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Who am I ? I won't know myself soon!!!

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
120
Hi @annielou
I have been following your thread for a while and I don't know how you have managed everything you do as my dad would say on one of his good days you are a Gem.;)
My dad has mixed dementia Vascular and Alzeimers he was officially diagnosed in early 2018. It was obvious something was wrong in 2016 possibly before that but mum was still alive and living with him so I didn't see them quite as much whereas now see dad 4-5 afternoons a week.

Please try and get the LPA done it will be so valuable when trying to help mum with her finances. Like you initially things were managed quite successfully as dad was able to give his permission for others to talk to us such as home contents insurer, Sky TV which we eventually had cut off as dad became unable to operate the box so paying for a service he couldn't use however we knew eventually it would become harder to deal with things.

My sister and I are Attorneys Jointly and Severally for dad before he signed his document we had chatted to him about it a few times previously and on the day. Dads GP was the Certificate Provider at a cost as done in his own time as wasn't a service provided by NHS. Would your mum accept the GP being a Certificate Provider or has GP already said they won't do?
The guy at the Memory Clinic had also mentioned it briefly when he gave dad the news he had dementia which he didn't really take in or particularly understand anyway. Guy still felt dad had capacity to do the LPA.

I think you need to try and do the forms and catch mum on a good day/moment as that is all it takes if she doesn't recall signing it later it doesn't matter.

My dad doesn't like to think anyone has control of his money and is not keen to show his Bank Statement which we arranged for him to receive ( they had stopped sending it ) so that he can look if he wants to check anything.
Despite dad knowing how much sister and I give him support along with his 4 x daily care visits he can view us with suspicion which is hurtful. I don't necessarily mean to do with money but just going upstairs to check for washing or his bathroom being clean etc. he will shout out what are you doing its so frustrating.

Sister and I both have a Bank Card with POA on it and to be honest its only been in the last 3 months that I have used his card for his shopping as he barely goes out due to his double incontinence now.and it saves one of us taking him to get cash to pay back his shopping costs.. Dad also has no idea at any time how much cash he has and sister has had to take him to cash point to stop an argument as he's convinced he has none. (Not true as he still has £180 according to sister in wallet )
We don't particularly discuss money with him but just explain a few things come out of his account automatically such as Utility Bills his Wiltshire meals and shop.
Dad will still say how much do I owe you when I take his shopping round so I have to keep saying it is paid for he say's Oh you are so good to me as he thinks I have paid for it out of my money so I do correct him on that. I keep the receipts in a book should anyone want to see them but your not talking lots of money just bits and bobs for shopping.
Dad lives in a Council House so he doesn't have too much regards us dealing with his finances he only has the one Bank Account which his Pensions and AA allowance go into so its not complicated as no other accounts to deal with.
I can imagine how many issues could crop up by not having a LPA if someone had a more complicated situation such as owning a home etc.
I don't think in-laws could be a Certificate Provider as per @Woohoo suggestion as they are still related too closely to your mum but will stand corrected if I'm wrong. I understand how difficult it must be but perhaps you need to be a little firmer with mum?
When we spoke with dad we did put the emphasis of the fact that we wouldn't be able to help him in the future as it would be illegal for us to do so.
Dad forgot his PIN a long time ago and would pass me his card in the shop luckily they knew dad well as he had shopped there for years when mum was alive but it got to the point we knew we would have to get a LPA done.
I know you are all trying your best and I hope you manage to get it done.
I too end up doing long posts so you are not the only one :).
Its nice to have a ramble and get things off your chest.
I sometimes think have I said the wrong thing, expressed the wrong emotion or come over as selfish in my posts as I have moaned about the bad relationship I have with my sister :( ( see I mentioned her again :rolleyes: ) but I think well no one knows me so perhaps its OK it helps to vent. :)
 

Woo2

Registered User
Apr 30, 2019
2,003
South East
I maybe wrong @Wildflowerlady , I frequently am :D, I just recall lady from somewhere (can’t remember where) saying in laws could be certificate provider as they had known mum for many years and they were not beneficiaries , but I too am happy to be corrected .
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
9,135
Yorkshire
regarding certificate provider
this may help make things clearer
https://www.willwriters.com/blog/the-role-of-an-lpa-certificate-provider/

esp
  1. Constraints: Who cannot be a Certificate Provider?
The following persons are excluded from acting as Certificate Providers for any LPA:
  • an Attorney or replacement Attorney for that LPA.
  • an Attorney or replacement Attorney in any other LPA or Enduring Power of Attorney the Donor made.
  • a family member of the Donor or of their Attorneys’ families including wives, husbands, civil partners, in-laws and step-relatives.
  • an unmarried partner, boyfriend or girlfriend of the Donor or of any of their Attorneys.
  • a business partner of the Donor or their Attorneys’ business partners.
  • an employee of the Donor or their Attorneys’ employees.
  • an owner, manager, director or employee of a care home where the Donor lives or a family member of a person associated with the care home.
  • anyone running or working for a trust corporation appointed as an Attorney in a Financial LPA.
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,297
Yorkshire
Thank you again for the replies and info you really are a lovely lot of people xxx
I will try again with mum on the LPA front and also explore if there are other options besides using people who know mum to sign form as on Gov.uk website it mentions needing witnesses and a certificate provider and mum doesn't really know anyone we could ask. She doesn't have friends and wouldn't want to ask neighbours as she is quite a private person and doesn't know them that well. It looks like anyone related to mum, or me, or sister wouldn't be any good either which is understandable. Maybe we would have to go down a more official route via a solicitor or something, though whether they would deem mum fit to make decision is a bit of a worry besides actually getting mum to agree and to meet with someone. But I can see things are going to get pretty complicated without it. If we cant get mum to agree to one, or can't get anyone to sign LPA, maybe we could apply to be appointee for her benefits and something similar with her bank as a way to at least continue helping her to deal with her benefits and finances. I think mum would agree to things like that as she does that now, but whether they would deem her capable of doing so is another worry.
Its so good to read other peoples perspectives and hear what they did in their situations and how they feel and its really good of people to take time to think about and even look up suggestions and answers to things I'm worrying about and to comment and say its ok to ramble too. I'm extremely grateful to you all xxxxxx
 

Bikerbeth

Registered User
Feb 11, 2019
1,310
Bedford
Hi. Although we do have LPA for finance which I am just starting to use, for Mum main bank account I did have 3rd party mandate which gave me a debit card for her account in my own right and I could also authorise payments. From what I understand you are sort of doing this now unofficially. We just went in branch,lady asked Mum if she agreed, Mum said Yes and all went through. It might help in short term. For a certificate provider we ended up using one of my friends who had known Mum for about 5 years.
Sorry to hear the you are becoming friend again so much but maybe a slight positive that she appears from what you say to be remaining calmer.
For me with Mum, once she gave a ‘slight glimmer’ of agreement to having carers in I then kept mentioning it to her as an ‘agreed’ plan of action even if sometimes she would say not yet. As Mum was self funding I was able to get Carers in quite quickly and once they started she liked the company if nothing else. If you think it is possible then maybe use the AA money to find a Carer to come in until SW sorts something. Yes it would be good to have same care company but maybe you could use this carer to do something difference so it also gives you a break (maybe take your Mum shopping for example)
Please feel free to ignore all suggestions but sending you some virtual hugs
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,297
Yorkshire
Thanks @Bikerbeth x
While I was me for a few hours yesterday Mum mentioned she'd had a letter the day before about giving her money for a carer, she said 'its so I can pay for it but we got to find them I think'. I said 'oh yes well me and sis can have a look and find you one then'. She said 'I thought you would, thats what me and 'friend' said yesterday'. So I'll keep casually mentioning it while its popping in her mind in a positive way as if its an 'agreed to' thing too, and me and sis can try get someone sorted.
If we cant sort an LPA we could try that with bank instead too, thanks I'll know what to ask for if we do now x
 

Vitesse

Registered User
Oct 26, 2016
198
We organised the LPA when my husband was first diagnosed, but even then he was always negative about someone else, even his wife, controlling his money. I got around it by saying I needed to be able to speak to the bank on the phone, as he can’t hear very well. For about 2 years, I haven’t had to use the POA because most of the banking can be done on the Internet, and he could just about give them his security details if we phoned the bank. Now he has deteriorated to such an extent that he wouldn’t be able to communicate with anyone by phone or in person, so the LPA is coming into use, for things like the internet provider and sky TV. I have also used the POA to change our joint account into my name only, because if he saw the account he would get agitated about where his pension is and why I’m spending HIS money!!!
If you can get it organised you will find life slightly easier. Certainly sounds as if Mum is persuaded that the AA is to pay for carers, that sounds good.
Hope it all works out, you are obviously getting very anxious about this whole situation and I recognise those symptoms very well. Please tell your GP about your panic attacks, and shaking etc. It is the anxiety and it’s so difficult to find a way through it.
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,297
Yorkshire
Thanks for the reply x
Been to gps today with mum and she has been referred to to rapid chest pain clinic to see if she has a problem with her heart.
When memory worker visited on Thursday mum told her she had a bit of a pain in her chest that comes and goes sometimes. Mum had said to me that her arm was aching and then her shoulder on wednesday but she thought it was because she had slept on it funny, she said her chest didn't hurt when I asked. She didn't mention it to me on thursday but when MW asked her if feeling ok she said her chest hurt sometimes, MW asked if her arm hurt too and mum said no so I told her what mum had said day before. MW said if it got worse or kept happening to contact gp or 111 but she must have contacted gps herself because mum had an answer phone msg on thursday saying MW had been in touch and so they were calling to make mum an appointment.
I couldnt get though on friday and so rang today and got an appointment. When I told mum got an appointment today she wanted to know why and when I said why she said chest hurt today a bit and her arm was tingling a bit. The gp asked mum a bit about pain and how long had been, mum said been on and off for a month or so, it wasnt sharp just there and occasionaly pulled a bit and sometimes her arm tingled. He asked her a few questions about if worse when breathing, or exerted herself, and if had any previous heart problems which mum said no to. Mums ct scan had showed evidence of a small stroke in centre of her brain that memory team dr said mum probably wouldnt have been aware of so I told him about that and also that mum had years ago been to hospital and diagnosed with peripheral arterial disease in her leg but that as it hadn't got worse she had been discharged.He took her blood pressure which was high, it had been when MW took it and has been for quite a while. Then he listened to her chest and he said there was a slight murmur and asked if we had been told about it. Years ago, think when mum had ecg etc to do with her leg, she'd been told about it but said it wasn't anything bad or that noticeable. GP said as pain had been there on and off for a while, it affected her left side and arm and she had furring of arteries in her leg it could be her heart and so he wanted to refer to Rapid chest pain clinic for her to be checked out first. He said we should hear pretty soon about appointment. I'm hoping she's ok, we really don't need anything else, poor mum.
Mum wasn't really sure why we were going to gps or what he said so I've tried to not worry her too much and say he just sending her for test and a check up.
Its been a busy day for calls today, SW rang this morning to ask a couple of questions for form for day care this week. While she was on she mentioned sis had asked after we were sent care plan if respite was for emi as it didn't say so on latest care plan but it had on original. SW said she had not put emi as thought if mum went in home with people in later stages of dementia it might upset and unnerve her but if we wanted to keep it as emi we could. I said I think originally other SW put that so mum couldnt just walk out as she thought she might and also when she is sundowning she can get pretty badly confused and anxious and might need quite a bit of attention so she said we could leave that as before but change it anytime if we wanted. I'm not sure if what she thinks is right and mum might be distressed in emi for respite, if SW thinks mum is not that bad and doesn't require emi care yet.
I also told SW mum had got her letter to say got AA this week and we were hoping to arrange a carer to come one day a week to sit with mum so I didnt have to go everyday, she asked if we still wanted her to carry on with the carers on care plan and I said yes, we couldn't afford much with AA so still wanted them too.
Besides caling gp this morning I also called memory clinic to check on mum prescriptions as MW had said she would ring thursday afternoon or friday to let me know if upping mums sertraline like she suggested and if we could get next lot of galantamine earlier too. A mistake was made by chemist on last galantamine prescription and the printed label on box said one tablet twice a day rather than once a day. Luckily I knew it was only one a day and so I gave mum right dose and I also checked with memory team when I realised too so it was ok. But mum is hopefully going to daycentre on wednesday and they require tablets in strip in orignal box with label on which I cant give in the box I've got. I was hoping we might be able to get the prescription which is due this weekend earlier, but unfortunately they said today it cant be done so I'll have to not send tablets to day centre this time and give mum it later in the afternoon when she gets back instead of with lunch.
Manager rang from day centre to check few things bout mum including her tablets, so told her I wouldn't send any this week and why but would do if mum goes again. We talked a bit about how mum might not go or not want to stay and her needing encouragement and she was really nice and understanding and said they'd do their best and hoped mum got something out of it.
Mum asked who I was talking to afterwards so I told her it was day centre manager asking for few details for when mum goes cos mum told SW she would give it a go and mum said oh yeah and pulled a bit of a face. I didn't tell her it was wednesday she was going to go, thought I'd try and leave that for now but just mention going as if it was agreed on. She didn't say anything else about it as she was quite distracted getting changed for gps appointment at the time and busy asking me why she was going over and over.
We came back to mine after gps and mum asked a few times where been and why but was quite calm about it. By 4 oclock she had lost me and I was friend again, I flitted a bit between friend Andrea and daughter Andrea for a little bit but then was just friend Andrea. After we took her home she rang me asking where I was and why didnt I say I wasn't coming home.She thought she had been to hospital with someone else and hadnt seen me and thought I wasn't talking to her or visiting her. She asked me to go see her tomorrow and then got upset she didn't know it was me and saying I had to keep telling her it was me and was she mental.
I tried to reassure I hadn't fallen out with her and wouldn't and that she had known it was me earlier, its just at end of day when she gets a bit tired and her brain mixes things up a bit but its ok it doesnt matter we're fine and not to worry about it it was nothing. I think it worked eventually as she seemed to calm down and then we said night with promises I'd see her tomorrow.
I hope Rapid clinic appointment comes by letter or if by phone that they phone when I'm at mums and I answer because GP said as a quick referral they may ring and if mum answers on her own she'll not remember what they say.
 

Starting on a journey

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
287
I have all mums medical calls routed to my mobile, it avoids the need for mum to answer the phone (mums losing that skill). Many services text reminders which are really helpful
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,297
Yorkshire
I have all mums medical calls routed to my mobile, it avoids the need for mum to answer the phone (mums losing that skill). Many services text reminders which are really helpful
Thanks x I think I will ask next time if they can use my mobile instead of mums home phone, maybe see if they can add it to her records. I did give my mobile no to gp receptioist a little while ago when they were checking something and ringing us back, I said that it was better to ring that number as not always at mums and she gets confused on phone, receptionist used it that time but when called since they have rung mums home. I'll try to give them my number in future.
 

TNJJ

Registered User
May 7, 2019
1,542
cornwall
Thanks x I think I will ask next time if they can use my mobile instead of mums home phone, maybe see if they can add it to her records. I did give my mobile no to gp receptioist a little while ago when they were checking something and ringing us back, I said that it was better to ring that number as not always at mums and she gets confused on phone, receptionist used it that time but when called since they have rung mums home. I'll try to give them my number in future.
Hi. If your mum gives verbal permission to talk to you over the phone. They can put it on computer screen and will then contact you directly. That’s what they did with dad. I can then discuss him with the doc.
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,297
Yorkshire
Hi. If your mum gives verbal permission to talk to you over the phone. They can put it on computer screen and will then contact you directly. That’s what they did with dad. I can then discuss him with the doc.
Thanks x next time we go I'll do that while mums there, she is usually happy for me to talk on phone for her as she doesnt like doing it so I'm pretty sure she'd be fine to agree to it.
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,297
Yorkshire
Not having good day today. Sis just messaged me with email SW sent her saying now mum has AA she now has accessible income to pay for her care plan. So the money mum gets for AA £87 a week plus another £16 will be classed as AI and will have to be paid to SS towards her care plan for carers, day centre and respite if she has it.
Then during messaging sister about it mum lost who I was, she said 'friend' said she could be her carer but couldn't do it all the time and she started asking and moaning about why our Andrea had not been because she had rung her yesterday and sed she would. Then she started asking who I was but sayin I'm not her daughter and not 'friend' and questioning me to try work things out, which of course she cant no matter what I say she cant follow it just gets more upset and so now we're both upset.
And I'm also thinking maybe we shouldn't have applied for AA cos if money coming to mum and then has to go straight to SS its more complicated than not having it and SS just providing what can.
Maybe we should tell SS not to provide carers and just get our own which we could at least time how we wanted rather than SS times. For hours they offered it would cost more privately but not that much.
Why is this all so complicated
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
279
Hi Annielou
I have been away for a couple of weeks and have just caught up with reading your thread. Your mum is so lucky to have such a kind and caring daughter.
I hope that the appointment for the chest clinic comes through promptly. Do you have a contact number for them that you could ring and explain that your mum would forget if they phoned her and that please would they contact you with the information as you are the person who will take her to the appointment.
I hope that all goes well at the day centre and your mum enjoys the company xx
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
279
Hi Annielou
Our posts have just crossed, sorry to hear that you're not having a good day. So disappointing to think that your mum would have the AA to pay for some extra care, and that now it will just be used by SS to fund the care package. How many visits to her home, day centre etc have they assessed. Is it worth saying that you can't help out as much to see if they will arrange more visits ( you could still go to see your mum when the carers aren't scheduled, if you see what I mean, but it may result in more visits to release you of some of the pressure). You are doing so much I just feel that SS should be doing more to help you to continue to look after your mum as you want to do xx
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,297
Yorkshire
Thanks @anxious annie x
Looked online but no contact number to call chest pain clinic so will have to hope for best that send letter or I'm here when letter comes. X
I was bit naive about SS and AA, I didn't realise it would all go to them.
Care plan has 3x30 minute visits a day and £35 towards cost of 1 day care centre visit a week, we had to pay about £10 to that as day care is a about 3 pound more plus cost of meal and community transport pick up. And 4 weeks respite a year.
That is all SW would offer, all she thought mum needed, I got the impression she thought I was overreacting and making things worse than they were.
 

Starting on a journey

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
287
I think it would cost a lot more than £86 to find 21 half an hour visits per week privately! I was quoted £20 per hour and £4 for each trip so that would be £42 per day to get what they have offered you.

I did not realise that AA was taken into account when assessing income for social care but it is a gateway for you to claim carers allowance and council tax would be zero rated for your mum if she paid it. She may also we entitled to pension credit now she has AA, a benefit check may help.

I am so sorry with everything else going on and your mums chest pains you are now being thrown around by a broken care system.
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,297
Yorkshire
I think it would cost a lot more than £86 to find 21 half an hour visits per week privately! I was quoted £20 per hour and £4 for each trip so that would be £42 per day to get what they have offered you.

I did not realise that AA was taken into account when assessing income for social care but it is a gateway for you to claim carers allowance and council tax would be zero rated for your mum if she paid it. She may also we entitled to pension credit now she has AA, a benefit check may help.

I am so sorry with everything else going on and your mums chest pains you are now being thrown around by a broken care system.
Thanks x SW says starting at 30 mins for visits but if doesnt need 30 minutes which is likely they will reduce to 15 minutes a visit. The visits are to prompt mum to pick clean clothes wash hair if day and shower and give tablet (morning) prompt to eat lunch and give tablet (lunchtime) prompt to eat and give tablet (dinnertime). Mum will be stopping with dinnertime tablet soon so would just be visiting to prompt to eat and she wasnt sure if could offer visit for that.
I know arranging private caters would be more expensive but I would still visit mum at weekends and a couple of days in week so if doing privately wouldn't need 3 visits a day everyday as I would be here instead.
I don't know if that would be better or not. As mum gets worse and needs more care if we had own carers rather than SS would we be on our own and not eligible to access any help then?
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
279
Hi Annielou
Your mum is often confused and anxious, I would have thought that she is in need of more company ( SS shouldn't be expecting you to provide this, although I know you do because you want to be there for your mum). To suggest that 1 day centre plus 3 X 30 minute daily visits (which could reduce to a quick in and out 15 minutes ) is adequate , seems to me to be so short of what she needs. It's so hard for both the carer and the pwd, but SW just don't seem to understand this. Sending you and your family a big hug.