help with COP forms

[LilyAB]

Hi all

I am a new member. My husband diagnosed with dementia/luck mental capacity a few months ago. I need to apply for a deputyship(property and financial). I want to fill the forms myself but find it difficult sometimes, e.g. COP 3 section 4 Further information. I could write only 1 or 2 sentence. Don't know what else to write. If you have any experiences filling these forms, could you please help me with some examples? Thank you.

 

[Gosling]

Hello @LilyAB and welcome to Dementia Talking Point. You will find us a very supportive and friendly bunch of people who have first hand experience of all the various aspects of dementia.
I am sorry to read of your husband's recent diagnosis. You will always find good advice and understanding here, so I am glad that you have found us.
I don't have any direct experience of completing COP forms, but I am sure that others do, and they will doubtless be along shortly with helpful suggestions. Take care.

 

[jay6]

Welcome @LilyAB Sorry can't help with COP forms. But sure someone on here will soon.

 

[LilyAB]

Thank you!

 

[thistlejak]

@LilyAB - when we did these form for MIL and FIL we didn't put anything in the section but we did have a telephone conversation with the Independent Social worker who did the 'professional' bit. He asked about bank accounts, direct debits, pensions, house ownership etc . When he did the assessment he asked them about paying bills, who owned the house , did he/she have a bank account and who with and did he/she know how much was in it.
Really section 4 is to give them 'correct' information so that questions can be asked and the assessor can judge if they understand their finances.

 

[LilyAB]

Thank you thistlejak. It does make sense. I asked GP to do 'professional' bit but he said he needs to look at the form first. May be I need an Independent Social Worker. I have had meetings with 3 lawyers and each of them said different price, £5000+VAT, £350 for an hour and £2000 which I think too expensive.

 

[thistlejak]

We found the independent social worker on a google search - we paid £400 each for the assessment in 2019. I/we did the forms ourselves so didn't use a lawyer - my take on it was we would have to tell the lawyer all the details for them to complete the forms for us - I did have the time and head space to complete them though, just did one form at a time over a few days.
We only used the independent social worker as no one involved with their care would do COP3 even for payment.

 

[LilyAB]

Thank you for your help. It's very upsetting that no one wants help, I don't think my husband's GP will do COP3. Looked for an independent social worker online but no luck so far.

Would it be ok if I ask you for your help if I get stuck?

Thank you

 

[thistlejak]

We just 'googled' capacity assessment uk - and found one as close to us as possible - we are in Yorkshire.

Don't think I am allowed to recommend a specific firm.

Most of the ones that advertise will travel to see you.

 

[LilyAB]

We live in Peterborough but my husband was born in Yorkshire lived there a quite long time. I've contacted a company online. They can do COP3 Capacity Assessment for £500 plus VAT. The problem is that the assessment would be conducted remotely. I don't think my husband would agree to that. I've sent the COP3 form to my husband's GP. Let's what they will say.

Could you also help me with the questions bellow please? I really appreciate your help. The same questions I have in other forms too. I don't know if my answers right answers and don't know what else to write.

Section 3 - About the application

3.1. Please state the matter you are asking the court to decide.
My answer: Appointment of deputy for property and affairs

3.2. What order are you asking the court to make?
My answer: I would like the court to appoint me a deputy for property and affairs.

3.3 How would the order benefit the person to whom the application relates?
My answer: I will be able pay his bills, organise his pension and manage his bank accounts and his property.

Thank you

 

[thistlejak]

From memory I think these were the answers I/we used

3.1 - That ( in your case your husbands name) lacks the capacity to administer his financial affairs

3.2 To appoint (your name plus anyone else listed in the application) as deputy for (your husbands name) in relation to his financial affairs

3.3 - similar to what you put

One question I have is - are you going to be the only Deputy? If so you might have difficulties in future with regards to any jointly held property as you can't act for yourself and as Deputy for him. When we sold my in laws house we had to represent one of each of them even though we were both Deputies for them both. It might be worth an email to The Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) to clarify your position.

 

[LilyAB]

Thank you so much. You're really good. Your suggestions help me a lot. Thanks to you I finished one form and started another one.

Yes, I'm going to be the only Deputy because there is no one else. We have a son but he is too young. My husband has a brother but he's much older than my husband. I've never met him and I don't know where he lives.... I really don't know any of his relatives. That was/is my husband's choice not mine and all these make it so difficult for me to find 3 people to notify. We don't have joint accounts and the house is in his name.

Thanks again for your time/help

 

[LilyAB]

COP4 Section 4 - Your personal undertakings to the person to whom the application relates Becoming a deputy means that you have to take on a number of duties and responsibilities and have to act in accordance with certain standards. If you are appointed as a deputy, the court order will set out the exact powers conferred on you. The main duties and responsibilities you may have to take on are set out below. Please review each one and tick ‘Yes’ if you give your undertaking to act in accordance with the duty or responsibility. You can use the ‘Comments’ section to support your undertakings. Please mention if you have a particular professional skill, life experience, public duty or role that you think is relevant. If you do not give your undertaking and tick ‘No’, please use the ‘Comments’ section to explain your reasons. It may be because you do not yet have experience in the particular duty, or think you might not have the skills needed. It will not necessarily prevent your appointment as deputy. Not all of the undertakings set out below will be relevant to every deputy. If you think this is the case, tick ‘No’ and explain in the ‘Comments’ section that the undertaking would be irrelevant to your appointment.

There are a lot of undertaking. Do I have to use comments section to explain my reasons if I tick 'Yes' every time?

Thank you,

 

[Chizz]

Just my thoughts:
I would go a bit further in 3,3
If you want to go ahead and actually sell the property, then I suggest you say you want the order to authorise you to sell, and to invest the proceeds of sale.

 

[LilyAB]

Thank you chizz.

At present I live in the house with our young son(about 10 years old). After the assessment of the house the hospital said that they can't discharge my husband home because he can't walk upstairs safely but he really wants to come home. So I told my husband (usually in the morning his mind is very clear) maybe it's a good idea sell the house and buy a bungalow or build extension.

Do you think it's a good idea to put all these in 3.3?

Thank you,

 

[nitram]

A common reason for asking permission to sell a house is that the person is in permanent residential care and has no further use of it, proof of permanent residential care should be provided.

In your case a hospital statement that he cannot use stairs would be required. Don't know if court would have to give permission to build extension, probably best to use an either/or form of wording.

Also remember that house is disregarded for financial as long as you live in it and buying a bungalow at an increased price could cause problems, everybody could just reduce assets by buying a more expensive property.

 

[LilyAB]

Thank you nitram.

The mortgage for the house isn't paid full but there are only a few thousands left.

Did I understand correctly: if the house is disregarded for financial, we can't sell it and buy a bungalow for a similar price?

Do you think it would be better don't ask anything about selling house, just mention extension?

Sometimes I want to take my husband home. The care home said that I can take him only for day time and take him back in the evening. It's summer so we're in the garden most of time but in the winter it will not be easy to take him home.

 

[nitram]

Did I understand correctly: if the house is disregarded for financial, we can't sell it and buy a bungalow for a similar price?

No, buying at same price would not alter the amount of disregarded capital, buying at increased price using his capital would move some capital from pot available for care to disregarded pot.

Do you think it would be better don't ask anything about selling house, just mention extension?

Getting permission for something does not mean you have to do it, keeping all options open sounds a good ploy.

Sometimes I want to take my husband home. The care home said that I can take him only for day time and take him back in the evening. It's summer so we're in the garden most of time but in the winter it will not be easy to take him home.

Don't forget toileting arrangements.

 

[LilyAB]

I want to order portable toilets from Amazon.

Can Care Home or social services help me?

Sorry, I am new to all these and his has an apprentice social worker...

 

[Jessbow]

I want to order portable toilets from Amazon.

Can Care Home or social services help me?

Sorry, I am new to all these and his has an apprentice social worker...

SS should be able to help you with a commode, not sure how in practice that would work if he lives elsewhere- its always worth a phone call, probably Occ health?