Section 3: disagree with treatment plan

Bronte_girl

New member
Sep 1, 2023
5
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Hello all,
First post here (aside from introducing myself a few months ago).
My lovely dad (73) has moved dementia, he was diagnosed in 2020. Things have sadly deteriorated and long story short he is being detained under section 3, in a psychiatric unit. He has been there approximately 6 weeks, and in that time he has totally deteriorated.
He went from being himself to now in a zombie like state. Before being in hospital he had good speech, could converse with people, recognised his family, could enjoy activities like throwing a ball, watch tv, and he also had good mobility and could walk unaided.

His ‘treatment’ in the psych hospital has been to stop all his previous meds, including lorazepam prn, and put him on a twice daily dose of diazepam which has increased each week. He has become unrecognisable. My lovely dad has gone and he is like a shell of his former self. He can now barely recognise his family, he does not smile, and has no interest in anything. He can barely talk and just mumbles a few incoherent words every now and then. He is also very unsteady on his feet and requires 2 people supporting him to walk, and he can only walk a few steps at a time without becoming unsteady. He had been aggressive to staff on the unit, and could be unpredictable, and I feel the staff find him more manageable in his current state. Although he can still be aggressive so I don’t think the problems have been solved, and in my mind he is now far worse off than when he arrived there. They have sacrificed his personality and emotions to make him complaint and docile, all he does is sit in a chair and stare at the floor.

It has been horrifying to see him change in such a short period of time. We have had several informal meetings and phone calls with his doctor, who does not take our concerns on board and carries on with his treatment plan which is to increase the diazepam more. We feel totally helpless, and are desperate for them to dramatically reduce his diazepam dose and ideally stop it all together, as we just cannot bear to see him like this, and know it must be the drugs as it has all happened since being there.

We have a meeting tomorrow with this doctors supervisor (a consultant, who apparantly oversees his work as he is still a psychiatrist in training). We have not met this consultant before, but I am keen to put forward my point of view and for him to agree to lower the dose. We have been told as he is under a section 3 we have no legal say in his treatment for his dementia. My questions are:

Has anyone been in a similar situation where by you disagree with the treatment plan of a loved one on a section 3?
Does anyone know legally what our rights are and how we can challenge their medical decision if it comes to that?

Any advice greatly appreciated, I’m so desperate to get a bit of my dad back, and I really don’t believe this current treatment is in his best interests.
Thanks in advance
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
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Kent
Hello @Bronte_girl

I have no idea of your legal rights regarding your dad`s treatment. I`m sorry.

If you ask the consultant the right questions you should be able to get answers which might explain the treatment they are using with him.

I know medication often has to be `tweaked` before the correct dose is found. This may be the case with your dad.

Write down any questions you may have so you don`t forget. You won`t want to leave the meeting and realise you have forgotten something you wanted to ask. This often happens, especially when family members are upset.
 

Bronte_girl

New member
Sep 1, 2023
5
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Thank you for replying, and for your advice.
I definitely will be asking lots of questions and taking notes.
I appreciate the reply late at night! Had to get this off my mind, as I’m feeling quite alone right now. ❤️
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
7,149
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Salford
You seem to see sectioning used a lot less these days, much more common now is a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding Order (DoLS), In England anyway, I don't know what the difference is between them.
All I can say they believe it's in his best interests to be detained this way and they do have a "duty of care" to him, not the family as such.
K
 

Bronte_girl

New member
Sep 1, 2023
5
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You seem to see sectioning used a lot less these days, much more common now is a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding Order (DoLS), In England anyway, I don't know what the difference is between them.
All I can say they believe it's in his best interests to be detained this way and they do have a "duty of care" to him, not the family as such.
K
Thanks for your reply.
I don’t have a problem with him being detained. But I don’t believe his current treatment plan is in his best interests, he has essentially been muted and is now in a zombie like state. There are other options out there to try, I just want them to consider trying them as the current plan is not working.
 

Glasgalass

New member
Nov 19, 2023
9
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Hi @Bronte_girl,

My Mum was detained for assessment in an acute psychiatric ward 2 months ago. I was told the assessment process would take 6-8 weeks. She initially went in due to aggressive and psychotic behaviour.

This was in Scotland so could be different down south but they also stopped her normal meds and she was put on risperadone. Like your dad's she's not the same person so I fought to get her out on a '1 week home pass' at week 4. I didn't have any rights as they had legally detained her as she was a danger to herself and others.. But at week 4 she wasn't (due to new meds) so they agreed for her to be allowed home for the 1 week pass. She didn't return to hospital and was discharged when the week finished.

But things are still not right with her Meds now shes home. She needs 24/7 care and when she missed a dose of her new meds by accident- her behaviour was extreme. So what i need to consider is that the deterioration could also be due to the disease taking hold causing a secondary mood disorder (she was only diagnosed in May).

You can ask...what expectations the consultant has for your dad to meet discharge? It sounds like he is not a danger to himself or others but you said some bits of aggression still creep in. You could also ask for an alternative med to the diazepam, say that you feel he's too sedated etc...they need to listen to your views and concerns.

Hope this helps and good luck for tomorrow x
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
7,149
0
Salford
I understand that in Scotland there is also called a Compulsorily Supervision Order (or was) similar to but not the same as a DoLS in England. Other parts of the UK may have different regulations.
K
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
7,149
0
Salford
Sectioing and Dols are far from the same thing Kevini.
Why or how did he end up sectioned, Bronte?
In so far as they're both legal ways to "detain" someone for their own good/safety I don't see how they differ that much.
K
 

SeaSwallow

Volunteer Moderator
Oct 28, 2019
6,801
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In so far as they're both legal ways to "detain" someone for their own good/safety I don't see how they differ that much.
K
Technically they differ quite a lot. DOLs will apply in a care home setting to keep the person safe. . When someone is sectioned they will be detained in a specialist ward or specialist hospital because they are believed to be a danger to themselves or others. Sectioning is not done lightly.
 

SAP

Registered User
Feb 18, 2017
1,605
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@Bronte_girl , has your dad been appointed an Approved Mental Health Professional? This is someone, usually a social worker who should be involved to ensure that the care is appropriate and in his best interests.
I was under a DOLs in the neurology in an NHS hospital.
K
The DoLs comes under the Mental Capacity Act, sectioning comes under the Mental Health Act. Someone can have capacity and be sectioned but they have to be assessed as having no capacity for DoLs.