House clearance - at what point do you accept they're not going back?

[Maria83]

Hello,

My mum has been in a care home for 3 months now. It was meant to be temporary after she had falls which put her in hospital, but it looks like it's going to be permanent (I haven't told her this as she gets upset at the thought of not going home).

She is self-funding and she really doesn't want to sell her house, as wants it to pass to me and my kids. I think if we rent it out she will have enough monthly income to cover care costs. I'm not bothered about inheritance, so I would sell it if needs be, but I want to keep to her wishes as much as possible (as she hasn't been able to physically look after my kids, this is how she wants to help).

She has enough savings to last about 3 more months, but then we will need the extra income. However, I'm finding it really hard to accept that this is it, and to start clearing the house to get it ready to rent. It feels like a really big step.

I'm also not sure how to go about it. I have 3 young kids so no time to go through all her stuff and clear it myself, so I was thinking of using a house clearance company. Does anyone have experience of these?

I'm also not sure whether to tell my mum that we're doing it? The care home she's in is just around the corner, and she has asked friends to take her back to her house before, and I wouldn't want her to go there and then realise (even though she would forget).

Any advice appreciated! Thank you 😊

 

[McSuffolk]

Hi @Maria83
I am in a very similar position to you as mums house is going on the market this week. It’s such a weird thing to have to sort a lifetime worth of stuff when yr parent is still alive but my sister and I spent a day at the house, identified the key items to be kept and agreed a plan for all else.
I haven’t used a house clearance as much of mums stuff was old so we have made good use of our local recycling Centre, breaking up furniture into car size bits and making regular trips over there to offload. I don’t have small children though so realize this may not be practical for you.
Other items we are advertising on fb market place or on gumtree. I have been quite ruthless and while it’s kept any costs to a minimum it has taken me/us quite a long time to do it gradually. Nearly there!
However I never raise the subject of the house nor would I take mum back there. Her memory is quite impaired so I’m hoping she has forgotten …

 

[Sarasa]

Hi @Maria83 , my mum’s flat was already on the market and sold subject to contract when she went into care so I didn’t have a decision to make as to whether to rent or sell. Others that have rented a property out will hopefully be along shortly with the pros and cons of that. My only query is whether renting would cover your mums fees long term. My mums fees are over £1,000 a week and there are very few if any properties round here that rent out for that, specially if you add in agent’s fees etc.
As for clearing it out. I have boxes in my lift of stuff I couldn’t bear to part with, some ornaments and clothes went to mum’s room in the care home and the rest I used local charity shops, local free in the area websites and the Red Cross and the local hospice that collected big items. Mums flat was small and she wasn’t a hoarder, but even so it took time. I’d start now.

 

[Maria83]

Hi @Maria83
I am in a very similar position to you as mums house is going on the market this week. It’s such a weird thing to have to sort a lifetime worth of stuff when yr parent is still alive but my sister and I spent a day at the house, identified the key items to be kept and agreed a plan for all else.
I haven’t used a house clearance as much of mums stuff was old so we have made good use of our local recycling Centre, breaking up furniture into car size bits and making regular trips over there to offload. I don’t have small children though so realize this may not be practical for you.
Other items we are advertising on fb market place or on gumtree. I have been quite ruthless and while it’s kept any costs to a minimum it has taken me/us quite a long time to do it gradually. Nearly there!
However I never raise the subject of the house nor would I take mum back there. Her memory is quite impaired so I’m hoping she has forgotten …

Thank you so much for your reply. Yes it's very strange isn't it clearing it out when they are alive. I have asked the friends not to take her there (but she can be very persuasive unfortunately!). Thanks for the tips on how you sorted stuff. I may be able to do the same when littlest is at nursery. All the best

 

[Maria83]

Hi @Maria83 , my mum’s flat was already on the market and sold subject to contract when she went into care so I didn’t have a decision to make as to whether to rent or sell. Others that have rented a property out will hopefully be along shortly with the pros and cons of that. My only query is whether renting would cover your mums fees long term. My mums fees are over £1,000 a week and there are very few if any properties round here that rent out for that, specially if you add in agent’s fees etc.
As for clearing it out. I have boxes in my lift of stuff I couldn’t bear to part with, some ornaments and clothes went to mum’s room in the care home and the rest I used local charity shops, local free in the area websites and the Red Cross and the local hospice that collected big items. Mums flat was small and she wasn’t a hoarder, but even so it took time. I’d start now.

Thanks so much for your reply. My mum's fees are £650 per week (relatively cheap, but I still can't believe how much care homes cost!). We could rent her house for around £1000 per month, and along with her pension (luckily she has a good NHS pension) as well as attendance allowance, it should be enough. My friends think I should just sell the house so I don't have to worry about it, but it's everything she worked for and I know she really really wants to pass it on, so I want to try renting first. But if it is too much work then I will sell it.

Luckily she isn't a hoarder so there isn't a huge amount of stuff, but I imagine it will still take a while. The British heart foundation do a clearance service (you have to pay but anything they sell in their shops you are refunded) so will enquire about that. Feels like such a big step but I know realistically it needs to be done!

 

[Jessie5]

We were in the same position a couple of years ago. It was utterly heartbreaking. Particularly on top of the grief we felt at Mum going in to a home. But financial need meant we had no choice. We had to get quite unsentimental about it.

I wasn’t working at the time and kids were at school so me and my sister blitzed it over a couple of weeks. So no advice on house clearance.

Renting has gone well, but we are about to sell it as the income doesn’t cover all fees and we will run out of top up savings next year. So we will sell and I think with interest rates being high we will make nearly what we received in rental income if we put it in a high interest account.

Just a couple of things to consider with rental. If the house needs a major repair where will the money come from? You need to keep a buffer to cover this. Also to pay for things like a gas safety certificate every year and an electrical safety certificate I think every 5 (I think). It is also worth having landlord insurance.

Also can you afford the house to be empty for a couple of months between tenants.?

Rental income is taxable, so if your Mum has pensions other income she might need to pay income tax on it. We do a self assessment tax form every year.

Also consider care feels go up, so will the rent cover them if you get an increase in the coming years? My Mum’s went up 7% last year and 8% this year. Obviously you can put the rent up every so often, but you want to be fair to your tenants.

The government are bringing an end to ‘no fault’ eviction. So in future if you want to evict a tenant you will have to give good reason. It would be worth looking as whether selling the house is good enough reason. I think it might be, but worth doing some research.

Sorry, that’s a bit of a list, but things I wish we’d thought about more!

Good luck it all feels a lot to be thinking about at what is a really horrible and upsetting time for you all.

 

[Maria83]

We were in the same position a couple of years ago. It was utterly heartbreaking. Particularly on top of the grief we felt at Mum going in to a home. But financial need meant we had no choice. We had to get quite unsentimental about it.

I wasn’t working at the time and kids were at school so me and my sister blitzed it over a couple of weeks. So no advice on house clearance.

Renting has gone well, but we are about to sell it as the income doesn’t cover all fees and we will run out of top up savings next year. So we will sell and I think with interest rates being high we will make nearly what we received in rental income if we put it in a high interest account.

Just a couple of things to consider with rental. If the house needs a major repair where will the money come from? You need to keep a buffer to cover this. Also to pay for things like a gas safety certificate every year and an electrical safety certificate I think every 5 (I think). It is also worth having landlord insurance.

Also can you afford the house to be empty for a couple of months between tenants.?

Rental income is taxable, so if your Mum has pensions other income she might need to pay income tax on it. We do a self assessment tax form every year.

Also consider care feels go up, so will the rent cover them if you get an increase in the coming years? My Mum’s went up 7% last year and 8% this year. Obviously you can put the rent up every so often, but you want to be fair to your tenants.

The government are bringing an end to ‘no fault’ eviction. So in future if you want to evict a tenant you will have to give good reason. It would be worth looking as whether selling the house is good enough reason. I think it might be, but worth doing some research.

Sorry, that’s a bit of a list, but things I wish we’d thought about more!

Good luck it all feels a lot to be thinking about at what is a really horrible and upsetting time for you all.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience - some really useful considerations here! Luckily my mum was pretty savvy with money and she bought a buy to let property a few years ago which is now empty, so we are trying to sell it (although with the market at the moment it isn't selling) to access the equity and pay for her fees while we figure out her house. It's all so complicated!

 

[Maria83]

We were in the same position a couple of years ago. It was utterly heartbreaking. Particularly on top of the grief we felt at Mum going in to a home. But financial need meant we had no choice. We had to get quite unsentimental about it.

I wasn’t working at the time and kids were at school so me and my sister blitzed it over a couple of weeks. So no advice on house clearance.

Renting has gone well, but we are about to sell it as the income doesn’t cover all fees and we will run out of top up savings next year. So we will sell and I think with interest rates being high we will make nearly what we received in rental income if we put it in a high interest account.

Just a couple of things to consider with rental. If the house needs a major repair where will the money come from? You need to keep a buffer to cover this. Also to pay for things like a gas safety certificate every year and an electrical safety certificate I think every 5 (I think). It is also worth having landlord insurance.

Also can you afford the house to be empty for a couple of months between tenants.?

Rental income is taxable, so if your Mum has pensions other income she might need to pay income tax on it. We do a self assessment tax form every year.

Also consider care feels go up, so will the rent cover them if you get an increase in the coming years? My Mum’s went up 7% last year and 8% this year. Obviously you can put the rent up every so often, but you want to be fair to your tenants.

The government are bringing an end to ‘no fault’ eviction. So in future if you want to evict a tenant you will have to give good reason. It would be worth looking as whether selling the house is good enough reason. I think it might be, but worth doing some research.

Sorry, that’s a bit of a list, but things I wish we’d thought about more!

Good luck it all feels a lot to be thinking about at what is a really horrible and upsetting time for you all.

Also do you mind me asking about selling and investing the money. How much income will you be able to generate per month? My mum's house is mortgage free and worth about £350-£400K, so perhaps we could do the same to generate income?

 

[Jessie5]

Also do you mind me asking about selling and investing the money. How much income will you be able to generate per month? My mum's house is mortgage free and worth about £350-£400K, so perhaps we could do the same to generate income?

Hey - I think we’ll keep it simple and put it in fixed term cash savings account. When I looked a couple of weeks ago there was 6% to be had for a year fixed rate. So on £300k that would be £18,000 a year, which is more than we were making on rental income. (Obs she will be taxed on this and interest rates might not stay high forever). But property over long term tends to appreciate. When we rented Mum’s house there were no high interest rates on cash to be had. Lots to think about!

 

[Frank68]

This is a difficult question to answer, for it is both emotional (very!) and financial.... I really do feel for you as I know from my experience with my wife (now deceased) that there are so many angles to consider and they come at a moment when you are so full of pain...
Clearance: I would recommend you invite relatives around on a weekend and invite them to take any mementoes they wish - also ensure to search for hidden cash in / under drawers etc - the older generation were often brought up to squirrel some away against a rainy day. Also consider local charity shops for clothing and smaller household items - the relatives might help with packing stuff up at the end of the help-yourself day?. House clearance is then the easiest, quickest and least painful way forward - unless there are antiques etc obviously.
Financial: I recommend taking some financial advice - solicitors* can often recommend or maybe have one attached to their practice.; maybe friends can recommend? A relatively small fee could save you a lot of money and hassle in the long run! A lot will depend on rental value of the property and pension income v the carehome fees.

* A solicitor can also advise on the legal options.

 

[Maria83]

Hey - I think we’ll keep it simple and put it in fixed term cash savings account. When I looked a couple of weeks ago there was 6% to be had for a year fixed rate. So on £300k that would be £18,000 a year, which is more than we were making on rental income. (Obs she will be taxed on this and interest rates might not stay high forever). But property over long term tends to appreciate. When we rented Mum’s house there were no high interest rates on cash to be had. Lots to think about!

Thank you that's super helpful!

 

[Maria83]

This is a difficult question to answer, for it is both emotional (very!) and financial.... I really do feel for you as I know from my experience with my wife (now deceased) that there are so many angles to consider and they come at a moment when you are so full of pain...
Clearance: I would recommend you invite relatives around on a weekend and invite them to take any mementoes they wish - also ensure to search for hidden cash in / under drawers etc - the older generation were often brought up to squirrel some away against a rainy day. Also consider local charity shops for clothing and smaller household items - the relatives might help with packing stuff up at the end of the help-yourself day?. House clearance is then the easiest, quickest and least painful way forward - unless there are antiques etc obviously.
Financial: I recommend taking some financial advice - solicitors* can often recommend or maybe have one attached to their practice.; maybe friends can recommend? A relatively small fee could save you a lot of money and hassle in the long run! A lot will depend on rental value of the property and pension income v the carehome fees.

* A solicitor can also advise on the legal options.

Thank you @frank68for your reply, very helpful . Im so sorry for your expeirence and the loss of your wife. Unfortunately there aren't many family members around. My brother lives in Australia and if I'm honest has been pretty useless through all of this! And she isn't close to her siblings (although I do have an aunt who will probably help). But I think for ease I will simply put aside any sentimental items and go for a house clearance. As you say, it is something that I know I need to do, but has so much emotion attached to it.

And your absolutely right I should speak to a professional about financial options. For some bizarre reason I thought it would be a bit simpler than this!

 

[nitram]

Thank you that's super helpful!

You can see what's available on https://savingschampion.co.uk/best-buys .

Don't forget the £85k FSCS limit does not apply to N&SI where the limit is £1million

 

[mikesue]

18 months ago, when tragically and finally the time came to place my dear wife into full time care. After a lot of research into the financial help that might be available; I decided that the best thing to do would be to sell our home. This would guarantee that I would be able to cover her care home costs for as long as she remains breathing. This was my number one priority. We have lived happily in France for the last 30 years; but since the illness had caused her to completely lose her French, I considered returning to the UK. I researched the homes that would be available to her; but after much research into the quality of care and the costs involved; (the care was not good and the costs were around twice those here in France).
She is now in an absolutely marvellous establishment specifically for the care of Alzheimers patients; the nurses and carers are superb; and I realise that the language is not a problem whatsoever.

 

[Dig Deep]

We moved my mother into a care home a couple of months ago. she is a self funder as she owned her own home. Fees are £1400 per week but it is the best facility we could find. we sold her small house to a young couple who had previously been renting. As they had basically nothing by way of furniture or white goods etc, we said they could have anything in the house they wanted at no cost, after we cleared all personal and sentimental items. his was a win:win for all parties.
All house proceeds will now be used to pay care home fees so we have simply opened 1 year and 2 year fixed term savings accounts. All accounts with the same bank so nice and simple.
Very strange feelings having to do this after 50 years in the family home.
However, my mother is the important person and she is settling in well and enjoying the stimulating activities' her care home provides.
A shame we couldn't pass on house sale proceeds to the grandchildren etc as my parents would have wanted but that's life.

 

[D&RB]

On a slightly different note, my wife is currently in a care home for respite care and this will now last for a further 2 weeks. Friends and family are all urging that I make this arrangement permanent due to her incontinence and the difficulty of getting her to co-operate with carers and her refusal to change her clothes. Although we can self fund for some time I understand that if I continue to live in our house this will not be subject to any charges by social service if they have to step in to top up the funding when her savings drop below £23,000.
Is this correct?

 

[canary]

Is this correct?

Yes it is.
If a spouse is living in a property that is owned/partially owned by the person in residential care, then that property is disregarded from the financial assessment all the while the spouse is living in it.

 

[JenniferK]

Huge sympathy comes to you in this oh so familiar predicament.
obviously the numbers involved vary from case to case but when we sold my mums house in the summer as POA s we invested whole sum in a fixed high interest account and the interest yields money that covers the major part of her fees. Fortunately she has pensions and savings too which help enormously.
as your mum has had to go into a care home it is likely, sadly, that deterioration is underway and after about 8 months of awkward questioning and demands to go home my mums memory loss now means that she has little memory of her home. It’s painful but makes it easier.
good luck

 

[Clarity]

Hello Maria
I've been through all these stages; of initially moving my parents from their home of 50 years to live close to me and my family. Then occasional carers and finally full-time care.
I really feel for you as I too navigated all this with two young children and no siblings of my own or local family to ask for help. It's tough!
Thoughts from my own experience would be to take care of yourself (and your 3 kids) as much as you feel able and make that a priority. I was so overwhelmed by my parent's frequent urgent needs around the clock (falls, paramedics at 2am, Mum starting to wander outside, etc) that I often prioritised them over my young family. And that is such precious time to miss!
I wouldn't talk about selling the house either. Although I didn't feel comfortable not being entirely truthful with my Mum, who had mixed dementia, it was kinder not to give her more things to be anxious or sad about. Keeping some familiar mementos from their home, favourite chair/pictures etc which they can have in the care home will hopefully ease the transition.
And definitely try not to feel guilty if she is upset and takes time to settle in a new home. You are doing the best you can and have her best interests at heart!
Sometimes I found it really useful to manage situations with my parents in a similar way as I was doing with my young kids. So, taking things step by step and not expecting things to be learnt or accepted straight away! Explaining decisions or actions simply without being patronising. Taking deep breaths to help me be patient when frustration hit, which was, to be honest, a lot of the time! Setting clear boundaries when you can. It's hard to walk away sometimes but you have a life and other responsibilities as well as making time for fun and laughter with your kids. They are definitely the best 'medicine'.
Wishing you all the best, the grace and strength to keep going, and friends who will help when you reach out to ask.

 

[Mydarlingdaughter]

Hello,

My mum has been in a care home for 3 months now. It was meant to be temporary after she had falls which put her in hospital, but it looks like it's going to be permanent (I haven't told her this as she gets upset at the thought of not going home).

She is self-funding and she really doesn't want to sell her house, as wants it to pass to me and my kids. I think if we rent it out she will have enough monthly income to cover care costs. I'm not bothered about inheritance, so I would sell it if needs be, but I want to keep to her wishes as much as possible (as she hasn't been able to physically look after my kids, this is how she wants to help).

She has enough savings to last about 3 more months, but then we will need the extra income. However, I'm finding it really hard to accept that this is it, and to start clearing the house to get it ready to rent. It feels like a really big step.

I'm also not sure how to go about it. I have 3 young kids so no time to go through all her stuff and clear it myself, so I was thinking of using a house clearance company. Does anyone have experience of these?

I'm also not sure whether to tell my mum that we're doing it? The care home she's in is just around the corner, and she has asked friends to take her back to her house before, and I wouldn't want her to go there and then realise (even though she would forget).

Any advice appreciated! Thank you 😊

It’s a very difficult situation.
Did you manage to speak to anyone on the ADS helpline about the financial aspects? You say your Mum is self funding, but she does not want to sell her house to find her carehome costs. So at some point there was a financial assessment ?
I am assuming that you do have a Lasting power of attorney or a Deputyship in place for looking after your Mum’s money?
You can talk to a solicitor about it if you are unsure what to do but dont do anything with the house without getting qualified advice. Also if your Mum has dementia she is entitled to be provided with an Independent Mental Health Advocate to help her understand and give her opinion on any major decisions. My Mum had one of these when everything kicked off.

I have been in a similar situation to you …before Mum passed away, she did nOT want to go into a care home but after a hospital stay she was discharged to one for assessment, the hospital decided in her best interests, and she ended up staying there.
Whilst you are deciding what to do with your Mums house, assuming you do have the deputyship or power of attorney, is make sure that everything which could possibly be of benefit it your Mum is taken to the care home for her.
Clothes, photos, toiletries, music, anything which possibly at some point she would want to see. My Mum was a keen gardener and I found a drawerful of seed packets in her house, which she really enjoyed looking through again and again. Also. The family photo album.
Personal items like that which she was attached to but had no real value cannot be replaced. Also religious items can give comfort.