So bizarre !

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,616
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USA
Ann, I am just catching up, and have a lot more that I want to write, but when I read about MIL coming home, I not only spit out my tea, but also yelled a whole lot of unrepeatable things at the computer (as though it were the hospital staff, daft, I know) and generally terrified my cats. And the description of what you endured at the hospital was equally horrifying, and again, my reaction is not fit for print, even on the Internet. I hope you can call your GP for some proper painkillers and get some sleep. Oh, wait, I just read Slugsta's post. I always forget that you can buy codeine over the counter in the UK. Go for it!

I can't begin to untangle the ins and outs of the system but I can tell you that I would refuse MIL's discharge, refuse to have her home, and if she were brought to the house, would refuse to do anything. In fact, if she were discharged and brought to the house, as you say, I probably would not be there. This has gone far enough.

I don't know what you need to do, or what could possibly help, but I think I speak for everyone here when I say I am firmly in your corner. If I didn't live so bl00dy far away, I would come and get you and tuck you up in my spare room (albeit you'd likely have to share with a shell-shocked cat who witnessed my reaction to your post).

I am so sorry and hope a way forward can be found, for all your sakes, that preserves everyone's health and safety.

Much support and many kind thoughts for you, Ann.
 
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IzzyJ

Registered User
Aug 23, 2015
86
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Cotswolds
Only just got back on line and read what has been happening. Just as everyone else has said, this is just dreadful, the complete lack of care and basic medical humanity in doing your procedure without anaesthetic. I could cry and scream on your behalf Ann. Please, please stick to your guns and refuse to take MiL back, you are right, you know full well nothing has been sorted with her meds. You CANNOT cope with her - you have written several times how she deliberately plays you up and hurts you on purpose when you are ill or injured. I sympathise with OH for being put on the spot, but the answer is still no, there is nobody at home for her to come to. Sending you all my sympathy and support. Xx
 

dottyd

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
1,063
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n.e.
You need to show your husband these posts

Hope you are not in pain tonight.

I've never read anything so sad on here as this story.

It beggars belief.

I feel hurt and angry on your behalf.

When you feel much better I hope you rip this inadequate system apart !
 

Ann Mac

Registered User
Oct 17, 2013
3,693
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Morning everyone,

JM, I really feel for you hun, but I do think you are being too hard on yourself :( Its as Red says, your name on here is very appropriate because you are juggling so much at the moment. I'm glad the sale is going through on the house, and have fingers and toes crossed that once its done, it will create a little bit of breathing space for you and take off some of the pressure xxxxx

I took on board the comments about mobility and asked OH what has been said about it in terms of was it covered when her discharge was discussed. And no, it wasn't. I've made it clear that has to be looked at. But whether it is or it isn't sorted properly, Lemony's advice about refusing to lift or physically help will be followed to the letter.

Yep - I agree that its the section 2 coming to an end that has a part in this. The ward has - from what I have been told - a large number of patients who are waiting for EMI Nursing placements to be found, and who have been there for a long time. One trainee nurse who has been training both here and in the adjoining county, told me that in one small area where she worked, there were over 60 dementia patients waiting for permenant placements in EMI Nursing homes - and approximately only 10 such beds allocated for that need in homes in the whole of the county involved. You can see why there is such pressure to discharge. I half expected the discharge to take place just as the section was up, and was prepared for that, until she got the chest infection - I assumed that would change things, as obviously the 8 days on medical cut into the time they told us it would take for the assessment and treatment to take place. I think its thrown the hospital for a loop and that they have quite possibly got someone else booked for that bed and that they are under pressure to make it available. That's pretty much what happened with Mil, remember - bed not available on the agreed date due to a discharge not taking place when it was expected.

Everything is again up in the air here, however. Yesterday morning, I ignored several calls from a 'withheld' number, but answered one that displayed a local number, assuming it was one of daughters mates ringing. Nope - hospital. Mil had run out of clean clothes. Told them I would pass the message on to OH, explained again that I was recovering from a medical procedure, and that OH would be dealing solely with them over the weekend to give me chance to get better, but that he was now in work for the next 3 days. I felt extremely guilty - in the midst of all this, I can't forget that none of this is Mil's fault - but stuck to my guns and simply passed the info onto OH.

Later that day, another call again from a local number, and again I fell for it - perhaps just as well, as it was to tell me that they had taken bloods from Mil (though come to think of it, they never said why?) and that the results again showed 'markers' indicating an infection. She was being transferred over to A&E again, for medical assessment and treatment. Oddly out of context, the nurse speaking also informed me that staff from DC had been in to 'assess' Mil and had said that they currently have a spare bed there - I should have followed that up straight away, but it was 'slipped in' amidst the news that Mil was poorly again, and I didn't :( Anyway, I asked was it her chest? A UTI? They didn't know - just there were 'strong markers' in the bloood results. This was at about 5pm. I asked them to keep me informed.

Meanwhile, I was a lot better as the day had gone on - not completely pain free but it certainly improved and I had decided that I would be OK to pick up oldest from train station (she has come down for the weekend) at 7-ish. As the hospital is just a tiny detour, I asked son to come with me, stopped at the hospital and sent him in to drop off a bag of clean clothes - no way was I walking through the door and getting dragged or pressured into anything, I felt that this was a good solution to the laundry issue at least because the Guilt Monster had been playing hell with me over her not having clean clothes. Son said that they told him Mil was still waiting for transport over to the main part of the hospital and the A&E department.

No news at all last night, so first thing this morning, we rang them. Mil has spent the night in A&E, she is on a drip, they are waiting for a bed and no - they still don't know what the infection is.

Quite what all this means, I don't know - if she is ill enough to warrent another stay of several days on a medical ward, then the section will expire on Tuesday and that puts them in a quandary. She may be too ill to ask to leave - which is what happened when she had the chest infection, she didn't ask once whilst she was on the medical ward - in which case they may just keep her there for a few days and she will come home then (maybe even by Monday, I guess?) - but if she does ask to go, what are they going to do? Can they apply another section2? Or will it have to be DOL's or section 3? Its also occured to me that if the EMH ward were under pressure to admit another patient, then this infection is very handy for them, and it could be something incredibly minor with the idea being that they have 'passed the buck' to medical. However, if there is a problem, what are they going to do when the section runs out and they are under no obligation to provide the one to one care from a member of their own staff, which is policy while she is under the section? Take away the one to one, and even if Mil is too poorly to run true to form, I still think that medical would struggle with dealing with a dementia patient and there may well be strong objections from them. I am sure as hell not going in and sitting with her all day.

This throws up so many 'what if's' , just no idea what will happen now, at all.
 

dottyd

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
1,063
0
n.e.
Pleased you are feeling much better Anne.

From your post it sounds like you are contemplating having mil home again? Is that right?

I do admire for laying your life on the line like that. You are one very strong lady.

I was reading your blog last night. Is she still a big size 18-20 lady or was that just in the beginning. I'm just wondering how you are going to physically get her upstairs with your weak and sore hip.

It's so sad that she doesn't know or appreciate how much you are doing for her.

Hope you have a good day today and can take it easy.
 

Onlyme

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
4,992
0
UK
Call me cynical but see my post of 8 PM. I knew they would move her.:mad:

I have serious concerns about the stairs. Either you or anyone is at extreme danger using stairs with someone with dementia.

Glad you ar feeling a bit better Ann but put yourself back on bed rest, you need it.
 
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cragmaid

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
7,936
0
North East England
As long as you and OH refuse to have MIL back to live in your home....and, after all this is your home and not, legally, MIL's property, it will be up to the NHS/LA to continue to house MIL.
Sadly, as long as you are prepared to go into the ward and pick up the slack, the medical ward is not getting a true picture.
It might be worth giving DC a ring to ask about the supposed vacancy. If, on assessment, they were prepared to take MIL, you could place her there and give yourselves time to decide if permanent care is the way forward. She may settle somewhere she is familiar, and the ward say she is well enough to be discharged into someone's care.

You and OH have had a bit of a rough ride lately. You do need time to take stock and rebuild your defences. Please do not let the guilt monsters win.x.x.
 

Onlyme

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
4,992
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UK
Also if MIL is in respite then if she kicks off they will ring to get help. If she needs sectioning again they won't be fobbed off, she will be. I fear that if she does come home you will be left with a physically disabled MIL trapped upstairs screaming fit to bust when not asleep. While that is eventually in the future it's best that happens elsewhere.

I said ages ago that one day she would wake up immobile and I think that is not far away.

Have they checked that she doesn't have pneumonia in the base of her lungs? They should X-ray her and get a consultant to check them as it's easy to miss.
 
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dottyd

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
1,063
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n.e.
I hate to say this, have said it before and will say it again when my beloved mum got pneumonia 4 years ago I prayed that she would go quietly and peacefully in her sleep while she still knew who everyone was instead of the sheer misery and degradation her life has become..as I knew it would.
And at that point I had no idea how bad it was going to get and we are still in that miserable, endless downward spiral.

There's no joy in my mother. This horrible disease sucked it out of her years ago.
 

Onlyme

Registered User
Apr 5, 2010
4,992
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UK
Dottyd I know how you feel. All I wanted was for Mum to slip away pain free which wasn't the case. She did die of pneumonia in the end but they didn't get end of life drugs soon enough.
 

LadyA

Registered User
Oct 19, 2009
13,730
0
Ireland
Someone mentioned on another thread about dementia patients being discharged from NHS hospitals at the moment. So Maureen could be right - MIL has been moved to the hospital, who will then discharge her if she is not "ill" medically. You stand your ground Ann. Just picture in your mind, all of us standing there with you, with our furious faces on, shaking our fists at them! :D
 

LYN T

Registered User
Aug 30, 2012
6,958
0
Brixham Devon
They have been using the DOLS instead of Section 3 but it would take time and is not as instant as Section 3.

An Emergency DOLS can be applied which lasts up to 7 days. However, at the same time a regular DOLS has to be applied for.

Ann-a terrible situation for all of you. I feel so cross that little has been achieved in as much as MIL should have been observed by the MHU for the full 28 days; I know it's not their fault that MIL has been physically unwell, but neither is it yours. When Pete was released from a section 2 on one occasion I was promised the Earth in help when he was released. It took 5 months before I was offered Daycare so please be aware of any promises of help-they will probably be empty ones. If MIL goes back to DC will they be able to deal with her? If she can't go there you could end up doing even more hours:(

I feel 24/7 caring is all becoming too much for you and your family-it probably has been for some time.

Love

Lyn T XX
 

Batsue

Registered User
Nov 4, 2014
4,893
0
Scotland
I can't forget that none of this is Mil's fault - but stuck to my guns and simply passed the info onto OH.

It may not be Mil's fault but neither is it yours.

Glad to hear that you are not in so much pain, stay strong and stand your ground xx.
 

Ann Mac

Registered User
Oct 17, 2013
3,693
0
I bet they have moved her and lifted the Section.

Got it in one.

Just had a phone call from a very confused staff nurse on the MAU. Mil is there without any support. It's looking like a chest infection again. She is insisting that she does not live at the address given on her records, she is giving her old address. I explained to the staff that she has dementia and was under a section 2, and was told that it had been lifted. (checked with OH, he was told it would be lifted for her to come home - he assumed from Monday). I was asked about did she smoke ( so she is asking for ciggies, by the sound of it) and then asked about her mobility. I explained that I couldn't answer the last query, explained what had happened and that we didn't know if any sort of physio/OT assessment had been done ready for discharge, explained what had happened with me and that stupid injection, explained she was NOT safe to be left unattended, that she would wander, that she is subject to delusions, paranoia and occasional hallucinations and that neither OH or I knew to what extent the stay on the EMH unit had helped or altered that situation. I apologised profusely and said that no, I could not come in to see her. She said she understood.

I have no idea what happens now. Legally, as I understand it, she is technically allowed to discharge herself if she isn't sectioned. Can they just bring her home if she demands, without the section - even if she is ill with her chest again? She has no money, and God only knows where all her clothes, frame and wheelchair are.

It seems like the EMH unit have just passed the buck and washed their hands of her. I can't believe that they have just dumped a vulnerable person in this manner :(
 

2jays

Registered User
Jun 4, 2010
11,598
0
West Midlands
Stepping back. It's so painful isn't it
Wrenches all emotions you didn't even know you had.....

Glad to hear you are continuing to be strong and not visit. This may become more of a nightmare merry go round, but eventually things will get sorted, so long as you keep well stepped back.

Hugs xxx
 

Ann Mac

Registered User
Oct 17, 2013
3,693
0
Stepping back. It's so painful isn't it
Wrenches all emotions you didn't even know you had.....

Glad to hear you are continuing to be strong and not visit. This may become more of a nightmare merry go round, but eventually things will get sorted, so long as you keep well stepped back.

Hugs xxx

I'm absolutely wracked with guilt. That poor, poor woman - I can't begin to imagine the confusion Mil is feeling - and I feel so sorry for the staff on MAU, who have also been duped and dumped upon.

I will not have her back home till the mobilty is addressed, she is infection free and I am fit. I can't. But what if she wanders or falls, or is otherwise hurt through lack of the necessary supervision?

I really can't believe they would do this to her - or us :(
 

annebythesea

Registered User
Ann, you know that any blame it does not apply to you so there is absolutely no reason for the guilt, however understandable. By standing your ground you are forcing the medics to confront their duty to mil. If I were Mr Mac, I would be on to PALS, the MP and the newspapers. I would think that they were completely trying it on with suggesting a discharge and you have called their bluff so this is the alternative they have come up with.
To put the loss of mobility into perspective, my mil (85, no dementia) was in hospital last year for less than 2 weeks. Due to pulmonary embolisms for several days she was not even allowed to walk to the loo in case the clots shifted. She went from doing an hour's walk on a shingle beach several times a week to not being able to walk to the end of the road. A year later she can do that but cannot walk or stay standing for more than half an hour without needing a good rest and we cannot even take her for a walk around a garden now. So it is not surprising that your mil has gone down in her abilities. She should at the very least once she is infection free be going into residential care for rehabilitation. I do so hope that the medical unit she is now on raise merry hell about the way she has been treated so far.
It would be interesting to see her medical records for this period and see what combinations of medication have been tried - it does not seem as though it can be many given how ill she has been.
Please rest up and spend time with your family this weekend. I am sure they are supporting you and will tell you what to do with the guilt monster.
 

Moonflower

Registered User
Mar 28, 2012
773
0
I am so sorry Ann, the way you and MiL have been treated is unforgivable.
Time I think for OH to complain loudly to the EMH unit, MP, PALs, local newspaper, CPN about how a vulnerable elderly lady was just dumped on a medical ward without even appropriate information on her presentation, never mind appropriate medication, assessment and support.
 

LadyA

Registered User
Oct 19, 2009
13,730
0
Ireland
Good grief!!
Can you get your MP, and/or local radio, newspapers, Facebook etc? Explain what's happened with all this and the way you were deceived.
 

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