Carers kissing and cuddling CH residents

[reno]

... not quite as scandalous as it seems, but I'm finding it a little inappropriate. My mum was in a CH a long drive from me for a year - nice and no problems apart from the distance. I asked, from the outset, that she be moved, if ever possible, to another CH in the same group nearer me (she's LEA funded). By a miracle, that happened at Easter and she's now in my local town.
All seems pretty much OK in the new place. Mum has deteriorated mentally a great deal in the last year and a half. Now has to be told how to use the toilet, if I take her, and has to have it explained to her what she is supposed to do with a biscuit

The new CH is more touchy-feely than the others. Carers seem to go in for a lot of hugging and kissing of residents. EG they might go up to one who is sitting in the lounge and say 'hi, how are you x' etc etc, and plant a kiss on their cheek. Didn't happen much at the other home, yet here it happens even with male carers to female residents. Quite a lot, actually. Some of the old ladies seem to love it - esp. from the male carers, which I think has perhaps led to this culture. NB they aren't all at it! My mum's keyworker is a lovely young lad who I don't think would dream of doing it.

But there's another male worker there who, when I'm visiting, will make a point of coming over to us and having a word about mum, usually accompanied by ruffling her hair or giving her a kiss Seems very odd that he almost seems to come and do it for my benefit.

I've watched Mum carefully to see how she reacts to this, and until today I didn't register any disapproval from her. But it made me a bit uncomfortable and today, for once, she actually muttered to me "What a cheek!" after he'd ruffled her hair.

So I am going to do something, as this was HER discomfort/embarrassment rather than mine ...

My feeling is to speak to the manager and mention that I've noticed a touchy-feely culture here that there wasn't at the other home and that Mum obviously isn't that comfortable with it. Please can they keep their paws off her, unless she is upset/distressed in which case a pat on the hand is fine. Then see what the reaction is and leave it a while - see if things change. I really don't want to get into an uncomfortable situation *yet* with the one carer in question. And I don't want to put it as a complaint that they would no doubt be obliged to treat as some massive sexual abuse case. It honestly isn't like that.

But it's not right to keep quiet - is it?

 

[sistermillicent]

I think you would be not only right to say something but neglectful to ignore it. It seems to me that it would be ok to pat the hand or hold a hand, or even a quick arm around the shoulders, but kissing and ruffling hair, yuk, no. There is no need to even put an arm round someone in order to let them know you are there and with them when they need that little bit of extra care or tenderness. I work as nurse with children, which is a minefield as I am sure you know, and would simply not dream of doing this even when they are distressed, so it should not be necessary with the elderly either.

 

[Sue J]

It sound patronizing to ruffle someone's hair, a kiss if it was someone's birthday maybe, depending on the person, but certainly no more than that in my view. Sounds like speaking to the manager should nip it in the bud and hopefully all will be well.

 

[geum123]

When Dad was first at the nursing home, one of the carers plonked a quick kiss on my Dads head and then immediately apologised saying did I mind.
I didn't mind as I knew her, nor did she make a habit of it.
I felt it was just her way of relating to someone she looked after.

However if it were a company, contrived thing I certainly wouldn't have liked that.

Cuddles on the other hand I didn't mind at all.
What better way to show empathy, affection,
and a grand way to communicate to those who are no longer able to do so themselves.
In my opinion it is such a basic thing to do, to comfort someone in distress.
I also saw it as a bonding thing between those who cared and those who were cared for.

I should add cuddles = being a friendly arm around the shoulders. A hug really .

 

[reno]

Yes, it's certainly not black and white, and at the old CH there was even one female carer there who regularly kissed residents who were really quite far gone in dementia. I'm sure there was nothing creepy going on, but at the time it made me feel a bit 'ewww!'. Never saw her kiss my mum. tho.

Mulling this over, and at the moment I'm tending towards talking to the carer himself - aside, out of earshot of anyone - and just saying that mum has commented on it and obviously doesn't feel comfortable with it. Might be better that way - talk to him about it calmly and see how he is - before 'telling on him' ?? I'm a believer in voicing your concerns directly before going over someone's head - tho it's going to be a very tough conversation. If the behaviour then continued, I would certainly go to the manager.

... but is it my responsibility to 'report' his kissing and hugging of other ladies? Those that seem to be enjoying it?? It's in full view of everyone

 

[Dulcie G.]

Showing affection can be a cultural thing.

I am of Italian origin so am quite used to a hug and a kiss but I understand your justified concern. It is disrespectful and any carer should know when a hug or greeting kiss is appreciated and when it might be useful. We didn't like it at all when Mum was called Duls instead of Dulcie or even better Mrs .... But Mum did enjoy having her hand stroked and being listened too. How patronising and rude to ruffle someone's hair!i would definitely be adamant that hand holding is fine and that there isn't usually any need for a kiss. Why not ask "Can I give you a kiss? " if there is a special reason to give one.

... not quite as scandalous as it seems, but I'm finding it a little inappropriate. My mum was in a CH a long drive from me for a year - nice and no problems apart from the distance. I asked, from the outset, that she be moved, if ever possible, to another CH in the same group nearer me (she's LEA funded). By a miracle, that happened at Easter and she's now in my local town.
All seems pretty much OK in the new place. Mum has deteriorated mentally a great deal in the last year and a half. Now has to be told how to use the toilet, if I take her, and has to have it explained to her what she is supposed to do with a biscuit

The new CH is more touchy-feely than the others. Carers seem to go in for a lot of hugging and kissing of residents. EG they might go up to one who is sitting in the lounge and say 'hi, how are you x' etc etc, and plant a kiss on their cheek. Didn't happen much at the other home, yet here it happens even with male carers to female residents. Quite a lot, actually. Some of the old ladies seem to love it - esp. from the male carers, which I think has perhaps led to this culture. NB they aren't all at it! My mum's keyworker is a lovely young lad who I don't think would dream of doing it.

But there's another male worker there who, when I'm visiting, will make a point of coming over to us and having a word about mum, usually accompanied by ruffling her hair or giving her a kiss Seems very odd that he almost seems to come and do it for my benefit.

I've watched Mum carefully to see how she reacts to this, and until today I didn't register any disapproval from her. But it made me a bit uncomfortable and today, for once, she actually muttered to me "What a cheek!" after he'd ruffled her hair.

So I am going to do something, as this was HER discomfort/embarrassment rather than mine ...

My feeling is to speak to the manager and mention that I've noticed a touchy-feely culture here that there wasn't at the other home and that Mum obviously isn't that comfortable with it. Please can they keep their paws off her, unless she is upset/distressed in which case a pat on the hand is fine. Then see what the reaction is and leave it a while - see if things change. I really don't want to get into an uncomfortable situation *yet* with the one carer in question. And I don't want to put it as a complaint that they would no doubt be obliged to treat as some massive sexual abuse case. It honestly isn't like that.

But it's not right to keep quiet - is it?

 

[Sue J]

If it is done in full view of everyone and to everyone I would speak to the manager as you expressed in your first post as it sounds like the 'culture' of the home. Maybe the carer feels he's not behaving like all the other carers if he doesn't do it if it's the culture?

If it is the home's culture and your Mum doesn't like it, then by speaking to the manager it should be communicated to all carers and be part of her careplan. You could discuss it as such with the carer but say you are going to speak with the manager so that others know how your Mum feels and that he is not singled out in any way.

By speaking to the manager it might provoke a staff discussion about it and be beneficial to all especially residents.

 

[seaurchin]

Hello,

My husband is cared for at home and he instigates hugs with his two familiar carers. I don't mind this as we have known them for a few years and it is my husbands who seeks this comfort/reassurance.

However, I wouldn't be happy if it involved someone less familiar and it was the other way around. I would have to raise this as a concern.

Best wishes

Sea Urchin

 

[Saffie]

I would be inclined to mention it to the manager in a general way rather than naming the actual carer. This could be perhaps by asking whether this is usual practice in the home as you haven't seen it elsewhere and your mother isn't that comfortable with it. In this way, it seems less of a complaint and more of a need for clarification on your part. However, you will have made your point.
Personally, I would hate it. A hug - yes, but kissing - no!

 

[LYN T]

A few months ago I was looking for a CH for respite for my Husband. One of the homes I visited had a manager who kissed everyone. It made me feel very uncomfortable.I don't know if she was doing it for my benefit but I followed my instincts and didn't follow the visit up.

Trust your instincts-that's all I can say.

Lyn T

 

[FifiMo]

Carers hugged and kissed my mother in her care home and my perspective was different. To me, and my sisters, she had lost so many of her skills that perhaps these expressions of affection were one of the few things that she understood in a world of confusion. In other countries where I have lived the hugging and kissing is a regular event that took me a while to become used to and it is second nature now. Come to think of it, I was hugged quite a few times too by carers, residents and other relatives. Then again one of the things that I liked about the home was the whole family atmosphere and everyone supporting each other.

We might have thought differently if the affection was inappropriate. They wouldn't have hugged my mother if she didn't feel up to it...she had a decent right hook that she wasn't scared to deploy!

Fiona

 

[garnuft]

I think the hair ruffling is too much, I hate it if anyone does it to me and I know my Mam would too.

Kissing...too much unless the person is distressed and is of the sort that would like it, same with hugging.

One of the saddest things for my son is that he was told he wouldn't be able to have cuddles and hugs by carers if he was upset.
He likes physical contact but if you touch his hair it's like a red-rag to a Bull.

It depends on the person but I know I wouldn't like it and I'm cut from the same cloth as my Mam.

I would mention it to Manager, that your Mum does not like to much physical contact and is uncomfortable with over familiarity.
They(Care staff) are aware of the differences between the people they care for and need to be informed otherwise they will never know.

Hopefully it will make them think more keenly about how they approach residents rather than a one-size-fits-all approach.

 

[reno]

Hmm - thanks for all the thoughts and advice. I was pretty sure people would have a variety of opinions.

There are a few reasons why I might mention it to the bloke himself rather than go to the manager first:

- I've know all sorts of situations in the past made worse by someone 'telling on someone' to their boss rather than giving them the chance to speak about it first. I think the guy has been a bit crass and - as you say - patronising. But maybe he is a good bloke and would be gutted if his manager suddenly hauled him up in front of her on a really sensitive issue when he wasn't expecting it

- I work with children too and know that if a child makes a complaint about abuse/inappropriacy to anyone, even in confidence, that the school/institution has to go into total lockdown and all the child protection procedures drop down indiscriminately. So I would hate to start a relatively laid back conversation with the manager only to be the cause of Social Services descending on all their heads and for the equivalent of the Jimmy Savile enquiry to be opened just because I mention 'kissing' and 'inappropriate' in the same sentence ...

 

[kingmidas1962]

Definitely different strokes for different folks ... I had a wait in a corridor at my dads care home once as one lady resident stopped a carer (also female) for a hug and they were there for ages! I can't say I minded - but that was because the carer and the resident were equally keen.

If someone was very huggy with my dad however, that would be different - mainly because he would probably be horrified!

I think its perfectly acceptable to mention in a general (or even a specific) way that you've seen very tactile behaviour and your mum is uncomfortable with it.

 

[CollegeGirl]

Reno, my first instinct before reading any of the other replies was for you to have a quiet word with the chap himself, in order to give him a chance to put things right by altering his behaviour to suit the different residents.

Personally I wouldn't like my hair ruffled (don't touch the hair!) and would not want to be kissed too often by anyone other than my family and friends, but for me the touch of another human is very important and I wouldn't like to be deprived of that if and when my loved ones weren't around, so a reassuring hug, arm around the shoulders, a stroking or patting of my hand or arm would be perfectly acceptable and even desirable.

I think the carers' behaviour should be tailored to each individual resident. It shouldn't be too hard to judge those who like it and those who object; should it?

 

[betsie]

When my mum left gerriatric nursing she worked in a local care home. I remember one day I was with her having a cup of tea at a local shopping centre when one of the residents came in with her daughter (who had taken her out on a shopping trip). My mum went over and said hello and had a quick chat then gave the old lady a kiss on the head and held her hand. I remember thinking at the time how comforting it must have been for her daughter to see that someone loving and caring was looking after her mum.
I have always remembered it as when I was young I used to resent my mum always working but when I saw her with the elderly lady it made sense and made me realize how much her vocation as a nurse meant to her and how caring and loving she was to her patients.
I wish there were more people like my mum working in the proffession now.

 

[Pollyanna]

I witnessed a lot of affection within the care home, but none of it felt inappropriate because the carers seemed to understand the residents.

I remember on one occasion a lady who had zoned out for quite a long time. The carer used affection to bring her back, lots of hugs and kisses until she was back in the room. It was completely appropriate for that resident and that moment.

 

[sistermillicent]

If physical contact is appropriate no one feels uncomfortable witnessing it. if you feel uncomfortable when you see it happening trust the instincts, it is most likely not right. I have given hugs in response to people with dementia who have come up to me in the care home and put their arms round me. But i have never instigated it.

 

[Misprint]

I was walking with my sister around the garden when a male carer was walking another resident towards us. We stopped when we met and my sister said hello to the carer but not to the other resident. When we went to walk on she said 'aren't you going to give me a kiss'. The carer then gave her a kiss on the cheek and we walked on. I thnk this is because we have always kissed goodbye in my family. I can always remember my father saying if anything happened to him he wanted to know that the last thing he did was kiss his family goodbye. I did not feel uncomfortable but thought the carer did, however he handled the situation well because my sister would have been very upset if he had refused.

Pauline

 

[geum123]

Reno,
If your Mum is uncomfortable with it, then it is not appropriate for her,
and I would mention it.