Personality vs Dementia?

[jay6]

The last few days have really made me think about this one.
My OH has always been a bit difficult , controlling and self centred, but obviously now has dementia.
I've kept a diary and been going through it. There has been days where I can say 'Yes it's dementia' but others where he seems perfectly 'normal' so wonder how much he may be playing on it for attention.
If I just sit on laptop, watch TV or read, he will just sit on sofa, un-motivated, expecting to be waited on. But if I've popped out, he puts his shoes on and goes into garden or moves about. I know this because things move/change.
If I go into garden and do something, he moves off the sofa and potters around. Making a cup of tea, eating biscuits etc.
He can go for hours without any communication with me but chats away for an hour when his sister phones. He knows that drives me mad.
If I say he should try to do something for his mobility, there is a major argument with excuses as to why he can't. That normally ends with some childish remark like 'Oh I'll get the ladder and clean the gutters'.
This morning I asked what he thought about, which ended in a major confrontation, so I left him to it and spent the whole day upstairs, apart from making dinner etc. He wasn't at all bothered that I wasn't in room. I could hear him pottering about. He went into garden for a walk, made tea, got biscuits/cake etc. Now I'm sure this is his controlling behaviour coming through. He thinks I'm where he wants me, because this has happened in past.
Now I can hear him actually washing up the dinner things. Something he hasn't done for weeks.
How I would like a glimpse inside his head

 

[SeaSwallow]

I know that every person with dementia is different but it does seem to me that it can result in a persons previous personality traits becoming stronger.
Not always though, my dad was quite an irritable person and complete changed as his memory got worse.

 

[ged626red]

Honestly the best thing to do maybe is to do exactly the opposite of what he thinks or knows you will do and see if if that works - failing that I would ring Dementia Connect for advice - good luck. Apparently arguing with someone with dementia is not good - easier said than done though

 

[Jerac]

This is an interesting thread. My husband has always been kind & caring but had the habit of stonewalling in order to get the result wanted. Always in the most gentle way. I lacked the confidence in myself to often challenge him & hold out for what I wanted.
Now, with his dementia, this stubborn side of his character is really evident. Recently he was given exercises by the GP to help his mobility which is very poor. He assured the GP that of course he could do them if prompted by me. However at home despite my prompting, he absolutely will not even try. I find this so frustrating & it has added to my stress levels considerably!
Looking back I can see how frequently he has done this in the past but with more subtlety.
How much is dementia & how much is personality? Does dementia expose areas of oersonality that have been kept hidden?

 

[sapphire turner]

I have read that as people with dementia lose control of their conscious mind, they rely more and more on their unconscious ability to fill in responses to situations as they always have. This can make them seem like a cartoon version of their old selves which is convincing to people they don’t see much but feels off and often hurtful to their nearest and dearest.
The old back and forth responses to old arguments and their complete denial that anything is wrong can feel like gaslighting. I had years of people saying to me ‘well he seems okay to me’ like I was the mad person. As he drifts through moderate dementia now it is harder for him to keep up the pretence, but it is fascinating to see him try. I can now see all the old dominating tricks he used to play on me, it’s like a glimpse behind the wizard of oz’s curtain 😹😹😹
Sending love to you all

 

[Knitandpurl]

The last few days have really made me think about this one.
My OH has always been a bit difficult , controlling and self centred, but obviously now has dementia.
I've kept a diary and been going through it. There has been days where I can say 'Yes it's dementia' but others where he seems perfectly 'normal' so wonder how much he may be playing on it for attention.
If I just sit on laptop, watch TV or read, he will just sit on sofa, un-motivated, expecting to be waited on. But if I've popped out, he puts his shoes on and goes into garden or moves about. I know this because things move/change.
If I go into garden and do something, he moves off the sofa and potters around. Making a cup of tea, eating biscuits etc.
He can go for hours without any communication with me but chats away for an hour when his sister phones. He knows that drives me mad.
If I say he should try to do something for his mobility, there is a major argument with excuses as to why he can't. That normally ends with some childish remark like 'Oh I'll get the ladder and clean the gutters'.
This morning I asked what he thought about, which ended in a major confrontation, so I left him to it and spent the whole day upstairs, apart from making dinner etc. He wasn't at all bothered that I wasn't in room. I could hear him pottering about. He went into garden for a walk, made tea, got biscuits/cake etc. Now I'm sure this is his controlling behaviour coming through. He thinks I'm where he wants me, because this has happened in past.
Now I can hear him actually washing up the dinner things. Something he hasn't done for weeks.
How I would like a glimpse inside his head

This could be me writing this…. However, as time has passed I no longer think he is trying consciously to ‘control’ me as he did in the past, I think like others have said it’s a subconscious reversal to old behaviours, added to the fact that I am his comfort blanket so if I’m there he can relax and do nothing, but if I go out or am busy out the way he has to find something to do to calm the raised anxiety levels. He also often seems quite proud of what he’s done and thinks he’s been helping and that I’ll be pleased with him. Realising these things has made it easier for me to ignore his behaviours, I now feel a whole lot less guilty than I used to when I go round to see my daughter (she only lives 5-10 minutes walk away).

 

[jay6]

@SeaSwallow Thanks for contributing. Think that's definitely a possibility.

@ged626red Thanks for contributing. You are right about wasting time trying to argue with a PWD. But my doubts are he is as bad as given to believe. Others can't see much of a change, always been a good actor.

 

[jay6]

This is an interesting thread. My husband has always been kind & caring but had the habit of stonewalling in order to get the result wanted. Always in the most gentle way. I lacked the confidence in myself to often challenge him & hold out for what I wanted.
Now, with his dementia, this stubborn side of his character is really evident. Recently he was given exercises by the GP to help his mobility which is very poor. He assured the GP that of course he could do them if prompted by me. However at home despite my prompting, he absolutely will not even try. I find this so frustrating & it has added to my stress levels considerably!
Looking back I can see how frequently he has done this in the past but with more subtlety.
How much is dementia & how much is personality? Does dementia expose areas of oersonality that have been kept hidden?

Mine has been given exercises for the last 10 years since a stroke, so before the dementia. Always told Physio he did them all but lied. Never did any. If I said anything in front of the Physio, he would always come up with. 'You never see me do it' and made me out to be the liar. But I know he definitely didn't. Which is why his mobility just got worse. I know I wasn't there 24/7 but I'm not as stupid as he thinks.
His bad bits are certainly accelerated, the more control he's lost, the worse he's become trying to regain it.

 

[jay6]

I have read that as people with dementia lose control of their conscious mind, they rely more and more on their unconscious ability to fill in responses to situations as they always have. This can make them seem like a cartoon version of their old selves which is convincing to people they don’t see much but feels off and often hurtful to their nearest and dearest.
The old back and forth responses to old arguments and their complete denial that anything is wrong can feel like gaslighting. I had years of people saying to me ‘well he seems okay to me’ like I was the mad person. As he drifts through moderate dementia now it is harder for him to keep up the pretence, but it is fascinating to see him try. I can now see all the old dominating tricks he used to play on me, it’s like a glimpse behind the wizard of oz’s curtain 😹😹😹
Sending love to you all

Gasslighting - Tell me about it. I've had that for years. Nothing ever his fault etc. and yes people can make you feel it's you that's mad when they put on such a show. I think that's how a controlling person gradually takes over. You loose your self confidence.
Can't wait to see the pretence getting harder that will fascinate me too.
Sending love back to you. We need to stay strong.

 

[jay6]

This could be me writing this…. However, as time has passed I no longer think he is trying consciously to ‘control’ me as he did in the past, I think like others have said it’s a subconscious reversal to old behaviours, added to the fact that I am his comfort blanket so if I’m there he can relax and do nothing, but if I go out or am busy out the way he has to find something to do to calm the raised anxiety levels. He also often seems quite proud of what he’s done and thinks he’s been helping and that I’ll be pleased with him. Realising these things has made it easier for me to ignore his behaviours, I now feel a whole lot less guilty than I used to when I go round to see my daughter (she only lives 5-10 minutes walk away).

Nice to know I'm not going mad. Not sure mine appreciates anything I do yet or sees me as a comfort blanket, with the nastiness.
I don't think he does things while I'm out to calm himself down. Really doesn't seem at all stressed but then he is on calming tablets for his aggression.
Never does much but when he does he makes such a big issue of how I should appreciate it. As I said last night I heard him washing up. This morning I find 3/4 of it still unwashed. When I asked why he hadn't done it all he just kicked off, telling me how I'm always 'picking on him' and always looking to be nasty. It was a simple question, no raised voices, even smiling as I said it.
I just gave up and walked away.

 

[SeaSwallow]

Nice to know I'm not going mad. Not sure mine appreciates anything I do yet or sees me as a comfort blanket, with the nastiness.
I don't think he does things while I'm out to calm himself down. Really doesn't seem at all stressed but then he is on calming tablets for his aggression.
Never does much but when he does he makes such a big issue of how I should appreciate it. As I said last night I heard him washing up. This morning I find 3/4 of it still unwashed. When I asked why he hadn't done it all he just kicked off, telling me how I'm always 'picking on him' and always looking to be nasty. It was a simple question, no raised voices, even smiling as I said it.
I just gave up and walked away.

I know that it is hard @jay6 but if my hubby only does part of a job i just try to say thank you for what he has done. I know that it is frustrating but it really does help reduce the 'kicking off'. I still don't always get it right, but from hard experience I have learned that he cannot change because of the dementia so I have to.

 

[jay6]

Nice to know I'm not going mad. Not sure mine appreciates anything I do yet or sees me as a comfort blanket, with the nastiness.
I don't think he does things while I'm out to calm himself down. Really doesn't seem at all stressed but then he is on calming tablets for his aggression.
Never does much but when he does he makes such a big issue of how I should appreciate it. As I said last night I heard him washing up. This morning I find 3/4 of it still unwashed. When I asked why he hadn't done it all he just kicked off, telling me how I'm always 'picking on him' and always looking to be nasty. It was a simple question, no raised voices, even smiling as I said it.
I just gave up and walked away.

I understand what you mean but he has always been the same. If he done something he liked doing, it would get finished but if it was for me or something he didn't want to do. It would never get finished or only ever half done so its not the dementia, Its just him.
He has always expected praise for what he does but has never shown much interest in what I've done. In fact he often critized me e.g. I was the one who always decorated, but he would always find a fault.

 

[JaxG]

Gasslighting - Tell me about it. I've had that for years. Nothing ever his fault etc. and yes people can make you feel it's you that's mad when they put on such a show. I think that's how a controlling person gradually takes over. You loose your self confidence.
Can't wait to see the pretence getting harder that will fascinate me too.
Sending love back to you. We need to stay strong.

This is so familiar to me too!! @sapphire turner it is interesting what you have said about the responses coming from the unconscious mind, from familiar responses. I do wonder how much is the person and how much is the disease, and who is it that made that analysis in the first place? How does anyone actually know? And could they control their reactions if they chose to - if they can make that choice around others?

 

[sapphire turner]

https://amzn.eu/d/aySFFIG
Travellers to Unimaginable Lands: Dementia, Carers and the Hidden Workings of the Mind by Dasha Kiper

This is the book I was talking about. Apparently people with dementia can override their unconscious responses with conscious ones but this takes a lot of effort and they can’t keep it up for long. Hence a bit of showboating for an audience is possible but eventually even that is lost.

 

[bakinghappy]

This is such an interesting thread because these are situations I face every day. The realisation that personal traits before were harsh and maybe gets worse speaks volumes to me. He's always lied quite a lot but before this it was tempered with humour and love. Now it's just one silly lie after another. Some not so silly unfortunately. The realisation that we're all suffering in our own way is so sad.

 

[sapphire turner]

My OH is very excited about the new drug coming out for Alzheimer’s that could halt the progression of disease and keep him as he is for many years ahead. I can’t quite describe the rollercoaster of emotions the thought of that brings up for me 🙈🙀🙈🙀😹
Luckily it’s not going to be available until at least 2025 maybe he might be less tiresome by then??

 

[Donk1]

I too am going crazy….trying tothink..is this moodiness because of dementia or was he like this before…was this moodiness with people the start of the dementia.

 

[Knitandpurl]

My OH is very excited about the new drug coming out for Alzheimer’s that could halt the progression of disease and keep him as he is for many years ahead. I can’t quite describe the rollercoaster of emotions the thought of that brings up for me 🙈🙀🙈🙀😹
Luckily it’s not going to be available until at least 2025 maybe he might be less tiresome by then??

I doubt any of these drugs will benefit our current PWDs. They will not be suitable for everyone and additionally are far more affective in the very early stages, though they have also tried this latest one on some ‘moderate impairment’ people. By the time they come on board all our poor people will be too far along their journey. But it’s really hopeful news for everyone who hasn’t already got it but is going to.

 

[sapphire turner]

Let’s hope they can speed up the diagnosis process! It look me 6 months to get a GP appointment but that was in lockdown I suppose. It doesn’t help when the PWD is in complete denial as well. At least I didn’t feel like there was a potential treatment clock ticking!

 

[Knitandpurl]

Yes, definitely need a much better diagnosis process, and much quicker. All this about Memory Clinics is just a joke. Don’t see why GP surgery cannot carry out the memory assessment test, blood tests, questions etc. and if a certain score achieved refer directly for a CT scan, which is apparently only way the amyloid proteins can be determined. But currently very few people get CT scan, my husband had an MRI scan and was diagnosed from that, but then referred to a memory clinic which took months. Think many people never have a scan at all, probably because we don’t actually have that many of them. Hopefully when we do and there is a potential treatment plan people will be more prepared to seek an earlier diagnosis.