Used Mum's savings for top up

[Raggedrobin]

I am the only benefactor of Mum's will and when it came to paying a huge top up, she had about £20k still in the bank and I decided to use her savings before using my own to pay the top up for the care home. I knew this wasn't what you are supposed to do but I kind of resented taking money out of my own account when there was still money in hers.
Fast forward, she is now 100 and after I used up her money, I have paid the top up from my own until I have got to a point I am no longer willing to do so. The council has agreed to pay her full fee now but of course they want me to show her finances (I have PoA) and it will show up now that I actually partly used her money for the top up.
My question is, is there anything the council can do about me having used her savings to pay her top up fee? I am sure it said somewhere that I wasn't supposed to be to be honest I thought she would be dead before I had to have another financial assessment for her. I can tell the council that I will fund her funeral and any other costs that come up out of my money.
I regret going against the rules now, wondered if anyone has any experience of this? Thanks for reading.

 

[Duggies-girl]

I have edited my post as I may have been incorrect but someone who knows better than me will help you out soon, I am sure.

Sorry.

 

[jenniferpa]

The normal procedure if assets have been reduced in such a way as this is for the la to basically assume that the assets have not been reduced and treat them as if they are still there. This means that even if they are fully funding the placement they will expect an appropriate tariff income to be paid.

 

[Raggedrobin]

Thanks Jennifer. But what does a tariff income mean? As under £23K is ignored, how would that work? I have been worrying myself sick about this. Stupid that I did it really.

 

[love.dad.but..]

I can't offer any advice there are very knowledgable people of TP able to do that but just wanted to say I hope you are able to sort this without too much worry we try and make decisions at times whether right or wrong so I feel for you

 

[Raggedrobin]

Thanks very much LoveDad. i appreciate your comment because I am feeling really down about all this, like I have commited a major crime or something when all I have done is used her own money. The top up fee was over £1000 a month and I paid it for 3 years, using her savings and mine, it amounts to a lot of money. I like to think of myself as being quite savvy financially but I am really scared of the consequences of using her money. I am also tired of being the only person dealing with her finances. I have done it for a long time but I am just kind of fed up with it all.

 

[maldives]

I can't see that they would have a problem with that? You used your mum's money for her not yourself.
Do you have to have a financial assessment every year for your mum's care then? Only asking as I and my husband are both disabled and have care at home and we have direct payments from the council to pay for our care, and we pay £200 per moth towards it.
Do let me know more then i maybe able to tell you what you need to know!

 

[maldives]

Sorry to hear that you feel so worn out with it all.......it's very hard when you are doing it all by yourself you need to be able to talk to someone as well you know..))
When you had your financial assessment did they know your mum had the £20,000 pounds? If they did then there is no reason why you cannot use this on your mum's care you haven't stolen it or anything you have tried to keep her in a comfortable environment that's all......there is no wrong doing there, you need to stop worrying yourself to death about it really you do.......we have a private carer that we pay for through PAYE and we have an assessment every yr and the council pay a part of it for us and then we pay the rest at £200.00 per month.

 

[Raggedrobin]

When you sign up to pay a 'top up' fee in a care home, there is a clause somewhere that says you are not allowed to use the person's savings for the top up. Apparently it is so there is money for the funeral etc as I understand it.
Mum was previously self funding in the care home but since her money went down to the 23k limit she has been paid for by the council, who then asked me for a top up fee. I don't think the same savings rule applies to people with care at home, Maldives?

 

[maldives]

Sorry i wanted to add that yes if you have under £23, 400 in the bank then that's not counted for at all. my mums in a home and we have to pay for her at the staggering sum of £895.00 a week £50,000 per year! the house was sold and we have £200.000 left, but that's only going to get her another 4 yrs care....when she's down to the 23K they will help pay for her care ironic really.....keep your chin up, I know it's hard and my kindest regards to you and your situation.x

 

[jenniferpa]

Tariff income is £1 per £250 per week on savings between the upper and lower level. So on 20k, the expected payment per week will be £80, and drop from there. This should have been being paid anyway as your mother was being la funded. What concerns me is that all this time you've been paying this top up, this issue hasn't come up before. To clarify your mother should have been paying her pensions and this tariff income less the personal expense allowance for her care. Has she been?

@maldives when a person is in care, the assets between the upper and lower level are counted for the purpose of assessing tariff income which must be paid.

 

[maldives]

Then if that's right about not being able to use your mum's savings then like you say if you have to save enough for the funeral like you have said before you can only say that you will pay for it and anything else you will need for it.
I have never heard about that one, it's such a maze all this claiming business when you don't know the system its mind blowing it really is..........I don't see that you could get in any serious trouble for that it was your mum's and used for her.. although I'm not there with my mum anytime soon it will be in 4 yrs time i will go through what you have...))
I learnt a long time ago not to worry myself death about it all because it will still be there next week! It was so nic talking to you and i wish you all the luck in the world........xx

 

[Raggedrobin]

Oh dear, my head hurts! Thanks for replying again Jennifer. So as far as I can see, Mum's pensions are taken into account but she hasn't been paying a thing called a tariff income. I assume as it was what I was paying on her behalf, plus the council's contribution, so I assume the council's contribution covered anything else.

I don't really want to do this but if I ended up paying £80 per week because Mum has been deprived of her £20k, I am thinking it would be better to just pay £20K, my own savings, into her account to prevent this from happening?

 

[Raggedrobin]

Thanks for your comments, Maldives. Yes, sounds like you will also be in the 'top up' situation in four years

 

[jenniferpa]

I think you should call the help line for advice because this is a bit of a pickle. You haven't been paying tariff income, you've used your mother's funds to pay a top up when you shouldn't have - this is going to have financial implications and you need someone to at least give you some idea what you should do to sort this out.

This is really beyond the scope of this forum and you are quite possibly going to need professional legal advice. But I'd call the help line first to at least get an idea.

 

[Raggedrobin]

Thanks Jennifer, I will do that. Still interested to hear from anyone else who has had a similar experience.

 

[Duggies-girl]

@Raggedrobin

Sorry I deleted my post but could not see that you had done anything wrong (I still don't) but then I googled it and found the facts.

I am horrified that you have had to pay out all of that money while your mum still had money in the bank. Does not seem fair when you have done so much for your mum. It has made me think.

I thought my dad would be able to cover his own fees if he needs to go into a home but did not consider him living to 100 (sorry I am writing in italics, don't know how that happened)

I really hope it all works out as we have enough to worry about. Seems very unfair to me.

 

[Raggedrobin]

Thanks. I kind of thought it wasn't too serious until I read Jennifer's posts and the stuff about tariffs. They did offer Mum a cheaper home to move to but it had a bad reputation and at 97 she was finally settled in the home we had been paying for.
What I regret now is that if there is some sort of back payment due I will need to do that from my own money and if I had realised that I would have stopped paying the top up fee, or paid a lot less, from an earlier date. I was just thinking though, I have been head in the sand about it all. The truth is I just want it all to end, to be over.

 

[Raggedrobin]

Oh phew what a relief, just found something that shows the tariff income is taken into account and has been treated as part of her income, so I have been paying that. So I guess if I tell them what I have done and carry on paying the tariff income that should be okay. We shall see.

 

[jenniferpa]

That is good news.