1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

HELP! Long posting... but need all the help on offer..

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by DaisyG, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. DaisyG

    DaisyG Registered User

    Feb 20, 2006
    183
    North West England
    Not sure where to begin. Got lots of questions to ask…

    Have been having a terrible time these past few weeks.
    Aggression IS REALLY back…. CPN involved A LOT MORE now (2 x week).
    Drugs not working … STILL having to be careful as they interact with seizure drugs.

    LOTS of ‘talk’ of me having to be hurt…asking to be hurt… needing to be hurt.
    He has said... "If I wanted to kill you.... it wouldn't be a difficult thing...."

    Up until that 'comment' I WAS coping (as well as anyone could)...
    Now I have a broken heart.



    As usual (for me) my useless in laws are of no help. They seem to think the aggression is OK.
    MIL ‘suggested’ “Why can’t you just hurt him back ? !!’
    Explained that it will only fuel the aggression…. They are not in the least bit worried for me….
    I have told them I am scared of my husband…. A lot of the time……

    Other ‘problems’ much worse…
    Has been getting lost in our home …. Sleeping ‘pattern’ all over the place.. up and down all night…
    Not recognising some foods… “Do I like this’ … Have I had it before?” … Christmas Dinner !!
    Incontinence worse …. Mobility worse… Forgetting he has eaten / taken medication …. Daily!!
    Trying to ‘walk’ without his stick, as he has forgotten he uses one…. more stumbles.
    Generally ‘disturbed’ more by ANY light / sound / smells …. Misinterpretation of my tone of voice ….
    HATING some people on TV… has to be switched off …
    Refusing to eat as he will ‘choke’ …. Then asking me to feed him….
    DOES NOT BELIEVE A SINGLE WORD I SAY ….Including telling him the time!!


    BIGGEST ‘PROBLEM’ … THE STORY TELLING HAS SERIOUSLY ESCALATED…
    He has told his Social Worker that I have stolen all of his money … as well as a lot of his possessions.
    Husband is NOW ready to go to the POLICE !!
    He does not believe the Bank Statements…Or the On-Line banking records .. Or the Mini Statements
    He has made up this REMARKABLE seriously detailed ‘story’ that he and his 4 brothers are multi-millionaires ,
    and that the bank would go-under without their money !!
    He does not have 4 brothers … Nor is anyone remotely well off / rich !!
    THE SOCIAL WORKER HAS PROMISED HIM THAT SHE WILL SORT THIS OUT FOR HIM…
    WILL TAKE HIM TO THE BANK ‘PERSONALLY’ … TO GET HIM SOME ANSWERS.

    I’ve given him all the answers that are TRUE and REAL ….
    Taken him to the bank… Still does not believe anything anyone says….
    I must have sent it off shore then….!!
    He will not quit till he FINDS this money.. and the only other thing he can do is have me arrested… apparently….


    So…. Needless to say my head and heart have been all over the place…
    I’ve cried buckets of tears… and now I don’t know what to do next…..
    NEED HELP AND ADVISE PLEASE?

    I know that it is ‘time to say goodbye’ to this current life of mine… and move on in the next few months..
    I STILL LOVE MY DEAR HUSBAND … But he is just too much for me to handle….

    One of my questions is…
    “What happens in the Nursing Home when my husband starts ‘talking’ about all this non – existent money?”
    We will be self funding for a while till the money ‘runs out’ (I WILL HAVE TO SELL THIS HOME).

    Thanks for letting me rant a little….


    Take Care.

    A very sad DaisyG
     
  2. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    hi daisy G

    sorry you're having such an awful time of it. there's no easy answers i guess ... but what strikes me is that the first thing needs to be yours and his physical safety. it's not safe for either of you to be living with that kind of aggression. does the CPN and/or social worker know you're getting to the end of your tether with it?

    i doubt he'd believe the social worker or the bank any better if she took him there, but perhaps at least her promising him that might have taken the heat out of the situation at that moment.

    what happens at the nursing home when he starts telling them about all the money he has? not a lot I don't suppose. sadly lots of people there say lots of things, often about money. there'll be finance checks I suppose, once you're not self funding (the social worker will know about that side of things) and it's that that will be listened to, not your husbands comments about rich relatives.

    the practical things like that can be sorted out. sadly your broken heart will take longer to mend.

    hugs
    Áine
     
  3. Kriss

    Kriss Registered User

    May 20, 2004
    513
    Shropshire
    Oh Dear Daisy, it sounds like you are suffering that dreadful rejection feeling along with all of the other horrors of the aggression and delusions and the physical worries. Not a good place to be but one that we can all sympathise with.

    Any "home" or "professional" will recognise these symptoms as the norm but I guess we also need them to listen to the sufferer (him in this respect!) which makes it even harder for us to deal with.

    It is easier to say to take no notice of the relatives than it is to actually do it but keep hold to your motives in all you do. When you can answer all the questions you ask yourself knowing you do/say things for his best interests then you will get through this.

    Hang on in there!
     
  4. DaisyG

    DaisyG Registered User

    Feb 20, 2006
    183
    North West England
    Aine (sorry can't remember how to accent your name)..

    I've already told the Social Worker that he will not believe her either.. and that in an hour or so will deny having gone in the first place.
    I've ALOS warned her that HE will swear at the bank manager and call her a liar .. and suggest to her that she is 'in on it' (the hiding of the money) too.

    She thinks that my husband will beleive 'an outsider'.
    She says that she has his interests at heart .. which I believe .... BUT I also feel a little threatened... in that I am not being 'believed'.
     
  5. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    hey ....... i think that's the least of your problems just now ...... it really doesn't matter :)

    i can see where the social worker is coming from .... it would make sense in some circumstances ..... but it sounds as though this situation has gone further than that.

    maybe when you've got your husband constantly disbelieving you it makes you feel anxious that other people won't believe you either. if someone is accusing you of something 24/7 you can even end up disbelieving yourself! perhaps someone verifying the situation is what you need to put your mind at rest?
     
  6. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Hi DaisyG

    What a terrible situation you're in. It's an awful decision to heve to make, to hand over the care of your husband.......and one I'll have to make myself in the future.

    But you have put up with so much, and you can't go on like that. Your own health is at stake. You need to let your SW/CPN know that the situation is more than you can cope with.

    As for selling the house, are you sure you have to? My understanding is that as long as one partner is living in the marital home, it doesn't count in the financial assessment.

    Love,
     
  7. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    Hiya Daisy,

    Try not to think that Daisy - maybe the social worker is thinking 'anything is worth a try'. My mum used to threaten to phone the police nightly to get dad to leave B]her[/B]house - there was no reasoning with her.
    I think realising that you have gone as far as you can go, and accepting that full time care is the only option left, is so very hard. But you have to do what is right for both of you. We understand that it is not a case of 'not loving' anymore - but sometimes the most loving thing that you can do is to let go, and accept that someone else is actually better equipped to provide the care that is needed.
    Love Helen
     
  8. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,417
    Daisy, what every one else has said. Big Hugs

    Your last comment about selling your home - there is NO reason that this "has to" happen. When one of a couple moves to a care home, the LA must disregard the marital home for the purpose of calculating fees. Also, if your husband is in receipt of a private pension 50% of that can be passed back to you and be disregarded for the purposes of the calculations. Youy might choose to sell the marital home, but then the property disregard stops, and 1/2 of the money realized goes back into the "pot". If at all possible, it is best to split the marital assets (excluding the marital home) at the time your husband enters the home - that way he spends down his savings without yours being affected.

    Jennifer
     
  9. DaisyG

    DaisyG Registered User

    Feb 20, 2006
    183
    North West England
    Thanks

    Thanks for your replies everyone…

    I did have a longer posting ready… but somehow the ‘computer’ ate half of it,
    and the last message was sent before I finished !
    This has happened before, and I don’t know why it does this … Ideas?

    Anyway, situation still same today (of course)….Bad night…

    Thing is, the answer my husband wants will NEVER happen.
    I can’t make something (in this case money), appear/happen….
    Nor can I make his other missing possessions appear….
    He thinks it’s the 1970….something…. and is missing his ‘clothes’ etc from this era!!


    I reluctantly did the ‘bank thing’…. And he still does not believe either me or the manager at the bank…
    or the printouts… etc…etc.. It was embarrassing.
    His psychologist said that I really should not have done this , as it ‘fuels’ his belief that HE is right.
    But she understands why I had to do this.
    In the past I have failed miserably at trying to ‘distract ‘ his attention away from subjects on which he has become obsessed…
    This time it is even more impossible.


    I / we really have nothing to ‘hide’ from anyone, but it upsets me that I have to keep going through this.

    I know that there is a REALLY GOOD chance of my husband NOT remembering yet another bank visit….
    He does not even recognise the CPN on each of her visits!!
    And we will be in a ‘loop’ of ‘requests’ to visit the bank again and again…
    I cannot do this. Why should I? I can’t see an end to this.

    Social Worker and Psychologist both seeing things from different angles…. With me stuck in the middle.


    It amazes me at how very detailed this story has become.
    I'm not sure how it started. if he read... saw something that made him think that he has millions !! And now his brothers have too.......!!


    The other things he is missing are all 'numerical' too....
    1000's of albums ...... 100's of books .... etc etc......
    All 'missing things' are not just one or two.

    It has to be related in some way... don't you think?



    Will post later today…. When feeling a little better.


    Take Care

    DaisyG.
     
  10. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,680
    Kent
    Dear Daisy,
    I`m so sorry you are having such a hard time. However much you love your husband, he is no longer open to reason.
    You are hurting yourself by trying a logical discussion with someone who has lost it.
    All the tales, exagerations and accusations will not be believed. The people he tries to convince of your deceit have heard it all before. They know who to believe.
    Your in-laws need not be considered. They have given you no help, only added to your worries.
    Is it now time to hand the care of your husband over to professionals. I hate to say this, as it`s my dread too, but there is a possibility that if he were in a home, your time with him would eventually have more quality.
    Love Sylvia x
     
  11. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    interested that someone else has had this kind of thing. my dad used to double things up ........ and double them again some days later. he'd start by saying he was one of five children (which he is) and had 3 brothers (yes) ......... later he'd say he was one of 10 and had 6 brothers ............... everything else got doubled too ....... two wives, two mothers, even two of him
     
  12. alex

    alex Registered User

    Apr 10, 2006
    1,665
    Hiya Daisy

    Daisy ........i can't believe that your still struggling to cope with this situation on your own.............or that your SW hasn't taken over...........i'm sorry, but jesus.........it makes me so bl**dy mad!!!!!!!

    I'm more interested in the fact that your in a violent situation............i'm not saying that the 'believing stuff' from your husband is not important..........it is and i can understand how you feel, but most people with AD have this problem and i don't think anyone will think less of you, whatever he says.

    That said............have you got someone who can stay with you if your frightened?
    How on earth have you coped with this so long?............your amazing!
    I agree with Amy............and i think its time to pass the caring on to others who are more equipped to deal with these kind of problems...........you can't do it on your own...............you need a medal to have coped this far...............but if i was you i'd take ss by the short & curlies and insist that they have a time scale to get things sorted out..........and i'd make that a very short one!

    In the meantime you must ensure your own safety!

    Love Alex x
     
  13. DaisyG

    DaisyG Registered User

    Feb 20, 2006
    183
    North West England
    Thanks again...

    You are all so kind .

    I know I am not the only one going throught this 'mess' for want of a better word.

    I know that I am not meant to explain / reason etc.... but sometimes you find yourself doing it automatically.... can't help it.
    I've done a dementia course that is meant to help 'us as carers' deal with difficult situations, and challenging behavior.

    I'm not sure that I am 'happy' with the Social Worker doing this ... explaining... reasoning... thing... by taking my husband to the bank.
    She says that he will believe her !! (you never know!!).



    Yes, alex... the behavior is a serious matter.
    I don't know how I do it either... I just do... It's my life.

    I've learnt how to 'get away' and have a secure lockable room (utility room!!)
    if I need 'space'.
    If I HAVE to leave in a hurry I know where I will go....



    In my past life I 'dealt with' ADHD kids... Downs kids... + other challenging jobs/ situations.
    There must be 'something' in my make up... that makes me the carer I am.
    I'm a big softie for helping 'all creatures great and small'. Always have been.


    Yes, as soon as possible I am going to sort out the Nursing Home situation.
    i think that the next batch of 'respite' will be the final one... meaning.... my husband will think he is going to come home... but really he will be staying in for good.


    Not sure if he needs a 'special type' of nursing home... as he is aggressive etc....

    Lots of things to research and organise in the next week/s or so.


    I want the VERY best for him (as we all do). I want him to be happy if this is at all possible.


    I'll keep you all posted.

    Got a few Nursing Home questions I'll post about at a later date.

    Thanks to everyone.

    Take Care


    DaisyG.
     
  14. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    3,518
    I think your husband has done what many AD sufferers do. He has constructed a reality to fit his beliefs. This is an attempt to reconcile, in his mind, conflicting facts. Your husband is convinced that the money was there, now it is not, therefore the only explanation is that someone has stolen it. That person could even be you. This is plainly ridiculous, but IMHO that "reality" is still easier to cope with than the truth - that his own mind and memory cannot be trusted and are wrong.

    Your husband knows he is "right", as much as you do.

    Sadly, no how hard you hammer away at the shell he has constructed around himself you are unlikely to change his mind. He will simply ignore or not believe what doesn't suit his beliefs.

    We had this very problem with my dad who became very paranoid and convinced that the neighbours were evil people who were damaging our property by creeping out at night with a ladder to climb onto our roof. It is daft but nothing we did could convince him otherwise - I even took "before" and "after" photographs and he didn't believe them and just flew into a rage. Paranoids, too, make facts fit their beliefs like "that person is talking about me, when I looked at them they looked away which proves it".

    Sometimes someone with AD will respond to a stranger or someone they regard as an "authority figure" (my Dad was a lot better after the doctor gave him a good talking to) but sometimes not. That's probably what the social worker wanted to try.

    sadly it does sound as though your husband is at the stage where this won;t help, but the SW is duty-bound to try every avenue first.

    I don't think you need to worry about his story telling - anyone he is likely to talk to will have seen this sort of stuff before and will simply ignore it.

    As has been said, AFAIK when it comes to property, the local authority must ignore the home, if the spouse is living in it (might have to be over 60 but not sure about that).
     
  15. DaisyG

    DaisyG Registered User

    Feb 20, 2006
    183
    North West England
    Nebiroth,
    We've had the paranoia and delusions for so long now.
    Sometimes they are more irritating than others.


    When we 'watch' TV, if the scene has someone 'talking in the background'... and not really part of what is happening in the programme....
    he thinks they are talking about him... and DEMANDS to know
    "What is going on ?!!"
    Needs to... has to... know what was being 'said' .... if it was not about him.


    This vascular dementia can be so demanding, in ways which you cannot even begin to imagine, unless of course you are in the same situation.


    He's recently begun to see / hallucinate that he is 'bleeding'.
    He says he's "bleeding to death"... when there is nothing 'there'.
    Last night it was his toes were bleeding ... and this evening it's his cheek....

    This 'bleeding' thing is NEW to me.
    All I've been doing for now is...... dabbing the area gently and kissing it better.
    Don't know what else to do.
    If i say ... "No... you are not bleeding...." It may provoke another violent outburst.

    Has anyone elase here had a problem with imaginary bleeding?

    Thanks again.

    DaisyG
     
  16. DickG

    DickG Registered User

    Feb 26, 2006
    558
    Stow-on-the-Wold
    Hi Daisy

    I don't know if I can add anthing to what has already been said but I will try. I know that it is very painful but something dramatic has to happen to open the flood gates before things get better. If your husband were to involve the police they would not be happy about the situation and may insist that something is done to sort the problem out, whatever was decided you will find very painful but is it not already painful beyond belief? As with most problems in life it often requires a crisis to bring about a solution.

    I don't think that I have been very helpful but my thoughts are with you, keep in touch.

    Hugs

    Dick
     
  17. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Hi Daisy, haven't had to cope with bleeding, but for some weeks earlier last year Lionel used to say that his eye was going round and round.

    Nothing would convince him otherwise. He would demand the doctor, so I would 'phone' and say I had made an appointment. He maintained that if I really looked in his eyes I would see this. After a while this subsided, along with the money paranoia (Oh those elusive millions!), but he was prescribed a different anti-psycotic, so that might have helped.

    So sorry to read how bad life is for you both at present. Sending you a hug.
     
  18. Nell

    Nell Registered User

    Aug 9, 2005
    1,170
    Australia



    Dear Daisy,
    You are above reproach. You know it. We know it. Without doubt the professionals with whom you are dealing know it too.
    You need not try to convice anyone of your honesty and your honourable behaviour.

    As others have said, your husband is no longer rational. Telling, showing, explaining, etc. will make no difference. It is time now for you to just "accept" that he cannot be reasoned with. The hurt you feel will lessen if you can change your own mindset and see his behaviour as the illness not the man you married.

    I think (IMHO!!:rolleyes: ) that is well and truly time to have professional care full time for your husband. His lack of rationality may well result in violence to yourself. If you are injured, BOTH of you will suffer. How can you care for him if you are injured? Please, plese recognise that putting him into a care situation is the best thing for him as well as yourself. (I know this is 'giving advice', but I feel very strongly that you could be at risk in your current situation.)


    Altho' I write as if it is straightforward, I do know how hard it all is. Please know that I (and others on TP) are sending you our caring wishes for the strength you need to cope. Thinking of you. Nell
     
  19. Cate

    Cate Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    1,370
    Newport, Gwent
    Hi Daisy

    I cannot add anything further to what others already have, except to say that I agree 100% with all that has been said, and that you should consider your own safety.

    Would it not be kinder to have a 'planned' moved to a suitable NH for your husband, rather than reach crisis and it happen in this respect.

    My thoughts are with you, please take care of yourself.
    Love
    Cate
     
  20. jc141265

    jc141265 Registered User

    Sep 16, 2005
    836
    Australia
    On looking after your heart during these hard times...

    Daisy,

    This may seem entirely impractical but it works for some weirdos like me...:p

    You can do this in your head or you can actually physically do it...I will describe the physical method as that is easiest to understand:

    First find a box, preferably something lockable and pretty.
    Second find something in the house or in your possessions that you really treasure (but won't be needing for a while), a special necklace, broach, locket, or rings for example. This item is going to represent your heart.

    Third find something that reminds you of the good times with your husband, it might be a photo or some other special memento. Naturally due to the nature of this disease don't make it something he might miss and then will start accusing you of stealing.

    Now what you are going to do is to lock these two things in a box together. You're going to lock your heart away before it is smashed to pieces, and you are going to lock your fond memories away before they are destroyed by the horrible new ones.

    Now keep that box in your bedroom, know its there all the time, that one day you will be able to open it and have your heart back and your wonderful memories back but for now you must put them away to keep them safe. Sometimes when you get a bit of quiet time you may want to open the box and just look at the things in it for a while, or you just might want to go to sleep holding the box. But when things are really bad just keep that box locked up tight and know that your heart and memories are safe in there until a better time comes again.

    I know it may seem like mumbo jumbo and a lot of rot if you are not in the frame of mind to consider such an action and I apologise for not being of more help if this is the case. I am writing it though just in case now is the time you need such sentiments, need some belief in fairy tale like things.

    If this method works for you, sometimes it can make the pain easier if you can tell your subconscious that although things are bloody hard, and you miss your husband dearly, that you will be able to deal with it all because you have locked away the vulnerable things until a future safer time. Afterall as it is said time and time again on here, this is not your husband who is doing these horrible things, it is the disease. We all wish our loved ones could fight the damn disease better, but they are not the first and will not be the last who couldn't do it. Take your revenge on the basta$%d disease though by not letting it win completely, keep your heart and memories safe from it by locking them away until after it thinks it has taken everything from you and your husband.
     

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