How far would you feel it acceptable to push food and drink?
- Thread starter piedwarbler
- Start date
Helen33
Registered User
Dear Pied,
This is what happened to me the moment Alan died. The whole house was full of love and it was tangible. Everybody who came into the house mentioned it without me saying a word. I feel a lot of love normally but this was way and above the usual for me.
Love and a (HUG)
This is what happened to me the moment Alan died. The whole house was full of love and it was tangible. Everybody who came into the house mentioned it without me saying a word. I feel a lot of love normally but this was way and above the usual for me.
I can only echo what Nellbelles says.
Love and a (HUG)
florence43
Registered User
Dear Pied,
If this is your mum's time, then you are making it beautiful for her.
You are already describing some quite serene moments and you'll be surprised at the calm that comes after the storm. Maybe your weathering the stormy part now?
I remember that once I knew, I was able to be at one with mum. No more shouting for her, no more fighting for her, just the time to be with her, and sit. I talked, sang, dripped water in her mouth, stroked her hands and watched her sleep. And finally, everyone else left her alone.
When this surreal time comes, I hope life is as calm for you both. I know many have experienced distress, and seen pain, but I'd like to give you hope too that it can be beautiful, no matter how heart-breaking. Much of that is the acceptance and agreement by all concerned with her care that she should be left alone. Sometimes, you have take the care from the nurses to hand over to Mother Nature.
Cliche, though it sounds, a time will come when you take it one day at a time. A vague pattern to look out for but over all just respect for the human body and it's limited strength.
Keep going, my love. Keep knowing, and just be there so she can hear you singing, xxx
If this is your mum's time, then you are making it beautiful for her.
You are already describing some quite serene moments and you'll be surprised at the calm that comes after the storm. Maybe your weathering the stormy part now?
I remember that once I knew, I was able to be at one with mum. No more shouting for her, no more fighting for her, just the time to be with her, and sit. I talked, sang, dripped water in her mouth, stroked her hands and watched her sleep. And finally, everyone else left her alone.
When this surreal time comes, I hope life is as calm for you both. I know many have experienced distress, and seen pain, but I'd like to give you hope too that it can be beautiful, no matter how heart-breaking. Much of that is the acceptance and agreement by all concerned with her care that she should be left alone. Sometimes, you have take the care from the nurses to hand over to Mother Nature.
Cliche, though it sounds, a time will come when you take it one day at a time. A vague pattern to look out for but over all just respect for the human body and it's limited strength.
Keep going, my love. Keep knowing, and just be there so she can hear you singing, xxx
grove
Registered User
Care Plan
Hello Pied , First of all want to get the worried bit out ( am worried about your Mum ) .....Porridge .... am confused as to why your Mum was given any ! & hope that your Mum's changes etc ( including Diet / Meals ) are written in her Care Plan ( as they should be ) All Staff should be made aware that your Mum needs "special care " with her Diet etc & that means she does not need Porridge ...... Sorry to go on Pied & please hope you ok about what I said etc
Your little "Room of Love " sounds very peaceful & comforting for you & your Mum ( only just read your updates ... sorry bit late )
Much Love , Peace & Comfort to you & your Mum for today & in the days to come
Love & Hugs Love Grove x x x
P S ..... Try not to worry about the amount of Fortisip your Mum has for you its not a competion with the Care Staff ! Am pleased your Mum is having that its good stuff !
Hello Pied , First of all want to get the worried bit out ( am worried about your Mum ) .....Porridge .... am confused as to why your Mum was given any ! & hope that your Mum's changes etc ( including Diet / Meals ) are written in her Care Plan ( as they should be ) All Staff should be made aware that your Mum needs "special care " with her Diet etc & that means she does not need Porridge ...... Sorry to go on Pied & please hope you ok about what I said etc
Your little "Room of Love " sounds very peaceful & comforting for you & your Mum ( only just read your updates ... sorry bit late )
Much Love , Peace & Comfort to you & your Mum for today & in the days to come
Love & Hugs Love Grove x x x
P S ..... Try not to worry about the amount of Fortisip your Mum has for you its not a competion with the Care Staff ! Am pleased your Mum is having that its good stuff !
creativesarah
Registered User
Blessings be with you Pied and your lovely Mum
may you find in her room an oasis of peace and comfort
praying for you both and your family
Luv Sarah
may you find in her room an oasis of peace and comfort
praying for you both and your family
Luv Sarah
DeborahBlythe
Registered User
That's lovely to hear, Pied. Sending hugs to you and your mum. I'm sorry I haven't been around much. I do read your thread but until this evening I didn't feel able to write much that others hadn't already said, and said better.
You are doing very well indeed with your mum. She is so lucky to have your love around her. x
grove
Registered User
Hello Pied , ( less worrying post ) As other's have said on this "Thread " you are doing your very best for your dear Mum & the love you have for her shines through in your posts Pied . You are a very caring Daughter & your Mum is lucky to have such a lovely / caring person as you are Pied
Much Love & Peace to you & your Mum
Love Grove x x
Much Love & Peace to you & your Mum
Love Grove x x
piedwarbler
Registered User
Well I just phoned the home as I left mum at half past four. At that point she had had just 30 mls of fortisip and 10 of tea all day.
I spoke to M the night nurse and she said Mum was settled and had had 100mls of Horlicks with D at 7 pm.
I do find this strange. I can't get 10 ml of fluid into Mum and yet someone else can get 100 into her. How strange.
What to make of it.
I hope mum is not being over encouraged. But how can I be sure?
What to do
I feel like sitting guard at her bedside!
Anyone else ever felt like this? Just an uneasy feeling - a lack of sureness.
I spoke to M the night nurse and she said Mum was settled and had had 100mls of Horlicks with D at 7 pm.
I do find this strange. I can't get 10 ml of fluid into Mum and yet someone else can get 100 into her. How strange.
What to make of it.
I hope mum is not being over encouraged. But how can I be sure?
What to do
I feel like sitting guard at her bedside!
Anyone else ever felt like this? Just an uneasy feeling - a lack of sureness.
jenniferpa
Registered User
My theory (and it's just a theory) is that they start with 100 mls say, and they try to give it and a fair amount of it spills. There's no way to check how much has spilled so it's counted.
It shouldn't be like this but I think it is.
It shouldn't be like this but I think it is.
piedwarbler
Registered User
I feel so strongly tonight that I am letting Mum down. If I'm suspicious I should get out of bed and go over there and fight for her to be left in peace.
Or maybe I am panicking over nothing. Maybe D has spilt a lot of the Horlicks. Maybe she exaggerated to show that she can make Mum drink when I cannot. Maybe she really cares and wants to help Mum. Maybe I am worrying over nothing.
I really hate this vague feeling of guilt that I've let Mum down.
The nice nurse M did say that Mum will take up to 100 ml in an 11 hour night shift. She said that's really not bed for a little frail lady like my mum.
Do the home think I should try harder to feed Mum and that I am wimping out on her?
I'm looking for some peace of mind tonight xx
Or maybe I am panicking over nothing. Maybe D has spilt a lot of the Horlicks. Maybe she exaggerated to show that she can make Mum drink when I cannot. Maybe she really cares and wants to help Mum. Maybe I am worrying over nothing.
I really hate this vague feeling of guilt that I've let Mum down.
The nice nurse M did say that Mum will take up to 100 ml in an 11 hour night shift. She said that's really not bed for a little frail lady like my mum.
Do the home think I should try harder to feed Mum and that I am wimping out on her?
I'm looking for some peace of mind tonight xx
jan.s
Registered User
Well I just phoned the home as I left mum at half past four. At that point she had had just 30 mls of fortisip and 10 of tea all day.
I spoke to M the night nurse and she said Mum was settled and had had 100mls of Horlicks with D at 7 pm.
I do find this strange. I can't get 10 ml of fluid into Mum and yet someone else can get 100 into her. How strange.
What to make of it.
I hope mum is not being over encouraged. But how can I be sure?
What to do
I feel like sitting guard at her bedside!
Anyone else ever felt like this? Just an uneasy feeling - a lack of sureness.
Yes pied, for different reasons, i felt like sitting guard at Roger's bedside.
Jan xx
jenniferpa
Registered User
Pied I really can't answer you. I think all of those scenarios could be playing out. It's possible that she is in fact wider awake in these night time hours so she can take more then.
OK - I'm going with a "human nature" approach
1) People don't want you to worry so they guestimate generously the amount your mum has taken.
2) From what you describe, your mother is not easy to feed any kind fluid so I doubt that anyone is taking the time to essentially force-feed any substantial amount of fluid.
The result: they tell you she's had more fluid than she has but they aren't pushing fluids on her because that would take way too much time. Neither of these options shows them in a perfect light but I can see how it could happen.
This may be of no help at all.
OK - I'm going with a "human nature" approach
1) People don't want you to worry so they guestimate generously the amount your mum has taken.
2) From what you describe, your mother is not easy to feed any kind fluid so I doubt that anyone is taking the time to essentially force-feed any substantial amount of fluid.
The result: they tell you she's had more fluid than she has but they aren't pushing fluids on her because that would take way too much time. Neither of these options shows them in a perfect light but I can see how it could happen.
This may be of no help at all.
piedwarbler
Registered User
Both those replies have helped me enormously. Thanks for taking the time to write. I like your theories Jennifer. I hope the nurse doesn't have the time to force feed. I guess not.
I just have a gut feeling about it that doesn't sit well.
I am going to Try Not To Worry and go to sleep.
Night xx
I just have a gut feeling about it that doesn't sit well.
I am going to Try Not To Worry and go to sleep.
Night xx
florence43
Registered User
Yes, I think Jennifer makes a lot of sense, and has been what I suspect a little too. I do think the role of the staff (and of people, by nature) is to sugar-coat or slightly enhancing the truth to prevent you from worrying.
My frustrations often surrounded the feeling that very few expected me to have researched and read about this stage in mum's illness, and that to protect me, they kept the details from me. I like to think it's out of kindness, however frustrating it was at the time. I knew what to expect and I really needed to know if we were at each stage, especially as I thought we were and desperately needed confirmation. However, when the staff have it all in hand, which I'm sure they have, they keep family at arms' length so when we leave our loved one, we're not constantly worrying about how much food or fluid they've taken. But that doesn't stop us, and that's the problem.
Like me, you really want the truth, because it's not adding up. I used to wonder how they achieved these claims that mum took so much more fluid for them than for me... After all, I didn't have other residents to look after. I had all the time and patience in the world, yet mum physically couldn't take more than I was giving her. I always suspected it was either forced, spilled or exaggerated. The latter is the more likely scenario. They have such responsibility, and to put your mind at rest, I definitely don't think it's to show who's better at the job... I really don't. I just think they are following orders and certainly attempting these amounts, but are maybe worried they'd be in trouble if they didn't give her the "required" amount (though we all seem to agree that's too much, if she's refusing it...but that's another story).
There's no way of ever knowing for sure, but you do have a trusting bond with M, the night nurse, so I would simply take that fact as your sleeping aid tonight, and know your mum's in good hands. I hope, from the bottom of my heart, that you and your mum both have a good nights sleep.
Build up some strength for tomorrow and see it as another day. That anxious knot will pass, because you will be hearing from the GP this week and know for sure you're not letting your mum down. We all know that, and now we just need you to know that too.
Sweet dreams, and sleep tight, xxx
My frustrations often surrounded the feeling that very few expected me to have researched and read about this stage in mum's illness, and that to protect me, they kept the details from me. I like to think it's out of kindness, however frustrating it was at the time. I knew what to expect and I really needed to know if we were at each stage, especially as I thought we were and desperately needed confirmation. However, when the staff have it all in hand, which I'm sure they have, they keep family at arms' length so when we leave our loved one, we're not constantly worrying about how much food or fluid they've taken. But that doesn't stop us, and that's the problem.
Like me, you really want the truth, because it's not adding up. I used to wonder how they achieved these claims that mum took so much more fluid for them than for me... After all, I didn't have other residents to look after. I had all the time and patience in the world, yet mum physically couldn't take more than I was giving her. I always suspected it was either forced, spilled or exaggerated. The latter is the more likely scenario. They have such responsibility, and to put your mind at rest, I definitely don't think it's to show who's better at the job... I really don't. I just think they are following orders and certainly attempting these amounts, but are maybe worried they'd be in trouble if they didn't give her the "required" amount (though we all seem to agree that's too much, if she's refusing it...but that's another story).
There's no way of ever knowing for sure, but you do have a trusting bond with M, the night nurse, so I would simply take that fact as your sleeping aid tonight, and know your mum's in good hands. I hope, from the bottom of my heart, that you and your mum both have a good nights sleep.
Build up some strength for tomorrow and see it as another day. That anxious knot will pass, because you will be hearing from the GP this week and know for sure you're not letting your mum down. We all know that, and now we just need you to know that too.
Sweet dreams, and sleep tight, xxx
Saffie
Registered User
I post here rather tremulously but have been very concerned and thinking about you, Pied, and what you are going through. You must never think that you have ever let your mother down. I don't think you could find a more devoted daughter. Your love for your mother has shone through all your threads concerning her and I'm sure she knows how very much you care.
I cannot help regarding the liquid intake issue but I sympathise deeply with the pain and anxiety you are now feeling. X
I cannot help regarding the liquid intake issue but I sympathise deeply with the pain and anxiety you are now feeling. X
jenniferpa
Registered User
I think Annie has really summed up my views about this. I do wish that people wouldn't do this, but I also think they think they are doing the right thing.
My mother's nursing home gave me all the facts but they didn't (probably couldn't) give me the sort of time line that I needed. So I took what they said as gospel - she was comfortable, she was still eating etc and I thought I could stick to my timeline. As it happens she died the day I was coming to see her and I still think that the views she expressed to her carer were real: "I don't want Jenny to see me like this" yet I also wish I could have had the opportunity to do what you are doing Pied. I'm fortunate - I have this statement to hang onto, so I can tell myself - this was a conscious decision, but selfishly, I wish she had waited.
My mother's nursing home gave me all the facts but they didn't (probably couldn't) give me the sort of time line that I needed. So I took what they said as gospel - she was comfortable, she was still eating etc and I thought I could stick to my timeline. As it happens she died the day I was coming to see her and I still think that the views she expressed to her carer were real: "I don't want Jenny to see me like this" yet I also wish I could have had the opportunity to do what you are doing Pied. I'm fortunate - I have this statement to hang onto, so I can tell myself - this was a conscious decision, but selfishly, I wish she had waited.
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