Mum wanted me to lpa so what’s the problem? He said ‘well, I’m not sure about that, ummm the Solicitor said there should be two and Mum reluctantly agreed it should be you’ - thsnks a bunch bruv.

He went on to say that mum was extremely cross and upset over this and that I should ring her and hear her side of it. He said that it a difficult situation and that ‘he didn’t know where to go’ but wanted to do the right thing. It was a bit of whinge.

He said that the only way out was to remove me and install a solicitor because mum has made her mind and this will happen if I continue to go for my right. He said that he was in charge of £400,000 a big responsibility and didnt want to be stuck in the middle any more. I let him drone on for a while.

I said that capacity issue kicks in the LPA and overrides mum now. He said he;s not so sure and that he’s not prepared to go against mum’s wishes. I said we need to work together and what would happen if he died i would not know about the accounts and he didn’t answer that one.

i explained that I wanted to get things for mum and he said didn’t know that but that he’d pay for it and I said that‘s a problem too and not the way forwardbut I did need to see the accounts and he said it’s not what mum wants. In the end we came to halt an agreed to wait until sw comes. I couldn’t talk any more as I had a class.

I did call Mum but she’d no idea what was talking about and called brother back and told him and he seemed a bit surprised,

He said that mum likes things the way they are, she doesn’t want people traipsing through her home and basically wants to be left alone.

Then I get an email saying that we’d agreed to wait for sw visit and find a way forward afterwards with mum

The upshot he’s not going to give me the details unless mum agrees.

I didn’t want to go OPG without being sure.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
16,138
0
South coast
You could try contacting the OPG for some advice. They wont give you a judgement, but they would probably tell you what you need before formally asking them to investigate.
I had to contact them several times about mum (I had deputyship rather than POA and that is much more stringent) and always found them helpful.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
2,237
0
High Peak
You don't have to report your concerns about mum's money to the OPG at this stage as you have no idea if there is any need to do so.

But you can report his refusal to share financial details with his joint PoA, i.e. you.
 

Alora

Registered User
Oct 16, 2021
159
0
I did speak to the OPG on Monday last and they said I could force the i formation from my brother and that I‘d have to do it myself.

They advised that I could report a safeguarding concern in that my brother is not acting in mum’s best interests.

I’d have to provide proof of financial wrongs through seeing the accounts.
 

Alora

Registered User
Oct 16, 2021
159
0
There is only mediation which my mum didn’t want to do.

I’ve leant a lot and got a diagnosis and safeguarding.

2 out of 3 ain’t bad.
🙂
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
2,906
0
He is putting words into your mums mouth, he is controlling her, I can just see it 'Well mum you know what @Alora is like, she's a spendthrift, do you really want her looking after your money' and 'do you really want people traipsing through your house' He is telling her what she wants and what she doesn't want. I used the same tactics to get dad to appointments 'Well dad they have made this appointment especially for your benefit, don't you think that you should at least turn up' It always worked.

Don't give up whatever you do. His behaviour toward you and your mum is astonishing.
 

Alora

Registered User
Oct 16, 2021
159
0
Yes he’s a little ray of sunshine🙄 - I’m afraid he does this because he can.
 

Alora

Registered User
Oct 16, 2021
159
0
Don’t worry I’m not giving up…

now doing AA forms for Mum - I expect I’ll get told ‘it‘s not what mum wants, along with my suggestion of a care pendant., I have to wait until she agrees to it apparently.

Alora x
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
16,138
0
South coast
There should be a declaration to sign on the back if you are doing it for someone else, so no, you dont have to wait for her to agree.
When I filled in the AA form for mum I was told by DWP that the way to fill it in is to answer every question as if it were the worst day from hell. Also fill it in assuming that a different person will look at every question, and dont forget to write supporting observations in the box at the bottom of every question.
 

Starting on a journey

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
765
0
You will have to sign the form as poa and then send them a copy of your poa. They will ring you and tell you exactly what to do. At this point you will probably find out if your brother has notified the DWP of his poa., he may have just left it and just paid to have all her mail forwarded or even told them she lives at his address!

I am assuming that when you rang DWP attendance allowance unit they asked for mums name, date of birth, National insurance number to check that there wasn’t already a claim in her name?
 

Starting on a journey

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
765
0
Oh yes, once accepted as poa for attendance allowance you will also become her poa (appointee) for all social security benefits, so if you wanted to divert some money to pay for mums care you could arrange for her pension as well as attendance allowance to be paid into a separate account.

I didn’t realise this when I did my mums attendance allowance and then found letters about her retirement pension were addressed to me.
 

RosettaT

Registered User
Sep 9, 2018
654
0
Mid Lincs
@Alora not sure if this has been mentioned but Age UK will help you fill the AA forms in.
Just be aware that you need to send the whole LPA as I was told only the first page was needed and this caused a 16 week delay, tho' the AA did get back dated.

Keep on trucking you are doing wonderfully.
 

lollyc

Registered User
Sep 9, 2020
593
0
Oh yes, once accepted as poa for attendance allowance you will also become her poa (appointee) for all social security benefits, so if you wanted to divert some money to pay for mums care you could arrange for her pension as well as attendance allowance to be paid into a separate account.

I didn’t realise this when I did my mums attendance allowance and then found letters about her retirement pension were addressed to me.
Mum still gets all that addressed to her, but I was thinking along similar lines. @Alora, it should be possible with POA to open a new bank account for your mum, and arrange to have AA & pension paid into it. The only problem might be getting the appropriate ID from your mum ( I can't remember what is required), particularly if your brother is getting her post redirected. You could then play your brother at his own game - have an account that only you have access to!

Another thing to think of at some point, is council tax disregard (I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned). Your mum should be exempt due to severe mental impairment. You can apply on her behalf.
 

Hours Away

New member
Jul 16, 2021
7
0
I've had to deal with financial safeguarding issues and had some thoughts/ideas which I hope might be useful.

1) Can you use the sort code to identify the bank/building society which holds your mother's main account - I've got online access to my PWD's BT account and as the bill is paid via DD if I logon I can see the sort code and the end of the bank account number. If your mother's phone is likely to be with BT could you phone them up whilst you are there, perhaps under the pretext of checking what services she is currently paying for, since you can't find a paper bill, and either try to get them to confirm the sort code directly to you (they will probably ask for her permission to speak to you first) or get hold of the BT account number from them so you can sign up for this service, find the sort code and then use google to work out which bank her main account is with.

If BT aren't her supplier it might be worth trying another utility company if you can phone them from her home.

Alternatively, has your brother ever reimbursed you for spend by electronic payment directly from your mother's account as the account details might then be visible on an old statement?

2) Try and keep written records of all communication with your brother as it's then easy to produce documentary evidence of his attitude (eg for SS) and your many attempts to get him to reconsider his approach to dealing with your mother's funds. If he calls rather than emails perhaps then email him a summary of your conversation, reiterating your continued concerns about why this approach is no longer practical etc and just politely repeat the previous request for full sight of all financial information. In addition to the recent capacity assessment the fact you'll shortly be living much closer to your mother is a key reason why things needs to change and you need ready access to her funds for her daily living expenses at the very least eg via a debit card.

Since you're also looking at paying for carers and more support as well as having sight of all the savings accounts and how accessible they are (since he might have tied some/all in fixed term accounts) you also need access to the main bank account statements to work out whether your mother actually has surplus income each month as she may be able to fund at least some of the care costs from her existing income. You'll also need the main bank account details in order to sign any care contract as they will want to set up a payment direct debit.

3) Follow up with the consultant/gp to ensure they document their verbal assessment of lack of capacity promptly and that you also get a copy of it so you can share it with your brother/the solicitor/SS etc as necessary.

4) I think the OPG previously mentioned to you that you need to bring them evidence of wrongdoing so the onus is likely to be on you to work out which building societies funds are with and then if the balances are not what you expected to identify any misappropriation. If your brother has registered the POA already at least they should have a scanned copy on their records already and you might then just need to do the usual ID checks. Your mother's address might have been switched over to his home address automatically so bear this in mind when contacting them whilst trying to trace accounts.

A certified copy of the POA always seems to needed. I think you just have one copy at the moment from the OPG - do you know if this counts as a certified copy? If it does it might be worth ordering more from them if the solicitor who holds the original won't provide you with certified copies or there isn't another way of getting certified copies locally. You may need to post the certified copy off in some cases eg for AA so ideally you need 2 or 3 certified copies at least.

5) Particularly given the isolated location you mentioned perhaps start researching which local care services operate in the area and whether they currently have any spare capacity or long waiting lists. Identifying a cleaner, home visiting podiatrist, hairdresser etc as well as finding and then managing carers all takes time in addition to the huge amount of time involved in supporting someone who is still living on their own at home with every aspect of daily life .

6) Don't expect either the police or SS to be particularly concerned about the details wrt financial matters. They want safeguarding solutions and it is likely to be down to you to come up with any evidence of misappropriation and also a plan which everyone can agree to. Perhaps spend some time thinking about how things would work best for you in the short and longer term under different scenarios which SS could also buy into eg brother could hand over bank card for main account to you, retain sight of it online and top it up from savings account when balance drops below £x. If you put various options down in a document beforehand you could discuss and refine them at the safeguarding meeting and SS can then easily incorporate it in the minutes and action plan.
 

lollyc

Registered User
Sep 9, 2020
593
0
@Hours Away - excellent advice!

With regard to contacting utilities - and I perhaps shouldn't admit to this - we actually resorted to "pretending" to be my (dead) father, when contacting one particular company. They insisted on speaking to the account holder - Dad - who being dead could manage that , a concept that they seemed unable to grasp. In the end we got wise to situation, and my BIL told them he was Dad. We only wanted to close the account!
 

Alora

Registered User
Oct 16, 2021
159
0
Thanks for all your advice.

Hours Away thank you! I’ve got a letter coming today from Consultant. I had to call as he had not written a letter but noted lack of capacity on mum’s notes.

Ive got office copy of the lpa but got a few copies from job centre plus that were certified. They were not happy with me!

I’ve had to send poa to for mum’s ni number to HMRC for the AA form and I think I’ll have to set up a bank account.

When i spoke to DWP they wanted me to send another copy of POA to them i‘m not sure why. Do you know?

When I applied for the aa form nothing was asked of me.

Will do council tax tomorrow and try and get a wheelchair from the dr’s surgery.

Canary - thsnks for the advice on AA

is anything else I need to do?

im going to do the bt thing as well.

I’ve done a ‘find my bank account‘ for mum so the banks and bs can tell me if she had accounts.

DWP confirmed that Mum‘s pension is being paid into a bank account.

xx
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
2,237
0
High Peak
That all sounds like good progress :)

Once this is all sorted out (and it will be!) I wouldn't be at all surprised if your brother withdraws and leaves you to do everything. Fingers crossed he's just being a complete pain and hasn't done anything bad...