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Negotiating Care Home Fees

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by Mimi5, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Mimi5

    Mimi5 Registered User

    Apr 22, 2017
    102
    Essex
    Just about to put Mother in Law in to a Care Home as a place has become available.

    The fees are £950 a week as she is self funding. If she were not the fees paid for by the Local Authority would be a lot less.

    Wondering if anyone has tried to negotiate the fees with a Care Home. e.g. if we paid £850 a week this would still be a lot more than the Local Authority would pay but would be a significant saving for MIL.
     
  2. lemonjuice

    lemonjuice Registered User

    Jun 15, 2016
    1,047
    England
    Have to say I tried negotiating but got told a very firm No.

    However much depends how desperate they are for 'clients'. I know my mother's Home is struggling to fill some rooms. A couple we know both needed to find a Home together after a stay in hospital and the Home not only had 2 rooms available but next door to each other so they could be near each other.
     
  3. father ted

    father ted Registered User

    Aug 16, 2010
    422
    London
    Prior to my Mum going into home I had been told this was a possibility but I must say wherever and whenever I enquired at various homes none of them wanted to know.
     
  4. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    3,962
    Salford
    If the home is part of a group you'd have to negotiate with head office, the manager won't be allowed to set the fees.
    If the home is privately owned then why should they give your MiL a discount? Any good home will have a waiting list so why should the home owner give up part of their profit just to have your MiL is the question?
    The LA get a discount because they're a regular, bulk buying customer, what leverage have you got that means your MiL should pay less.
    You can always ask either head office or the owners but as you've had to wait for a place to become available then don't be surprised if they say no.
    K
     
  5. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Registered User

    Nov 18, 2016
    596
    I’m afraid to say but you'd get no discounts around here. All the homes are full and have waiting lists.

    Same as increasing fees, they can do what they want. Its a case of take it or leave it.

    At my Mums old home they put up the fees by £50 a week and I thought that was very excessive considering they got the cheapest food, cheapest drink, hardly any heating.

    It might be worth seeing if you can get them to set that £950 for at least a year. By the way, thats surely a Nursing Home for that money isnt it? I know an elderly self funding man who went into a nursing home before xmas and they are charging him £1100 a week and as soon as he deteriorates and needs more nursing it will be even more. Scary stuff!
     
  6. Mimi5

    Mimi5 Registered User

    Apr 22, 2017
    102
    Essex
    Thanks all for the replies.

    It has been a very difficult journey of late and hubby posted that question:rolleyes: I haven't been on here for ages but it's been non stop stuff to deal with!!! Fire fighting I've called it.

    We had to get social services on board to do a mental capacity assessment and I'm glad to say the found that she didn't have capacity to make informed decisions for her health & well being and hubby has LPA (both types) We have just been offered a place at the care home of our choice:D So relieved as we have been struggling and so worried about a crisis situation arising. Hubby is feeling a bit wobbly about it, but it's for the right reasons we are placing her into a home & it's a 10 minute walk from us so we can visit and she can still come for dinner on sat.

    But SO much to do!!! She will be a nightmare to get there:eek: She has always said she would rather die than go into a care home. Funny that she had to place her mum into a care home many years back who was also suffering from dementia:( Anyway any tips????????

    I think we'll say she has to go because we need some respite (it's true!) the home are able to get a DOLs in place and we will have to see how she adjusts..............
     
  7. Amy in the US

    Amy in the US Registered User

    Feb 28, 2015
    3,127
    USA
    Don't say anything in advance.

    Don't ask her, just take her.

    And don't say anything in advance!
     
  8. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    38,683
    Amy's right: don't discuss it just do it. You already know intellectually that she can't make this decision, so you are doing the right thing making it for her.

    Depending on her views about doctors, I'd be inclined to say "your doctor days you need to be here to build up your strength" or similar. I was a bit more blunt tbh: you need more care than you can get where you are, and I can't be here to give it to you.
     
  9. la lucia

    la lucia Registered User

    Jul 3, 2011
    467
    It's a long shot and a postcode lottery but have you asked your local authority if you can pay via them?

    Not all local authorities do this but ours will allow self-funders to benefit from the rates they negotiate. The local authority then pays the bills and invoices you for payment. However, I suspect that if it's not a place that takes local authority funded clients then they won't be able to help.

    Great that you have managed to find a place so near to you though.
     
  10. love.dad.but..

    love.dad.but.. Registered User

    Jan 16, 2014
    1,356
    Maidstone.Kent
    All the homes I looked at and the home I placed dad in had the attitude that is our fee...no negotiation. Plus with annual increases of around 8% ....same thing although each year I tried to question each increase...no joy.

    I didn't tell dad to get him to his NH...only way to get him there, wasn't easy but needs must. So agree with others....tell her whatever you think she is more likely to accept..she needs expertise more than you can now give, Dr has arranged a little time to help her etc. It is likely her understanding is such that she will still be agitated but you are doing it for the right reasons because as you say you have been struggling. I would think carefully though about giving her mixed messages if she doesn't settle easily of taking her out of the home too soon or at all. I didn't take dad out at all, was very envious of relatives who could, felt a lot of regret and guilt initially but as dad took months to settle I did not want to risk undoing all our hard work in settling him. There are many tips practical/emotional in previous threads to give you some ideas. Hope it goes well
     
  11. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    4,908
    South coast
    I have heard it said that you can haggle with the care home, or negotiate with the LA, but Ive never met anyone who has actually done this successfully.

    Are you actually doing this la lucia? Forgive me if Im wrong, but I was under the impression from your recent posts that you were looking for care at home.
     
  12. la lucia

    la lucia Registered User

    Jul 3, 2011
    467
    I've had two parents get dementia... One after the other. This is still policy though, even 7 years after my father died in an EMI home.

    Also, our local authority will do the same for domiciliary care. They commission for self-funders and pay for it and invoice me for my mother's domiciliary care. That way I can pay at the same rate as local authority funded clients even though we are self-funders.

    There's a few LAs that do this but they don't always make it clear so it's always worth asking.
     
  13. Witzend

    Witzend Registered User

    Aug 29, 2007
    4,009
    SW London
    Agree 100%. It's what we had to do. Discussion would have been useless and would only have resulted in an outright refusal.
    We took my mother 'out to lunch'. After a lot of careful planning, the day went rather better than we'd dared to hope.
     
  14. Alicat64

    Alicat64 Registered User

    Jun 29, 2013
    5
    Hello.......when mum had to go into her care home almost 2 years ago we pretended it was a hotel and that she was having a small break to give the carers a rest! Admittedly it took us two attempts as mum is seriously stubborn naturally and add in dementia she became a serious challenge....it was especially hard as mum was moving from one city to be near me in another!

    It is an awful decision to make and I'm sure your hubby is wobbly but now with hindsight it was definately the right thing to do at the right time for us ..they have kept mum safe,warm, clean and communicate so well with us.... ...and the fact that it is the care home of your choice is lovely. Good luck.
     
  15. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Registered User

    Nov 18, 2016
    596
    Well this is news to me about doing it via your LA and getting it cheaper.

    Why has nobody mentioned this before?
     
  16. la lucia

    la lucia Registered User

    Jul 3, 2011
    467
    Well over the years I've mentioned it here a few times but that's how I discovered that, like so many things, it varies from LA to LA. Not all do it.That's what I explained above.

    Carers Assessments are the same. I did a straw poll on here almost a couple of years ago and was surprised at the variations in the outcomes. Our LA is dire for CAs. Some are great.
     
  17. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    3,962
    Salford
    It comes from the Statutory Guidance Notes to the 2014 Care Act, Annex A, Section 41;
    "Self-funders who ask the local authority to arrange their care
    41) The Care Act 2014 enables a person who can afford to pay for their own care and support in full to ask the local authority to arrange their care on their behalf. Where the person requires care in a care home to meet their needs, the local authority may choose to respond to the person’s request by meeting their needs."
    Link below. But you need to read on as it does say you can ask the LA, it doesn't say they have to do it.
    K

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ce/care-and-support-statutory-guidance#AnnexA
     
  18. Yellowduck

    Yellowduck Registered User

    Dec 11, 2016
    50
    Essex
    I posted about this a week or so ago, and to be honest, felt I was pretty much 'shot down in flames' as people did not seem to believe what I was told by my LA.

    I was advised that if you have money in the bank (ie you sell PWD property) you are on your own and the LA (well our local one) will not get involved until you drop below the £23k threshold.

    However, if you do not sell the PWD property and enter into a DPA, then they will negotiate the fees on your behalf and they will be lower than if you were to negotiate directly with the home. The advice I was given by my local LA finance officer, was DO NOT SELL THE PROPERTY.

    This has the added advantage that if you wish, you can also rent out the property to reduce the amount building up on the DPA.
     
  19. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    38,683
    The thing is, la Lucia is the only member I have come across who has actually been able to do this. Being told it's an option by your LA doesn't really have the same persuasive strength.

    I think the primary problem we had with your advice @Yellowduck is that you presented this as a right for all, rather than an option that might be available in a specific LA area. That just raises false hope. By all means present the information, but don't imply that it's possible for everyone.
     

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