how to change executor dementia

[PaulOils]

Howey all,
If my bother is executor to my mother who has dementia, and is in charge of her money and banking now, from 3 years oge or there about. How/if could we change this to me, the third brother? As mother is fine, in a way, but can not remember things, and not in her right mind to make money actions. Can we, or could the bother concede this to me in the solicitor's?
Paul.

 

[Jessbow]

Nope, not unless you are named as reserved power of attorney. Do you mean POA?
He can relinquish the POA, youll have to apply for deputyship

Executor doesnt come into play until her will becomes 'live'- after she has passed away, then a solicitor can take over

 

[canary]

Granting POA and who is the attorney is your mothers decision and hers alone. No-one else can change the POA, or turn it over to someone else. If your mother no longer has capacity to revoke that POA and make a new one, then it cannot be changed.

If your brother no longer wishes to be attorney any more he can revoke being attorney, but unless there is someone else names in the POA, then the POA would become null and void and your mother wouldnt be able to make a new one naming someone else as attorney if she has lost capacity. If the POA becomes null and void then someone else would have to apply for deputyship with the Court of Protection.

 

[PaulOils]

Howey all,
Thank you for the help.
I was not there at the solicitor's when all this took place, but I should have been, if I was, I would have said I should go executer to, to my mother and father, and they would off agreed, as my father agrees now that I should be an executor. What if I and my father say to the solicitor or courts, confidence game?
Paul.

 

[Banjomansmate]

An Executor carries out a person’s wishes as stated in their Will after they have died. They have no interest in what happens before the person dies.

Somebody appointed as Lasting Power of Attorney is required to look after someone’s finances while they are alive. The donor can still have full mental capacity or they may have lost the ability to run their own affairs. The attorney has to run things in the best interests of the donor.

The Attorney and Executor can be the same person if that is what the donor has decided and arranged.

The Banjoman wanted me to be both his Executor and his Attorney. I refused to do both jobs as I was not a relative so he made a family member his Executrix and I held LPA for him while he was alive. The Executrix and I kept in touch so that she knew what I was doing with his finances, making things easier for her after he died.

IF your mother has given your brother Power of Attorney and made him Executor of her Will only she can change either decision. If she no longer has capacity then neither can be changed.
If your Father wishes to make you an Executor of HIS Will then he is legally able to do that.

 

[Scarlet Lady]

Hello, @PaulOils . The situation is reasonably simple. If for any reason either or both of your parents wish to change the appointed executors of their wills, they are entitled to do so legally, providing they are of sound mind . If that Is no longer the case, then you accept the situation or enter into a legal minefield.

 

[PaulOils]

Howey all,
But could I state to the solicitor, that I should have been there? Could not I state my mother did not fully understand at the time, thus my brother should have asked me, and my other brother there? Is it not deception by the other brother? So my father, cant use any of this money? When actually over half is his, as he transferred this over around 20 years ago?

To be honest, should not it be law in the case of a mother that has dementia, that all children be there, or "have" to be notified? As if it was fact that the mother would give the 3 sons power, and only th one son went, surely thats deception?
Paul

 

[try again]

Any joint accounts they have should have been split so that your father has at least 50% for his own use and your mums share to go towards her care .
As stated, if your mother no longer has capacity then she cannot change anything
The only option is for your brother to rescind his responsibility or for you to have evidence he is abusing this
Either way, the result would be that you would have to apply via the court of protection route or the authorities would assume control.
Solicitors have no powers to change anything as this could lead to all sorts of abuse

Each of us has the right to say who we want to help manage things when necessary. That right cannot be taken away

 

[PaulOils]

Howey all,
I know my brothers not going to spend it, and that would be foolish and easily traced, that's not the worry. The worry is, my father put money in my mothers account, and would now like his half, well it far more than half, as he did not realise at the time the executor would have control of my mother money, which does not sound right, my father should have control of my mothers money, all this was not explained right, I should have been there, too explain, well I should have been joint executor.
So could as you might be saying, my bother rescinds his executor too me, or states I also should be executor?
So my father has no control on my mother money, or his own he has worked very hard all his life for? Could my brother transfer the money into my fathers account?
Thank you all.
Paul

 

[try again]

If the money is in an account in your mother's name only then it is stuck there regardless of who manages the account.
Your brother cannot give you control anyway.

 

[PaulOils]

Howey all,
But my brother and father does have her card, and card each, with agents on, so what they deem fit to spend it on, like food, her clothes, and say building jobs, they pay from her card? So its not suck there. But brother has online. So, the brother could transfer my fathers money, over to his account?
Paul.

 

[Banjomansmate]

An Executor only has authority to deal with another person’s money after that person has died.

Has your brother become your mother’s Attorney, that is to say has your mother awarded your brother Lasting Power of Attorney? This is done through the Court of Protection. If this was drawn up by a solicitor then the solicitor should have ensured that your mother understood what she was doing, as indeed she should have done when making her Will.

If your father and brother have been dealing with your mother’s finances without LPA then they have done so illegally. In which case someone should apply to become her Deputy.
If brother and/or father have LPA then they can split any joint accounts into half and Mum and Dad can have separate accounts. If Dad put all his money into an account in Mum’s sole name then that is a different matter.

 

[Bod]

@PaulOils
Firstly Where in the world are you?
Different countries have different rules regarding this subject, even the Scottish system is different to the English one.
We have members in a lot of different countries, so getting correct and specific information is often not difficult.
Secondly, there is in Engilsh/UK law a great deal of difference between Executor, who works only after death, and Power of Attorney, who works for the living person.
To get correct advice we need to know exactly what the solicitor set up.

Bod.

 

[PaulOils]

Howey all,
England. Brother Power of Attorney, after both parents die, solicitor sort's money out. Its done all legal, father has a card to use mother money for food, building work, her clothes, with "Rep" on the end of it, brother has one, but also has online. Thus if all agrees, could the brother transfer half or more to fathers account? Thing is, I was not explained all this was happening, I just thought they were going to see about my mother and her dimenta with a solicitor.
Paul.

 

[nitram]

Howey all,
England. Brother Power of Attorney, after both parents die, solicitor sort's money out. Its done all legal, father has a card to use mother money for food, building work, her clothes, with "Rep" on the end of it, brother has one, but also has online. Thus if all agrees, could the brother transfer half or more to fathers account? Thing is, I was not explained all this was happening, I just thought they were going to see about my mother and her dimenta with a solicitor.
Paul.

My understanding is that brother and father have joint and several LPA for mother,
Neither of them can legally transfer funds to an account not in mother's name so brother should not transfer funds to father.

When your mother appointed brother and father as LPA she did not have to inform anybody, you included.
An LPA cannot deputise another person to act nor can mother change LPA if she has lost capacity.

 

[canary]

Hi @PaulOils

I confess that Im very confused. Ive never come across a bank card that had rep on the end. When I was deputy for mum I had a card for her that had deputy on the end and I know that if you are POA it says POA on the end, but Ive never come across one that says rep.

That, plus the way that you are using terms that dont make total sense for situations here in UK, and the time that you tend to post (afternoons and during the night, UK time) make me too think that you were not in UK, so saying that you lived in England surprised me

 

[Jessbow]

So could as you might be saying, my bother rescinds his executor too me, or states I also should be executor?

No, You cannot just be slotted in now, not in any way.
The only way you can have any interest or legal input is if they both resign and you apply to the court of protection.

What country are you in? , the you keep insisting they are her excutors- they arent. They are her Power of atourney appointees. her representatives.

 

[Scarlet Lady]

(@canary - as an aside, some banks do supply debit cards with the POAs name, followed by Rep, for representative. I had one like that for my aunt).

My impression here is that @PaulOils is confused over the whole process surrounding Powers of Attorney and how Executorship of a will works. Nitram and others have explained the situation well, as far as we understand it. A person or persons may well be appointed attorneys for someone when they are alive as well as being named executors in their will but you cannot act as executor of someone’s estate until they have died.
@PaulOils mother appointed her husband and one of her sons to be her attorneys. Her solicitor should have been confident she had capacity to make that decision At the time. In drawing up the document, there is no legal requirement for anyone to be present other than those who are party to the agreement. @PaulOils is aggrieved because he feels that other members of the family should have been included but the law does not require this. An attorney is selected in accordance with the donor‘s wishes and there is nothing here to suggest the process hasn’t been carried out correctly, no matter how unfair @PaulOils thinks it is. In practical terms, it’s usually better to stick to one or two attorneys as complications can arise where several people are in the mix.
Perhaps if @PaulOils is still unhappy with the situation, it may be a good idea to book an appointment with Citizens Advice or a local solicitor who will be able to give more detailed advice?

 

[canary]

(@canary - as an aside, some banks do supply debit cards with the POAs name, followed by Rep, for representative. I had one like that for my aunt).

Thank you for this info - Ive never come across it before
xx

 

[PaulOils]

Nitram first,
So my fathers money, which he has worked hard for all his life, is stuck in my mothers account? But if he has a card with rep on, he can get money out of the hole in the wall? And surely go to the bank and transfer his own money from my mothers account to his? As my father basically paid for everything for my mother. What if the brother has deceived the solicitor, and not told about three of my mothers accounts? Not that in and way he would touch them.But still, they should have been told to the solicitor, and about my fathers money in my mothers accounts, as if I had known, I would have told him to take out.
I live in England, mother and father Wales.

All, not looked into this before, ad you were right, but now understand the difference between POA and executor.
Paul.