Mum 90 Alzheimers refusing care. What do we do?

jojo12345

New member
Oct 14, 2023
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Hi,
I am hoping someone would have some experience and advice they would be happy to share.
My mother is 90, lives alone and has Alzheimers, diagnosed over a year ago, She is on several medications but thinks she only takes 1. We have tried via 3 care agencies to establish a care package but she is refusing to let care workers into the house, is often verbally aggressive and just recently was physically aggressive towards a care worker. She says she does not need anyone. She has been shouting at passers by to call the police when care workers call. She has had 3 falls recently, with one visit to emergency and another resulting in an inpatient stay. An emergency call system has been in her house for years, but she didn't think to use it and was found only by chance. She does not eat properly, never cooks and has lost lots of weight. She does not do her self care, is incontinent and has had home-hygiene issues (mice everywhere). She is unable to manage food, so things go out of date and obviously, her house is filthy. She won't allow a cleaner in.

When we try to suggest help, she threatens suicide or is sarcastic and moribund. Mental health is aware of this behaviour. She is frequently unpleasant to and about me and/or my sister. We are at our wits end. She has never been an easy person to get along with and our relationship was always strained. Neither my sister nor I can take over her care as her behaviour is not ok around children.
She said she wanted to stay at home as she aged, but she refuses entry to care workers who ultimately do not want to work with her or cannot meet her needs. We have been through 3 agencies now.

I am beginning to feel very unkindly towards her, mainly because of the stress and strain it is causing my sister, who shoulders a lot of the care and, frankly, the emotional cruelty, self-centredness, even narcissistic behaviour. Which predates Alzheimers by the way so we can't blame the disease entirely.

We have made referrals to safeguarding at social services to do an updated assessment, Alz. Soc. have already made a safeguarding referral and have said they will do another one. We are following up with clinical mental health with a re-referral. We will speak to the GP when we can get them on the phone, and ask for a safeguarding referral from them. And social services are so slow.
We have LPAs but are unwilling to use it to move her into residential. But the stress and strain this is putting on my sister particularly is concerning me. I want to support her and need to know how and what I can do to enforce a statutory process, like the doctor telling my mother she has to accept care.

I have read about DoLS. Would this apply in this case? Mum would have to pay for residential care which we and the care agencies think is the most appropriate living arrangement. But she would have to be removed by force. This would be a potentially extremely ugly if necessary step. This is all new territory to me so hearing your experiences will help.
 

SAP

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Feb 18, 2017
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Ok firstly yes I think if your mum no longer has mental capacity then a DoLS will be applied for by the care home when and I mean when she gets there as they will need to prevent her from leaving.
Social services need to get moving fast to assess her as she is becoming a danger to her self and others . This is strong language but to get them shifting, this is the kind of wording you need to use.
You can use your LPA for health and welfare to move her into a care home but you need to be clear about mental capacity, maybe the GP can help with this. Tell her she is going on holiday or the dr said she needs to go for a while, any little love lie that will get her through the door and into an environment of safety and care.
 

Rosettastone57

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Oct 27, 2016
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If your mother is self funding and you have LPA for health and finance you don't need anyone's permission to move your mother into full time care. Just arrange it for her. Even if the GP said she had to go into care, she sounds like she would still dismiss this suggestion. My mother in law was like this, and my husband knew she would refuse point blank to go into care. She refused to leave her home, not even to visit us or for any appointments. My husband was not prepared to dupe her into home, so we waited for a crisis. Eventually she became ill and went into hospital and we organised a care home for her. She went straight to the home from hospital and never returned to her own home. We never had any involvement with social services at all at any stage of her care.
 

SAP

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Feb 18, 2017
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@Rosettastone57 , your situation was slightly different i think. The OP’s mum has refused point bank to move and as long as she is deemed to have mental capacity not even an LPA for finance and H &W can make her move. So the need for social services or the GP is to assess mental capacity first maybe before there is a crisis. Although unfortunately ss do tend to wait for a crisis which is never in anyone’s best interests.
 

jojo12345

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Oct 14, 2023
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Thank you all. We are following up with SS and GP with strongly worded requests for a capacity assessment asap. I believe the GP has to act as she will no longer be taking her meds? Or is that just wishful thinking?
 

Rosettastone57

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Oct 27, 2016
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In law, you don't need a capacity assessment by a GP or social services for your mother. As attorney you are often best placed to make that decision ,which is what my husband did for his mother to get her into a home. He was confident that no one would challenge his decisions and there was no one who waa remotely interested in her wellbeing other than us. This all happened in 2018, so rules may have changed I'm sure others will be along soon to tell me this is all wrong and give better advice. But my mother in law had a history of not engaging with professionals and as self funding, social services weren't interested. She was unable to understand her situation, but because she refused to leave her house, as I have mentioned in my previous post, we waited for a crisis when she went into hospital.


My husband presented the hospital with the health LPA and was able to discuss her situation with staff, giving his reasons on her capacity to decide where to live. He questioned her with the doctor who agreed that a care home was the way forward. The care home who came out to assess my mother in law were satisfied about her lack of capacity to decide her living arrangements . The hospital social services weren't interested whatsoever. I think you will have to wait for a crisis as we did.
 

jojo12345

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Oct 14, 2023
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In law, you don't need a capacity assessment by a GP or social services for your mother. As attorney you are often best placed to make that decision ,which is what my husband did for his mother to get her into a home. He was confident that no one would challenge his decisions and there was no one who waa remotely interested in her wellbeing other than us. This all happened in 2018, so rules may have changed I'm sure others will be along soon to tell me this is all wrong and give better advice. But my mother in law had a history of not engaging with professionals and as self funding, social services weren't interested. She was unable to understand her situation, but because she refused to leave her house, as I have mentioned in my previous post, we waited for a crisis when she went into hospital.


My husband presented the hospital with the health LPA and was able to discuss her situation with staff, giving his reasons on her capacity to decide where to live. He questioned her with the doctor who agreed that a care home was the way forward. The care home who came out to assess my mother in law were satisfied about her lack of capacity to decide her living arrangements . The hospital social services weren't interested whatsoever. I think you will have to wait for a crisis as we did.
Thanks Rosetta. I have had the opportunity to speak to professionals today.
The law states that you do need a capacity assessment if the person says they do not wish to have care. In your case, the doctor supported your husband's position regarding her capacity and the care home made an assessment as well. LPA is not enough.
Our Mum does not want to be in a care home, she wants to stay at home but won't accept care at home. With a capacity assessment that relates to social care and medical, social services can implement a care package. If nothing happens, then we will no doubt face a crisis. Another one that is. We have found out that the legal responsibility sits with social care, and that if Mum is assessed as needing their input she should get it, even if she has to pay for it as self-funded. It's such a minefield!
 

jojo12345

New member
Oct 14, 2023
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@Rosettastone57 , your situation was slightly different i think. The OP’s mum has refused point bank to move and as long as she is deemed to have mental capacity not even an LPA for finance and H &W can make her move. So the need for social services or the GP is to assess mental capacity first maybe before there is a crisis. Although unfortunately ss do tend to wait for a crisis which is never in anyone’s best interests.
The GP refused. Would you believe.
 

SAP

Registered User
Feb 18, 2017
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Yes sadly I do believe it. Mental capacity is more about legal positions that the persons well being or best interests. Like @Rosettastone57 situation, my mum was in hospital and I basically refused to allow her home by telling them the list of issues and that there was absolutely no care available to her. The OT and hospital social worker assessed her capacity to make decisions about her care and the rest is history. Anyone can assess capacity be it family, doctors, social workers or a carehomes but to maintain someone in residential care against their will a home will want a professions stamp on it as it is illegal to hold someone in a locked residential home ( to prevent them walking out) with out a DoLS in place. A hospital admission is a good place to start this process, especially if you are forceful with them about their responsibilities.
 

Rosettastone57

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Oct 27, 2016
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Thanks Rosetta. I have had the opportunity to speak to professionals today.
The law states that you do need a capacity assessment if the person says they do not wish to have care. In your case, the doctor supported your husband's position regarding her capacity and the care home made an assessment as well. LPA is not enough.
Our Mum does not want to be in a care home, she wants to stay at home but won't accept care at home. With a capacity assessment that relates to social care and medical, social services can implement a care package. If nothing happens, then we will no doubt face a crisis. Another one that is. We have found out that the legal responsibility sits with social care, and that if Mum is assessed as needing their input she should get it, even if she has to pay for it as self-funded. It's such a minefield!
I know some forum members have used the services of an independent social worker for a capacity assessment, if the local authority aren't helping. I have no personal experience of this, but obviously there's a cost. Perhaps others can advise appropriately
 

Rosettastone57

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Oct 27, 2016
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Thanks Rosetta. I have had the opportunity to speak to professionals today.
The law states that you do need a capacity assessment if the person says they do not wish to have care. In your case, the doctor supported your husband's position regarding her capacity and the care home made an assessment as well. LPA is not enough.
Our Mum does not want to be in a care home, she wants to stay at home but won't accept care at home. With a capacity assessment that relates to social care and medical, social services can implement a care package. If nothing happens, then we will no doubt face a crisis. Another one that is. We have found out that the legal responsibility sits with social care, and that if Mum is assessed as needing their input she should get it, even if she has to pay for it as self-funded. It's such a minefield!

Thanks Rosetta. I have had the opportunity to speak to professionals today.
The law states that you do need a capacity assessment if the person says they do not wish to have care. In your case, the doctor supported your husband's position regarding her capacity and the care home made an assessment as well. LPA is not enough.
Our Mum does not want to be in a care home, she wants to stay at home but won't accept care at home. With a capacity assessment that relates to social care and medical, social services can implement a care package. If nothing happens, then we will no doubt face a crisis. Another one that is. We have found out that the legal responsibility sits with social care, and that if Mum is assessed as needing their input she should get it, even if she has to pay for it as self-funded. It's such a minefield!
Sorry, I've reread this, are you saying you are supporting your mum being cared at home rather than full time residential? Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick , but my experience is that social services aren't interested in self funders and would expect you to sort care yourself. Sorry, if I've misled you.
 

jojo12345

New member
Oct 14, 2023
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Yes sadly I do believe it. Mental capacity is more about legal positions that the persons well being or best interests. Like @Rosettastone57 situation, my mum was in hospital and I basically refused to allow her home by telling them the list of issues and that there was absolutely no care available to her. The OT and hospital social worker assessed her capacity to make decisions about her care and the rest is history. Anyone can assess capacity be it family, doctors, social workers or a carehomes but to maintain someone in residential care against their will a home will want a professions stamp on it as it is illegal to hold someone in a locked residential home ( to prevent them walking out) with out a DoLS in place. A hospital admission is a good place to start this process, especially if you are forceful with them about their responsibilities.
So far we have been having open conversations with social services and they seem to be taking it seriously. They are aware any support would be self-funded. We will have to see how things develop and I will report back!
 

jojo12345

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Oct 14, 2023
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OK so update... After 7 months of failed care packages, I don't know how many carers and continuing issues, Mum continues to struggle. Social services attitude is that we are somehow not addressing risk by not immediately changing the lock on the door so they can get in, as if that's the presiding issue. I cannot hold a reasonable conversation with my mother. She turns everything around and invariably ends a conversation by threatening suicide or insulting me, then hanging up the phone. Mental health won't help. Social services would rather she went into a home regardless of her wishes. I cannot live with her or have her live with me due to her toxicity (unrelated to Alzheimer's) as well as dementia behaviour - I have young children, and value my own mental health as well as that of my children. The unspoken expectation of a snotty care manager is that somehow we should sort her out and tell her to accept care and be done with it.
Is it just me or do the professionals really not understand dementia or challenging behaviour??

Mum can afford to pay for her own care but at what point should we throw in the towel and either put in live in care or get a DoLS to have her moved to a permanent care facility? Do we wait until she becomes ill as she doesn't eat enough, she forgets to eat and drink all the time. How do we know when is the best time to do this?? What do you experienced carers advise??
 

Jools1402

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Jan 13, 2024
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My Mum was hospitalized because she wasn't eating properly or drinking enough and became ill. She went directly from hospital to a D2A bed in a care home for 6 weeks to see if she could improve - funded by NHS. It was obvious that she couldn't return home to live alone even though it was in an assisted living flat. However, at this point she did not have an official dementia diagnosis and we did not have POA for health and welfare. The way we got round this was by asking social services to carry out a mental capacity assessment. They deemed that Mum did not have capacity to make a rational decision about her welfare. As Mum was self funding it was up to us to choose a care home for her. Once there the home applied for DoLS.
So @jojo12345 to my mind you have a couple of options. You can either leave things be until a crisis happens. Or, if you are able to, then you need to go against what your Mum wants ( stand up to her - for her own good and done as a loving daughter) and get social services (or GP or mental health team) to carry out a mental capacity assessment. Tell them that this is urgent and a safeguarding issue. But whatever happens, with the history of failed care packages at home, it sounds very much as if a residential home for your Mum is going to be best. Good luck.
 

LouiseW

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Oct 18, 2021
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Hi
Ahh the twilight zone I know it well but for my family at least its all in the past as Dad has been living in a care home now for nealy 2 years.

You have my sympathy and rspect and I'm so sorry that you are all going through this awful situation where no one helps and its far from clear what you can and cannot do.

I ended the limbo in our story by resgining as carer for Dad and writing to tell Dads GP and Social Services (they had not deemed to do any assessment despite being referred by the GP on a number of occasions).

The GP then engaged the Community Mental Health Team

The Community Mental Health Team concluded that Dad was not safe to live at home on his own.

This was enough to allow me to arrange a 3 week "holiday" for him at a care home, withing a week the home had applied for a DOLS order (still not attended to by Social Services 2 YEARS LATER !!!!!! they really don't care about my Dad).

He became a permanent resident after the three weeks were up and after a few months begun to make friends and thrive.

The ONLY institution that helped us as a family and skillfully managed the transition were the care home.

If I were you I would go and look at some homes and discuss the issue of how to get her there and what would happen next. I think the skill lies with the care home team who should be able to navigate the murky waters of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 and get you and your family out of this awful situation.

Assuming that the luxury of a capacity assessment from a professional is not possible due to buck passing and ignorance by NHS/Social Services I would just say to the care home that she is not safe living at home on her own and as attourney you believe that residential care is in her best interests.

Have the same conversation with a number of homes and hopefully this will be enough for them to work with.

Good luck, this will end but it does not feel like it at the time.
 

canary

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Feb 25, 2014
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South coast
The time to consider a care home or a live in carer is when her needs cannot be met any other way, or when the carer cannot cope.
It sounds to me as though she has definitely reached this stage - and IMO, if care packages have failed, then live-in care is not going to work
Social services would rather she went into a home regardless of her wishes.
Very, very few people with dementia will agree to moving into a care home. The fact that SS think she should go against her wishes says to me that they think that your mum has lost capacity and is now at risk of harm. There comes a time when you have to go with what the person with dementia needs, rather than what they want
 

Rosettastone57

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Oct 27, 2016
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As I posted previously on this thread, the services of an independent social worker may assist you if the local authority won't help. As @LouiseW has said, as her attorney, approach care homes saying residential care is in your mother's best interests and see if they will work with this. There comes a point where the person with dementia's needs become so great that they outweigh what they or family members want to happen. As a self funder, just start arranging it all
 
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Sirena

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Feb 27, 2018
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It sounds like the time absolutely has come for her to move to a care home.

It isn't that the care home managers do not understand - they understand all too well! But they cannot do anything until you bite the bullet, get them to visit and assess your mother, and then get her moved in.

(You do not get a DoLs to get her into a care home. The DoLs happens once she is in there - it is to prevent her leaving.)

Do not discuss it with your mother, she will never agree to it so there is no point. In my mother's case, I made all the arrangements, packed an overnight bag for her and we drove there, I told her she was going on a mini break. Just say whatever you need to say to get her in there - it's a hospital, a hotel, a rehab unit, whatever would work best. Once she is in there the care home staff will take over.

My mother was self funding and Social Services played no part in this - I did contact them and they visited her at home, they heard she was self funding and I didn't see them for dust.