The sentence means that people who give no thought to religion in life are not surprisingly choosing non religious funerals. Let me know if you want a further explanation.
Does this trend for 'fun' funerals demeans the dead
- Thread starter jimbo 111
- Start date
The sentence means that people who give no thought to religion in life are not surprisingly choosing non religious funerals. Let me know if you want a further explanation.
That's assuming the deceased has expressed a preference in advance. If they have not discussed it with their nearest and dearest, the decision will be made by those left behind.
I have made it clear what I would expect, but actually I have no idea what my husband would want, as this seems to be another one of those 'head in the sand' issues for a lot of people.
He's a lapsed Catholic so although he would probably call himself agnostic these days, my guess he would want a vaguely religious ceremony as a sort of insurance policy. I'm not being flippant saying that, btw. I have had it explained to me by someone who sits on the fence in terms of faith, that if there is no God/afterlife, then it doesn't make any difference, but just in case there is, she'd rather hedge her bets....
And all of this raises the issue of the need to discuss this with those who are closest to us so that they know what we would like for our final farewell.
I would like to think that my children know me well enough to understand what I would consider appropriate for me but at the time of grieving sometimes others feel that they have the right to put their point of view.
Like most of us here, I have had to attend a few funerals in the last few years and the ones that touched me most were the ones that truly reflected the life of the deceased, their values, the things that they achieved in their life and the little things that set them apart as individuals.
I would like to think that my children know me well enough to understand what I would consider appropriate for me but at the time of grieving sometimes others feel that they have the right to put their point of view.
Like most of us here, I have had to attend a few funerals in the last few years and the ones that touched me most were the ones that truly reflected the life of the deceased, their values, the things that they achieved in their life and the little things that set them apart as individuals.
I'd really rather refrain from any further discussion thank you.
You know what you meant when you wrote it and and I can only take from it what I read. So be it.
I know what you mean, Jimbo. A well done religious service can be very dignified, and having an accepted and known set of rituals does seem to help.
Humanist funerals can work, though. I've been to one that wasn't a "fun funeral" and was respectful and dignified.
Personally, I think the most important factor is the person who will be conducting the service - some of them are totally hopeless!
Humanist funerals can work, though. I've been to one that wasn't a "fun funeral" and was respectful and dignified.
Personally, I think the most important factor is the person who will be conducting the service - some of them are totally hopeless!
Discuss it or don't discuss it, I couldn't care less. But I'm not going to silently accept weird criticism of a sentence that was hardly ambiguous, especially in the context of the thread.
In my case it should be pretty easy to figure out as I made a conscious decision to leave church once I left education and started earning. In Germany everyone pays a tax to the church from their earnings unless they opt out of church altogether, with all that it entails. I was told it meant I could not get married in church or get a church funeral. Guess what? I don't intend to anyway. Whether my decision that is valid in Germany, has any power over here, I have no idea but everyone who knows me well enough will be aware.
I guess a lot of church attendance and using church facilities comes from tradition and not wanting to rock the boat, quite frankly, which might explain why some avoidance only comes later in life. I have no problem with religion as such, and if OH wanted the works, he'd get it. But I know for a fact he doesn't.
I guess a lot of church attendance and using church facilities comes from tradition and not wanting to rock the boat, quite frankly, which might explain why some avoidance only comes later in life. I have no problem with religion as such, and if OH wanted the works, he'd get it. But I know for a fact he doesn't.
That is so true Tara.
At my mother's funeral, the person conducting the service at the crematorium, was a Baptist minister. His first words were that "this woman has died because she has sinned". I was shocked and close to shouting at him or walking out. I hardly heard the rest, I was so upset. His whole address was about people who only go to church when they are christened, married and dead. Sheer propaganda for his particular church and totally untrue about my mother.
He was my sister's choice as she knew him, he was from our home county in Wales and had liked the way he had conducted a friend's husband's funeral. My mother was Cof E and would have preferred a formal church funeral I know.
I was disgusted and regret that politeness meant that I didn't tell him so.
At my mother's funeral, the person conducting the service at the crematorium, was a Baptist minister. His first words were that "this woman has died because she has sinned". I was shocked and close to shouting at him or walking out. I hardly heard the rest, I was so upset. His whole address was about people who only go to church when they are christened, married and dead. Sheer propaganda for his particular church and totally untrue about my mother.
He was my sister's choice as she knew him, he was from our home county in Wales and had liked the way he had conducted a friend's husband's funeral. My mother was Cof E and would have preferred a formal church funeral I know.
I was disgusted and regret that politeness meant that I didn't tell him so.
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I went to a humanist London funeral with 6 horses drawn carriage . It was beautiful, full of poems , songs and family members talking about the deceased . There was laughter, tears and sadness but also joy in celebrating his life. Afterwards it was a cockney knees up , very different but equally beautiful
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When I was arranging my husband's funeral recently I tried to hit the midway mark between conventional and celebratory. For me it is all about respect for the deceased person and the family and friends - how the deceased lived their life and whatever seems right and appropriate for each individual occasion. My husband was definitely not religious - he always joked "if there is an afterlife I hope it has a well-stocked bar!" but I felt that prayers would be appropriate because of the prevalent age group of the congregation with some lighter moments from the younger members of his family and some cheerful music at the beginning and end of the service. I feel it worked in our case but obviously it would not have suited everyone.
Plenty of people married in Church because it was preferable to the often unattractive council registry office, and up until fairly recently they were your only choices. The same people may have chosen to baptise their children because it was sort of expected and was a good excuse for a party. Doesn't mean they were religious or had a "faith", and if that was the case they wouldn't be abandoning anything but opting for a less formal and rigid send off.
Whichever way people choose to bring a life to a close is up to them. I would certainly rather be party to a celebration of someone's life, complete with stories and anecdotes to make you smile fondly, than simply mourn someone's passing whilst being addressed by a minister who had never even met the deceased.
My lovely dad went behind his final curtain to the strains of Billie Jo Spears belting out "Blanket on the Ground" his favourite country and western song!
Whichever way people choose to bring a life to a close is up to them. I would certainly rather be party to a celebration of someone's life, complete with stories and anecdotes to make you smile fondly, than simply mourn someone's passing whilst being addressed by a minister who had never even met the deceased.
My lovely dad went behind his final curtain to the strains of Billie Jo Spears belting out "Blanket on the Ground" his favourite country and western song!
I think if you discuss your wishes with the minister who is going to conduct the funeral and they are sympathetic with that there is no problem. I have been to several humanist funerals and not found them at all disrespectful, in fact there has been a part where one is left to reflect quietly on your memories of the deceased and it has always be added in that this is an appropriate moment for those with religious beliefs to offer a private prayer.
When my mum died my dad wanted a religious minister at the crematorium although neither he nor mum had shown any signs of being religious. I would go with whatever was a comfort to him. The normal chap the funeral directors used was already engaged so we were offered a ladt from the old catholic church. When we met with her to discuss arrangements I knew she was right. She was so interested in us all on a personal basis and was offering an individual ceremony- not this is what we do. I told her I was not religious, one of my aunts was a committed churchgoer and one of my uncles and all his family were Jehovahs witnesses. She had a twinkle in her eye as she said to me "I'll put something in that will be of significance to him, but no-one else will even notice it".
Many relatives, including this uncle and aunt and various ones with no religion remarked how well it had been done.
I think the best you can do is respect the wishes of the dead and the living and try to make it inclusive of everyone.
My mum was one of twelve children and the remaining living ten brought with them a bouquet of 12 yellow roses to represent them all. We did not know in advance they were going to do this. This wonderful minister having spoken to my aunts and uncles whilst we were waiting to go in, took the flowers from them and as she walked to the front to begin laid them on my mum's coffin. I loved that she did that
Tre
PS I absolutely hate My Way and if anyone plays this terrible song at my funeral I will come back to haunt them. Mum always said she wanted " It,s a wonderful world" which is so much nicer but no I fill up with love for her whenever I hear it.
When my mum died my dad wanted a religious minister at the crematorium although neither he nor mum had shown any signs of being religious. I would go with whatever was a comfort to him. The normal chap the funeral directors used was already engaged so we were offered a ladt from the old catholic church. When we met with her to discuss arrangements I knew she was right. She was so interested in us all on a personal basis and was offering an individual ceremony- not this is what we do. I told her I was not religious, one of my aunts was a committed churchgoer and one of my uncles and all his family were Jehovahs witnesses. She had a twinkle in her eye as she said to me "I'll put something in that will be of significance to him, but no-one else will even notice it".
Many relatives, including this uncle and aunt and various ones with no religion remarked how well it had been done.
I think the best you can do is respect the wishes of the dead and the living and try to make it inclusive of everyone.
My mum was one of twelve children and the remaining living ten brought with them a bouquet of 12 yellow roses to represent them all. We did not know in advance they were going to do this. This wonderful minister having spoken to my aunts and uncles whilst we were waiting to go in, took the flowers from them and as she walked to the front to begin laid them on my mum's coffin. I loved that she did that
Tre
PS I absolutely hate My Way and if anyone plays this terrible song at my funeral I will come back to haunt them. Mum always said she wanted " It,s a wonderful world" which is so much nicer but no I fill up with love for her whenever I hear it.
Common sense tells me that I should let this thread die its ‘natural death’ like so many subjects do on TP
But in all the posts I have read I have not seen one that answers my question
Why, when so many of us have been brought up as Christians and followed the religion through baptisms, and weddings with all the sacraments and testaments of faith
Why do we turn our backs on this faith when we finally meet our Maker ???????
I am well aware that most of us still call ourselves Christian ( myself included ), ,but rarely see the inside of a church
I have carefully read the responses , and also read the revealing Document by the Humanist Association laying out their beliefs
British Humanist Association
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
British Humanist Association
Formation 1896
Location United Kingdom
President Jim Al-Khalili
Chief Executive Andrew Copson
History
(BHA) is a charitable organisation which promotes humanism and aims to represent "people who seek to live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs" in the United Kingdom[1] by campaigning on issues relating to humanism, secularism, and human rights. The organisation also supports humanist and non-religious ceremonies in England and Wales,[2] and maintains a national network of accredited celebrants for humanist funeral ceremonies, weddings, civil partnerships, and baby namings. The current President of the BHA is Jim Al-Khalili and the Chief Executive is Andrew Copson. The association currently has 70 affiliated regional and special interest groups and claims a total of approximately 40,000 members and supporters.[3]
What Do Humanists Believe?
http://www.humanistsofutah.org/1992/art2aug92.html
and I still haven’t found the answer to my question
jimbo
Ps Incidentally although I wish my funeral to be traditional I still want the introduction to be
Enya - If I could be where you are"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GBGaloOxNkU#t=27
and exit -Rod Stewart - I am Sailing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u1v60FITAfY#t=11
Songs with enormous significance
Testament to my belief in the hereafter and being once more with my departed wife
j
But in all the posts I have read I have not seen one that answers my question
Why, when so many of us have been brought up as Christians and followed the religion through baptisms, and weddings with all the sacraments and testaments of faith
Why do we turn our backs on this faith when we finally meet our Maker ???????
I am well aware that most of us still call ourselves Christian ( myself included ), ,but rarely see the inside of a church
I have carefully read the responses , and also read the revealing Document by the Humanist Association laying out their beliefs
British Humanist Association
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
British Humanist Association
Formation 1896
Location United Kingdom
President Jim Al-Khalili
Chief Executive Andrew Copson
History
(BHA) is a charitable organisation which promotes humanism and aims to represent "people who seek to live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs" in the United Kingdom[1] by campaigning on issues relating to humanism, secularism, and human rights. The organisation also supports humanist and non-religious ceremonies in England and Wales,[2] and maintains a national network of accredited celebrants for humanist funeral ceremonies, weddings, civil partnerships, and baby namings. The current President of the BHA is Jim Al-Khalili and the Chief Executive is Andrew Copson. The association currently has 70 affiliated regional and special interest groups and claims a total of approximately 40,000 members and supporters.[3]
What Do Humanists Believe?
http://www.humanistsofutah.org/1992/art2aug92.html
and I still haven’t found the answer to my question
jimbo
Ps Incidentally although I wish my funeral to be traditional I still want the introduction to be
Enya - If I could be where you are"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GBGaloOxNkU#t=27
and exit -Rod Stewart - I am Sailing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u1v60FITAfY#t=11
Songs with enormous significance
Testament to my belief in the hereafter and being once more with my departed wife
j
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I think it's an interesting thread.
I mentioned it already but I think that convention dictates a lot in earlier years - we just do what everybody else does. Plus, as someone else mentioned, most churches are prettier to get married in. I also think that non-conventional funerals have gained more acceptance in recent years - they probably weren't the done thing not so long ago. So it's a sign of the times too.
Btw, I love Rod Stewart!
I mentioned it already but I think that convention dictates a lot in earlier years - we just do what everybody else does. Plus, as someone else mentioned, most churches are prettier to get married in. I also think that non-conventional funerals have gained more acceptance in recent years - they probably weren't the done thing not so long ago. So it's a sign of the times too.
Btw, I love Rod Stewart!
I'm happy to answer that, Jimbo.
I was brought up (and christened) in the Church of Scotland, dabbled with the Methodists (early teens/youth club/boys) but started to question all things religious mid-teens and called myself an agnostic.
I got married in a register office (marrying a catholic, albeit lapsed, was problematical for my parents), refused to have to my children christened (to the dismay of my Catholic MIL) and sent the children to a Cof E secondary school for the educational opportunities. It was then, when I saw faith in action first hand that I took a long hard look at what I believed.
I started reading seriously around the subject of religion, and rather than just accepting what I'd been told, it turned me into an out and out atheist. No afterlife (scary prospect imo), no 'Maker', no doubt at all in my mind that religion is just a way of controlling the masses. Tell me all your secrets in confession and I have you in my thrall for life.
Sorry if that offends, but as far as I can see, without religion, the world might be a better place.
I was brought up (and christened) in the Church of Scotland, dabbled with the Methodists (early teens/youth club/boys
) but started to question all things religious mid-teens and called myself an agnostic.I got married in a register office (marrying a catholic, albeit lapsed, was problematical for my parents), refused to have to my children christened (to the dismay of my Catholic MIL) and sent the children to a Cof E secondary school for the educational opportunities. It was then, when I saw faith in action first hand that I took a long hard look at what I believed.
I started reading seriously around the subject of religion, and rather than just accepting what I'd been told, it turned me into an out and out atheist. No afterlife (scary prospect imo), no 'Maker', no doubt at all in my mind that religion is just a way of controlling the masses. Tell me all your secrets in confession and I have you in my thrall for life.
Sorry if that offends, but as far as I can see, without religion, the world might be a better place.
I don't think there is an answer to your question jimbo, there is only an opinion.
My mother was laid to rest with the whole catholic ceremony as she was born a catholic and much later in life returned to the faith in a big way, I couldn't out of respect for her belief done it any other way it was what she wanted.
I however have no idea if I was christened or baptised or whatever, certainly my children weren't, I was married in a register office and the only time I ever go in a church is weddings and funerals so why should I be buried with any religious rites?
It's really what's right for you and obviously as you say the traditional thing is right for you and that's fine but for those of us who have no faith or have rejected it then we have a choice now that suits us, if you have someone as a friend who has no religion can you expect them to adopt one to fit in with their friends and family's idea of what a good funeral should be like.
K
I had never heard of the term "humanist' funeral before reading this thread. However after asking Auntie Google's opinion, I have to say that the funerals I have been to in the last 10 years or so here in New Zealand have all but one been of the humanist variety. Only two services have been in a church, one Catholic, one Presbyterian. The church services were of course of more a religious nature, but with a lovely informal celebrationery element. Typical funerals here are held in the lovely chapels attached to most funeral homes.The coffin in most cases is in place as the mourners arrive and until the family enter favourite music of the deceased is played. After the family arrive the celebrant or minister will speak to the congregation and reflect on the life of the deceased. According to the religious leanings of the deceased there may or may not be a bible reading, hymns or prayers. Family members and friends are then invited to share memories, and if the deceased has been a member of an organisation, a member also usually stands and delivers a tribute. In my Mum and Dad's cases I stood and delivered a eulogy to them, outlining their long and eventful lives.A photographic tribute then follows, showing aspects of their life in a chronological order, accompanied by a favourite piece of music. After the service the casket is taken out by family members, again to a piece of music that has meaning for either the deceased or the family. An informal cuppa and light refreshments is then served up in the hall attached to the funeral home. It varies from funeral to funeral when the casket is taken to the crematorium or cemetery, depending on whether or not there is an immediate cremation (and private or not) or committal to a burial plot. In a lot of cases family join the mourners for refreshments before taking their loved ones for a private cremation/burial.
I have enjoyed (if that is the right terminology) all the funerals I have been to, and even if they haven't been the way I would have done it, respect the way the deceased families have organised the personal way they have chosen to farewell their loved one.
I have enjoyed (if that is the right terminology) all the funerals I have been to, and even if they haven't been the way I would have done it, respect the way the deceased families have organised the personal way they have chosen to farewell their loved one.
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I think the world has changed a lot since jimbo was young.
We as children were always sent to Sunday school but my father and stepmother hardly ever went near a church. Stepmother would walk around the house singing hymns but was basically a rather evil woman. I think there were a lot of families who went to church because that was what people did, rather than because of any true set of beliefs.
At the age of 16 I came to the conclusion based on my experiences that there was a lot of hypocrisy associated with religion and that it was something I would avoid in the future. I have never been a Christian and don't consider that those traditions have anything to do with me.
I think that there are numerous people who have had similar experiences to mine and so choose to take a different path. As people became more educated, they also questioned the dogma and doctrines that they were presented with and found them wanting. One only has to look at the decline of church attendances to know that for many people traditional forms of religion lack relevance.
My guess is that in Australia, there would be fewer church weddings and fewer conducted by ministers of religion, priests etc than ever before. Many couples opt for different settings and use celebrants and in many of them God doesn't even rate a mention.
Funerals are still mostly in funeral chapels or churches but that is changing too with more celebrants participating than ever before.
The church has failed to adapt and adjust to a changing world and trying to adhere to a belief system that most of us no longer consider valid is a big part of the problem. Perhaps jimbo should look to the church to change rather than suggesting that there is something wrong with us for not conforming.
We as children were always sent to Sunday school but my father and stepmother hardly ever went near a church. Stepmother would walk around the house singing hymns but was basically a rather evil woman. I think there were a lot of families who went to church because that was what people did, rather than because of any true set of beliefs.
At the age of 16 I came to the conclusion based on my experiences that there was a lot of hypocrisy associated with religion and that it was something I would avoid in the future. I have never been a Christian and don't consider that those traditions have anything to do with me.
I think that there are numerous people who have had similar experiences to mine and so choose to take a different path. As people became more educated, they also questioned the dogma and doctrines that they were presented with and found them wanting. One only has to look at the decline of church attendances to know that for many people traditional forms of religion lack relevance.
My guess is that in Australia, there would be fewer church weddings and fewer conducted by ministers of religion, priests etc than ever before. Many couples opt for different settings and use celebrants and in many of them God doesn't even rate a mention.
Funerals are still mostly in funeral chapels or churches but that is changing too with more celebrants participating than ever before.
The church has failed to adapt and adjust to a changing world and trying to adhere to a belief system that most of us no longer consider valid is a big part of the problem. Perhaps jimbo should look to the church to change rather than suggesting that there is something wrong with us for not conforming.
