Driving - somebody must decide

[LAP]

driving

How I wish somebody would step in and sort out the driving issue.
It is something Bill and I row about.
Bill drives and cannot see that there will come a point when he will not be able to and refuses to see that the moment might be soon.
Or it might not be soon.
He is a very capable driver - he can manouevre the car. (Hell just found a word I can't spell!)
But he is driving too fast. Last Sunday he had a spell of driving at 85 mph on a road with traffic and I deemed this to be very unsuitable. I worry about his reactions to unforeseen incidents.
I normally have to remind him where he needs to go at junctions and roundabouts.
I have informed the DVLA that he has been diagnosed with dementia.
I have suggested that he has an driving assessment test.
Maybe the DVLA should stop him now until he has an assessment.
No doctor can decide this really - they only know the diagnosis not his driving skills.
I can drive and do drive when I am out alone - but Bill refuses to let me drive if he is coming out too.
How has this been for others?
Hope you are having a good week......I tend to lose my cool on Wednesdays; I wonder why.
Love to all from Grandma P.

You have done the right thing by informing the DVLA, in fact we are legally bound to do so. or incur a massive fine if anything happens and they did not know. In my case, the Consultant who told my husband that after all of the tests he had undergone, the diagnosis was in fact Alzheimers and he asked him if he drove. When my husband said that he did, we were told that we MUST inform the DVLA and he even suggested that we arrange an assessment with the mobility people before the DVLA told us to do so. We did this and in the meantime the DVLA sent my husband a letter telling him to arrange an assessment. There was a time gap but after the driving assessment -which unfortunately my husband passed- he was given a licence for 1 year. I assume that in July or thereabouts he will be asked to take another assessment. unfortunately I think that he will probably pass this test again and I am in the same position as you in that my husband virtually refuses to allow me to drive the car, because he says it is his and not mine!!!!! I despair sometimes in fact all of the time.
My husband drove around this area all of his working life but does not recognise any road now and has to be directed by me, which annoys him greatly.
My cousin has bought a house in Scotland and we have been invited to stay but I have emailed him and stated that I just couldn't face my husband driving 200 miles with me in the passenger seat.
He certainly wouldn't allow me to drive him. The answer ------ I take every day as it comes like you.
Why don't you ring the mobility assessment centre and put your case to them when your husband is not around and see what they say.
My husband has already stated that if they took his licence off him, he would not have any reason to live.

 

[Countryboy]

'You are required by law to inform Drivers Medical Branch, DVLA, Swansea SA99 1AT at once if you have any disability (either physical or medical condition) which is, or may become, likely to affect your fitness as a driver, unless you do not expect it to last more than three months.'

It is the responsibility of the driver to inform the DVLA. It is the responsibility of doctors to advise patients that medical conditions (and drugs) may affect their ability to drive and for which conditions patients should inform the DVLA.

Drivers should also inform their insurance company of any condition disclosed to the DVLA.

Remember prior to DVLA contacting you GP / Consultant YOU have to give them you're consent


CONSENT
Please read the following information carefully and then sign the statement below. This section MUST be completed and must NOT be altered in any way.
Important infonnation about Consent You will see that we have asked you for your consent for the release of medical reports from your doctors as we may require further information. In addition, as a part of the investigation into your fitness to drive, DVLA may require you to undergo a medical examination or some form of practical assessment.
In these circumstances, those personnel involved will require your background medical details to undertake an appropriate and adequate assessment. Such personnel might include Doctors, Orthoptists at eye clinics or Paramedical Staff at a Driving Assessment centre. Only information relevant to the assessment of your fitness to drive will be released. In addition, where the circumstances of your case appear exceptional, the relevant medical information would need to be considered by one or more of the Secretary of State's Honorary Medical Advisory Panels. The membership of these Panels conforms strictly to the principle of confidentiality.
All data held by DVLA is used for internal evaluation of the quality of our services.
Consent and Declaration
I authorise my Doctor(s) and Specialist(s) to release reports/medical information about my condition relevant to my fitness to drive, to the Secretary of State's medical adviser. I authorise the Secretary of State to disclose such relevant medical information as may be necessary to the investigation of my fitness to drive, to Doctors, Paramedical staff and Panel members.
I declare that I have checked the details I have given on the enclosed questionnaire and that, to the best of my knowledge and belief they are correct.
"I understand that it is a criminal offence if I make a false declaration to obtain a driving licence and can lead to prosecution. "

Name:
Signature:
Date:
.
authorise the Secretary of State to :
Infonn my Doctor(s) of the outcome of my case

Release medical infonnation, discovered during the investigation into my fitness to drive, to Doctor(s)
Electronic Release of Infonnation
DVLA is able to request and receive medical information by fax and email from you, your doctor(s) or any relevant personnel associated with your medical equiry
All information held by DVLA is treated with strict confidentiality. E-mails with personal information will be sent by DVLA to medical professionals only where a secure network is available. The security of the electronic transmission of information over the Internet cannot be guaranteed and DVLA cannot accept responsibility for e-mails or faxes sent by others, until they have been received by us. If we are unable to communicate in this way, conventional postage methods will be used instead. You must confirm in writing if you wish to cancel the agreement to communicate electronically.
Do you agree to DVLA communicating with you by fax and / or email
Do you agree to DVLA communicating with your Doctors, Orthoptists or relevant personnel by fax and / or email

 

[Grandma P]

Thanks for all driving advice.

Thanks everybody for so much help.
I think tomorrow I will ask my friends about a driving instructor that they trust and maybe pay for Bill to have an hour with them and get somebody else's opinion quickly.
And I will arrange a driving assessment as soon as possible.
I have been amazed to read though that often it is the people with dementia who can sort the problem for themselves - even fighting the DVLA to get their licence back.
Bill couldn't do that.
I don't know exactly what has happened to him. Within a year he has gone from being somebody who was very vague and a bit detached from the real world to somebody who is completely lost - like his brain has shut down. He behaves like a toddler - and toddlers don't have the brain judgement to drive a car.
But Bill does it well. We are both top grade athletics timekeepers too - and he can still do that well.
But conversation, planning, interest in the world around him - all gone and so quickly.
I am living with an empty shell.
Grandma P.

 

[Saffie]

Thr thing is that it's not just about driving adequately or even well, it's about reaction.
A second or so delay in reacting to something happening and someone could be hurt or killed. It's difficult.

 

[Countryboy]

Yes for a person with Dementia applying for his/her Driving Licence it is a Battlefield and yes they will have to go into Battle with all the DVLA Bureaucrats , I did from February 2001 to September 2012 , ok during that period they did issue me with a 12 month Driving Licence so I could dive but in reality the DVLA can only do that if you're medical condition affects you're ability to Drive , mine didn't
I now have a full driving licence No Medical Restrictions so I won’t be put through that again .
how did I achieve it well I was fortunate enough to have 100% support from my Family Letters from my G.P and Consultant at memory clinic , my Occupational Therapist , my Vic heal Insurance Agent Car Hire Companies in Spain , I also took a Driving Assessment , and whilst on holiday in Mallorca I was filmed driving on various roads in different traffic conditions yes and on the opposite side of the road , ( all of those mentioned agreed my driving wasn’t an issue yet the bureaucrats didn’t listen)

So I by-passed the DVLA bureaucrats and wrote to the DVLA Medical Advisory Panel with a copy of all the information and informed them it was my intention to challenge their decision on issuing me with an annual driving licence in Court . obviously my Court Case was sound and DVLA legal team saw that.


Yes it was a battle had I to fight remember every person with dementia diagnoses is different and should be looked at and treated as Individuals ,
Finally apart from dementia I’m fit and well , I’m and always have been very alert whilst driving with very quick reactions to any road situation, or mechanical failure on the vehicle

 

[Saffie]

Tony, you are great and have gone to great lengths to prove that you are a competent driver and I'm not suggesting in any way that you aren't. The problem is that a lot of drivers think they are competent (even some without dementia I do realise!) without taking any kind of test at all. That is the problem.

 

[Countryboy]

Tony, you are great and have gone to great lengths to prove that you are a competent driver and I'm not suggesting in any way that you aren't. The problem is that a lot of drivers think they are competent (even some without dementia I do realise!) without taking any kind of test at all. That is the problem.

Hi Saffie that’s ok no problem I try to tell others with dementia you can drive if you're confident in you driving unfortunately the system is against you if you have dementia and that shouldn’t be, I meet once a month with group of seven people with some sort of dementia this group is organized and run by the Alzheimer’s Society I’m next to the youngest in the group at 70 so give you an idea of the ages, Six of us still drive so six out of seven pretty good average So its not only me

and yes you're correct that there are many drivers on the roads who shouldn’t be and they don’t all have dementia

 

[Barlemo]

The DVLA has granted my husband a licence for another 12 months. What they based their decision on I don't know as I would have expected they would at least require an assessment. He scored 17 out of 30 on his last memory test, which to me shows a worrying impairment which surely must impact on his driving ability. It is a big worry. To wait for an accident to happen is madness. We have recently bought a new car and fortunately he can't get the hang of it at all, so it looks as though this has solved the problem for us thank goodness.

 

[Ladybird23]

We took the keys off my dad as we did not want him causing an accident. Sold his car and we breathed a sigh of relief. Nobody could come to harm. He took it quite well.

 

[grove]

Thanks everybody for so much help.
I think tomorrow I will ask my friends about a driving instructor that they trust and maybe pay for Bill to have an hour with them and get somebody else's opinion quickly.
And I will arrange a driving assessment as soon as possible.
I have been amazed to read though that often it is the people with dementia who can sort the problem for themselves - even fighting the DVLA to get their licence back.
Bill couldn't do that.
I don't know exactly what has happened to him. Within a year he has gone from being somebody who was very vague and a bit detached from the real world to somebody who is completely lost - like his brain has shut down. He behaves like a toddler - and toddlers don't have the brain judgement to drive a car.
But Bill does it well. We are both top grade athletics timekeepers too - and he can still do that well.
But conversation, planning, interest in the world around him - all gone and so quickly.
I am living with an empty shell.
Grandma P.

Hi Grandma P , Sending you some vibes for the Driving Instructor & the Driving Assessment is booked quickly ( In the new A Society free booklet which I have read .........It mentioned a *real case story * & the person who went for a DVLA Assessment had a go on a *stimulator * first of all before getting in the real Car ........... thought just mention that & hope it helps )


Just a thought you mention Bill is a very good sports Time Keeper is there any where * Local * where his talents could be used & keep him busy etc ( am thinking a Voluntary Running Club etc ? ) Please ignore if not suitable & I do not know how these things work any way ! Just seems a shame his talent could not be put to good use !


Much Love & Kind thoughts


Grove x x


P S ...........Dad is some times a bit like Bill not interested in planning , talking etc & hardly reads a news paper any more Mum seems to think the * Medication * is wearing off a bit x LATE EDIT ........If you want to read the Booklet I mention you can down load it ( P D F ) Its part of **The Living with Dementia Booklets ** Via the Altz Society Resources >>>> Click on Top Drop down Box Right Hand side ( top of this page ) Hope it helps x

 

[Scarlett123]

A couple of years ago, when I was able to leave John for a few hours, he was driving me to a local station, and turned right at a T-junction, without looking left - and narrowly missed being driven into by another vehicle. That was enough for me. I'd been sitting in the passenger seat for a couple of years, heavily applying my foot to the invisible brake - but this could have resulted in a fatality.

I drove us home, phoned for a taxi, and took John's car keys, and he hasn't driven since. This resulted in the most dreadful rows for quite a few months, but I was adamant. It's not his skills that worry me, it's his lack of reaction to a potential problem. He still talks about "when I was driving last week", in the same way he talks about the Other People who live in our home. Both untrue.

My fear wasn't that John could cause injuries, or worse, to himself, or me, but what he could do to someone else. I know this is a very emotive subject, but surely any form of dementia means that the sufferer's judgement is impaired?

 

[Bree]

Scarlett, you are absolutely right in my view. My OH was champing at the bit to get behind the wheel, but I ignored it and continued to drive myself. As his memory doctor took the decision for him, problem solved, he no longer mention driving. Strangely though he still wants a car key, worrying, so don't leave keys around if your OH is stopped from driving.

 

[Countryboy]

Some Talking Point members will know I have replied to Threads on Dementia verses Driving Licence this goes back to when I first joined T.P in March 2005, both my parents had dementia my Dad didn’t know what day it was leave alone drive a Car my Mum she was bright as a button at age of 93 she still did all her house work and cooking ect her dementia was paranoia , so obviously I realize that there are varying differences , fortunately my dementia hasn't effected my way of life at all, in the past 15 years , I continued working for 8 years with dementia and only retired because I was 65 , I still Drive here in Uk and other Countries with no problems what so ever changing from driving on the Right to driving on the Left , you will know from my previous replies that I had to battle the DVLA for many years to get My full driving Licence reinstated and yes Dementia or not I did achieved this because the DVLA knew that in Court they didn’t have one witness or one shred of evidence that my dementia in any way effected my ability to drive , NOT One , to sum up when I talk about Dementia / driving I’m giving my advice to those who by Law have to notify DVLA of their dementia they must Not listen to all the gossip and remember it not about you're dementia diagnoses, you have the same rights as any other person in this country the DVLA and the Courts must prove with a shadow of doubt you're not capable, but as I said previously its only you who can , not you're family, or carers

 

[susy]

I don't think many people think dementia means you cannot drive full stop. What people are saying on here to my way of reading is that people are concerned about their family members for good reason. Reasons being that they have witnesses near misses or terrible driving that will lead to an accident that may or may not injure or kill someone else. There is a massive responsibility for a person who gets behind a wheel and if someone won't take that responsibility seriously due to mental impairment then it is right to be able to discuss it here and get ideas and information as to how to proceed if needed.
My dad hung up his keys as soon as he was diagnosed. We were all glad of this. His driving was affected and he was dangerous. It is a very difficult situation for a family to see this go on and feeling helpless to interfere. Sometimes wading in can cause no end of problems.
I do hope this hasn't offended anyone, I just felt compelled to put my feelings across.

 

[Scarlett123]

When you are a Carer for someone with AD, there are so many things that you have to do, and decide, for that person. If I allow my husband to shave himself (he was adamant that he could) with an electric razor, the worst that can happen is he misses chunks of whiskers, or shaves an eyebrow off, and looks street-wise! I then finish the shave for him.

When he last tried to have a wet shave, it was quickly evident that he was in danger of cutting himself to shreds. He ranted and raved when I stopped him, but I said that I knew he liked a "proper" shave, so why don't we go to a barbers every week or 2, and he could have a wet shave there - problem solved. Not only does he really enjoy the experience, with the hot towels etc, but I'm thrilled that this is a "treat" that he can enjoy.

There are numerous occasions when John suddenly forgets how to do a task. Some days, he can put his pants on the right way round, other days he puts them on inside out and back to front. I would rather not risk that some days, he might remember where the brake is, and other days he wouldn't.

 

[Countryboy]

Hi Susy yes obviously you are correct , and there is difference in saying ( people with dementia shouldn’t drive or people ) what should be said ( some people with dementia shouldn’t drive)

how something is worded can make all the difference , unfortunately because I have dementia myself using the correct words can be difficult , but I know several people with a dementia diagnoses who are still active and capable to drive ,

Susy please don’t worry about offending me because actually I have a Full Driving
Licence now and it only took 12 years to get it , so my problems are over believe me it does make a heck of a difference with Insurers , but I never gave in

 

[Sunbell]

I really don't understand this discussion re driving when diagnosed with dementia.

I have cared for two very close relatives with dementia/alzheimers, from before they were both first diagnoses up until their deaths from this terrible illness. The reason they were both diagnosed in the first instance with these diseases was when we had to see our G.P. re difficulties regarding memory etc. etc. Then, later on, following further tests a diagnosis was given.

What I am trying to say is that had everything remained o.k. in their everyday life there would have been no reason in the first place to see a doctor, therefore anyone who has been diagnosed with this illness must have had reason to seek medical help in the first place.

Please forgive me if I have got this wrong and wouldn't dream of offending anyone as this is a very delicate illness.

I know that for my loved ones to have been diagnosed there was something wrong in the first place or we would not have had to seek medical advice and a diagnosis.

Even though life carried on almost normally with very slight difficulty at first, it became very much worse, but with even the slightest impairment in memory a split second wrong decision could have proved fateful if driving. This would have been unforgivable and both my relatives surrendered their keys voluntarily thank goodness.

Sunbell

 

[trigger]

Even though life carried on almost normally with very slight difficulty at first, it became very much worse, but with even the slightest impairment in memory a split second wrong decision could have proved fateful if driving. This would have been unforgivable and both my relatives surrendered their keys voluntarily thank goodness.


Yes wrong decision or lack of judgments could cause fatal accident with that sort of statement you would take 60% of drivers off the roads possibly less than 1% having dementia

 

[maryw]

I think what comes over in this thread is what a very emotional subject it is. Of course giving up a licence is a loss, a loss of independence, an admission of loss of ability and that is why people fight to keep their licence. I have a GP friend who told me her father was admitted to hospital recently with a suspected stroke. His first words were "I'm not going to be allowed to drive am I?" ...... The driving was his main concern .....

 

[Countryboy]

I think what comes over in this thread is what a very emotional subject it is. Of course giving up a licence is a loss, a loss of independence, an admission of loss of ability and that is why people fight to keep their licence. I have a GP friend who told me her father was admitted to hospital recently with a suspected stroke. His first words were "I'm not going to be allowed to drive am I?" ...... The driving was his main concern .....

Yes you're correct this is a very emotional subject and obviously very Personal , in many other walks of life would be DISCRIMINATION against a person with Dementia. I have to be very careful when I mention a person’s colour or person sexual behaviors or a person’s religion,

I’m a member of one of the few Alzheimer’s Society Groups of people around the Country we have seven members in our group all with dementia six members still drive 6 out of 7 now I think that well over average , but when I read through these post I realize No matter how much or what lengths we I take to Prove as an Individuals we can still live in society the Stigmas’ of the word dementia is against us even here on Talking Point forum it just proves that after all the recent publicity from various originations such as The Alzheimer’s Society “DEEP” putting out magazines such as Living With Dementia as Individuals in fact the public is a long way off accepting Us remember six out of seven still drive with dementia obviously all with support from G.P’s and Consultantssomething once again we will discus at the next meeting ,