Best Way To Pay Care Home Top-Up?

[Wirralson]

Sorry, but it's all well over my head! Lets just hope that none of it ever needs to be that complicated for me and my mum. I'll cross those bridges when I come to them - too many other, more pressing worries to think about!

Basically, if you want anything write and ask, if need be asking how you go about it. NHS records managers are very used to this and will guide you through anything you need. It's up to them to recognise whether a request is a SAR - the requester isn't expected to have a Masters' Degree in Information Rights Law. At their best, if they do have to say "no" they'll often help you find a way of ensuring that at least some of what you want happens. You won't need to know most (or any) of the legal stuff in most circumstances. In LynT's' case - it looks like she has in effect made a SAR and it is being handled as it should.

W

 

[Saffie]

Just to add that I did read up on everything I could fine about the Mental Health Act, Access to medical records, Data protection etc. before I sent off my requests. I copied relevant sections that I could quote if there were objections but was relieved to find that there were none.

 

[tarlair]

tarlair

My partner will be going into full time care soon how is it all funded.Will he have to give up his pension they have not told me much about it so in the dark.:

 

[jeany123]

Hello tarlair this fact sheet explains different ways that CH can be funded , I hope you find it useful,
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=125

Best wishes, Jeanyx

 

[Danco29]

Care homes/prices/topups????

Sorry if you've already covered this, but we've just had to choose to put my mum into a CH at the age of 62 as she was a risk to her safety and caring for her was starting to affect my dad's health too. We knew we'd have to do it one day but as with Alzheimer's she deteriorated very quickly and this has taken us by surprise so we're now dealing with the cost of things.

Can someone just clarify some points for me please:

So the person in the CH is means tested and if they have more than £23,500 -they have to pay the full amount themselves until that money runs out and then the LA pays?

Is it up to the LA what percentage the person in the CH pays if they have less than £23,500 or is there a set amount?

They really don't make any of this easy!!!

 

[Noorza]

If your capital is below £23,250, you should be entitled to financial support from your local authority.

If you have capital below £14,250 you should get full fees paid but you still contribute your income less £23.90 per week for personal expenses.

Between £14,250 and £23,250 you will pay £1 per week for each £250.

 

[Noorza]

If savings are less than £23,250 but the person has capital of much more because of home ownership, and has to go into a CH, what happens between the time of moving into a CH, before the house is sold to provide the capital to be self funding? The way the housing market is, it could possibly be a long time before the capital is available. This is likely to be the case when eventually my mum has to go into a CH.

I don't know of the legal terminology but it is funded and repaid when the house is sold.

 

[Noorza]

I'm not the best on care home funding Piph's as haven't experienced that side of things - yet anyway. (I always say yet as none of us know what the future holds).

I'm not bad on things like getting Attendance Allowance, Carer's allowance (if you spend more than 35 hours a week caring) and earn less than £100 a week. Assessing OT's for the hospital bed when she kept falling out of her own electric bed. I have no qualms about doing this as Mum worked for 40 years and Dad worked until his early death so feel she's as entitled as any.

I got her free central heating system and boiler, grant for the wet room, the list goes on......

Maybe one day I can put this information to good use for others.

 

[Grannygrouch]

Deputy ship

I am a deputy for my mother but I was wondering if anyone's knows how much my mother can actually spend of her own money in a year is there any limits on what we can buy her if she needs things .thanks hope this makes sense to other deputies maybe not given a lot of actual instructions from the court

 

[Saffie]

As far as I am aware, as long as the things bought are for your mother's benefit and you keep receipts of everything, you can spend as you see fit.
Gifts etc can be of the amount your mother would normally give.
Any repairs to a house and blls for other things are fine too.
There is a report to be filled in every year.I think you can see it online so I will try to find the link and add it it here.
It is useful to know how you have to report the expendure in the various categories.

By the way, I've just noticed that you have only just joined, so welcome. This is great place to be!

http://www.justice.gov.uk/forms/opg/deputies

Form - OPG 102

 

[Barbara P]

Does the same apply for POAs? I have spent money from my Father's account (for his personal items and cash Birthday gifts for his grandchildren he would normally have given) but have not kept recipts.

 

[Saffie]

Does the same apply for POAs? I have spent money from my Father's account (for his personal items and cash Birthday gifts for his grandchildren he would normally have given) but have not kept recipts.

It's a good idea for big outlays but no, it isn't the same. Deputies are in fact deputising for the Court of Protection who have the legal power of attourney which is why we have to provide a detailed report every year.
LPAs don't have to do this, so as long as you are acting in the best interests of the perosn for whom you have the attourneyship, you will be fine.

 

[2jays]

Does the same apply for POAs? I have spent money from my Father's account (for his personal items and cash Birthday gifts for his grandchildren he would normally have given) but have not kept recipts.

I have EPA for finance and have kept receipts. I thought it best to, just to cover myself, but I'm not sure that being an EPA or POA is as strict as being a guardian.

I was told by OPG that any gifts given, if it can be proved that it was what would have happened before, (ie from bank statements) is ok to do. So long as the gifts were not excessive that they would lower the capital too much.

 

[Saffie]

I'm not sure that being an EPA or POA is as strict as being a guardian.

It certainly isn't. As long as there is no complaint or criticism from anyone else about the way you are spending the money, the OPG won't be involved.
just ask them is you are in doubt about a big spend, they are very nice.
Now Deputyship is a whole different ball game!!!

 

[Fruitcake42]

Glad I saw this thread as I've had LPA for my mother since October 2011 as she felt unable anymore to deal with her finances. (Truth was she was starting to suffer from the onset of dementia though neither she or me and my husband realised it).

Mum finally went into a home in March 2013 after a series of bad falls and a steadily declining mental state. In the event, we decided to look after Mum's cat (on whom she absolutely doted) and brought him to our home 170 miles away. We have spent a lot of money recently because the cat has been ill - and to cover some of the costs, we have taken money from Mum's account - which I know she would readily agree to if she knew he'd been ill. We haven't told her because it would only cause her to worry ...that is, if she actually remembered what I'd told her. I have kept all receipts for these bills.

The other thing is that before Mum' deterioration became more marked in early 2011, since 2004, she always gave both me and my husband £1,500 each for Xmas and £500 each for our birthdays. As she is well off, I have carried on writing these cheques knowing that she would wish me to do so ... in fact at Xmas 2011, she actually told me to write out the cheques.

I'm not sure whether I kept her old Bradford and Bingley books from where she took some of the money she gave us or her pre-2011 bank books to prove I'm just carrying on what Mum would have done had she not deteriorated.

So Saffie's reply was very reassuring as there would be no one else around to criticise or complain about what I have done. Should Mum live long enough that her money began to dwindle, I would not take any further monies. However, she would have to be over 120 for that to happen ...she is now 88.

 

[Saffie]

See, to me that is a big spend but obviously not to you and hopefully, not to your mother either.
I'd be ringing the OPG up if I wanted to spend £1,000!

 

[Fruitcake42]

See, to me that is a big spend but obviously not to you and hopefully, not to your mother either.
I'd be ringing the OPG up if I wanted to spend £1,000!

I agree that £1000 is a lot of money. This is the reason I've kept all the bills - but of course that doesn't necessarily prove that Mum would have given the go-ahead, but I know with 100% certainty that she'd have spent as much money as it took to save her cat's life.

Though the cat now lives with us, I still think of him as Mum's cat - and so does she. Am sure if she eventually forgets who I am, she'll still remember Blackie!

 

[melbourne]

care homes

finding this a minefield, it is not just state pensions and savings under £23,000 you have to give up 50% of a private pension with no regard to the spouse left in the marital home. My husband has dementia and going downhill rapidly, we want a degree of choice and don't believe anything is free but some get much others very little, what do folk do, and what is 'breaking point' everyones journey is so very different.

 

[Koukla25]

The fact is, top-ups only come into play if the LA is wholly or partially funding care. And if that's the case, the LA MUST be able to provide a suitable home that does not require a top-up. This is actually the law. And the person being funded can't pay the top-up except in very restricted circumstances (generally relating to property). This is also written into the law.

The issue is that often there isn't a suitable home that can really meet the person's needs (not just care needs but also such things as social needs - e.g. within a suitable distance so that family can visit). In this situation often the LA will claim that it's the person's (or the family's) choice to move to the more expensive home thus meaning that top-ups need to be paid. However, this is often not an real choice. If there are no options to meet the person's needs as the LA regular rate, then the LA needs to pay the extra fee.

It's like being told "you must have either a cake for £2 or a biscuit for 50p, but we don't have any biscuits, so you must purchase a cake" - an inherently unfair bargain and one they aren't permitted to make.

Hi Jennifer- you seem really up on this subject so I wondered if I could pick your brains? My Dad was in a CH and he had to be transferred to a local NHS Psychiatric hospital as the CH couldn't provide adequate care. My Mum was still receiving bills from the CH even though Dad was not there. They said his room could not be used for anyone else as some of his things were there (very few personal items). She was also sent top up bills (which she paid). Our argument was that as dad wasn't there, they did not need to provide food, care, laundry, etc etc. We are now looking at other suitable CHs for Dad. Mum has less that £23K savings. Dad has a state and private pension. Mum gets confused about what she needs to pay and pays every bill she is sent. It's hard for me to advise her as I live outside of the UK and can't physically see the statements/bills etc. Could you point me to the direction of where I can find more info on what she has to pay and what Dad is entitled to under the NHS. I am visiting in June so hopefully I can reassure her. Many thanks for any help you can offer. It all seems very confusing.

 

[jenniferpa]

Well yes it is confusing. And I'm probably going to confuse you further as I have a number of questions, to which you may not know the answers . As I see you have a number of issues here. For a start, when your father was admitted to the hospital, was he sectioned? Was this move made after a request from the home? How long ago did this happen? Is it likely (or even possible) that he would return to this home? What sort of contract did your mother sign with the home (this is the big one because care home contracts often require you to give a months notice).

Your mother's savings aren't relevant when it comes to paying for care: only your father's and 50% of any joint savings.

Sorry as I say - a lot of questions.

Honestly, if the care home decided they were no longer willing to care for him and will not be able to do this (or you simply don't want him there any more) I would clear the room and give them notice. TBH, few care homes offer a discounted rate when their residents are in hospital (in part because apart from food, they still have to have the same number of carers on duty, run the laundry etc so unless a major portion of the residents are in hospital, they have essentially the same overheads). The one issue you might have with this is if the hospital suddenly decides he can be discharged back to this home, then he has nowhere to go, and if you require any form of LA financial support they might be sticky about it. Of course if he was sectioned (under a section 3) he will, on discharge be eligible for 117 aftercare (which essentially means that the NHS and/or the LA will then be paying for care).

If he has been sectioned then I can strongly recommend the mind sight (mind.org.uk). They have some very clear information about what sectioning is and the ramifications of the different types.

Again, sorry for all the questions.