I bet if MiL had to remain on the ward until an EMI nursing bed could be found one would pop up quickly enough. If she is home with you it will take months, because you are dealing with it so they don't have to. Makes me so angry
So bizarre !
- Thread starter Ann Mac
- Start date
Had to laugh, Red, at the idea of Pom poms and cheerleading! I'll send oldest step grand dau to do it, she's good at that type of thing! Not me in my oversize arthritic body. But you made me laugh, cos nothing else on this thread has done that this morning! Made me mad, more like!
Ann, as I looked after OH I noticed that my arthritis was getting worse as he got worse. When he went into care, I didn't feel any better. I still don't feel any better. Not even in NZ, though I did last year at Launde. I think cos I could do things at my pace. But even now, especially this am, I certainly am not right and I'm having problems coming to terms with that. You don't want/need to be in my position. You already have problems. They will get worse if mil comes home. Line in the sand, your health is important. Don't ruin it any more. Let them find a suitable home for mil as you are not caring for her any more. As has been stated here many times, there is no obligation to care. We all do it, for various reasons, but we don't have too. Carers health breakdown is one very, very good reason not to care any longer.
You may disagree, but like Red, I'm used to that, but please consider carefully.
Ann, as I looked after OH I noticed that my arthritis was getting worse as he got worse. When he went into care, I didn't feel any better. I still don't feel any better. Not even in NZ, though I did last year at Launde. I think cos I could do things at my pace. But even now, especially this am, I certainly am not right and I'm having problems coming to terms with that. You don't want/need to be in my position. You already have problems. They will get worse if mil comes home. Line in the sand, your health is important. Don't ruin it any more. Let them find a suitable home for mil as you are not caring for her any more. As has been stated here many times, there is no obligation to care. We all do it, for various reasons, but we don't have too. Carers health breakdown is one very, very good reason not to care any longer.
You may disagree, but like Red, I'm used to that, but please consider carefully.
Oh Ann
I'm so sad that this situation has come to this..... An Even worse nightmare
You have done absolutely Nothing wrong by telling people how it is, as it is for you. How you feel and what you feel about others. If it needed anger to do it, then anger was needed.
My thoughts:
It's what you do after the anger, that's really important. Stick to your guns about not having mil back home. It's destroying your family, and all your immediate family are a huge important part of your future, despite how you may feel right now....
This is the one line in the sand that others can't/shouldn't cause you to step over/blur the edges..... It's your line.
If they haven't found their own line in the sand, that's not your problem. Don't make it your problem, it's theirs....
You are all are having a hugely stressful time, without including mil into the mix.... You all will react in different ways. some of them very hurtful, but the situation you are in isn't the time to make emotional decisions, just level headed, logical ones, and right now, to me, the logical decision is to move mil to long term respite, until you both can talk about the realities of what the future holds.
It may be that she comes home. It may be that she stays where she is. That decision is not for now. You must both lick your wounds and recover as best you can from the stresses of day to day life (old job, new job, painful treatment, daughters school etc etc) without the added stress of mil in the house too.
Just my thoughts
Huge squishy hugs for you all xxxx
I'm so sad that this situation has come to this..... An Even worse nightmare
You have done absolutely Nothing wrong by telling people how it is, as it is for you. How you feel and what you feel about others. If it needed anger to do it, then anger was needed.
My thoughts:
It's what you do after the anger, that's really important. Stick to your guns about not having mil back home. It's destroying your family, and all your immediate family are a huge important part of your future, despite how you may feel right now....
This is the one line in the sand that others can't/shouldn't cause you to step over/blur the edges..... It's your line.
If they haven't found their own line in the sand, that's not your problem. Don't make it your problem, it's theirs....
You are all are having a hugely stressful time, without including mil into the mix.... You all will react in different ways. some of them very hurtful, but the situation you are in isn't the time to make emotional decisions, just level headed, logical ones, and right now, to me, the logical decision is to move mil to long term respite, until you both can talk about the realities of what the future holds.
It may be that she comes home. It may be that she stays where she is. That decision is not for now. You must both lick your wounds and recover as best you can from the stresses of day to day life (old job, new job, painful treatment, daughters school etc etc) without the added stress of mil in the house too.
Just my thoughts
Huge squishy hugs for you all xxxx
(((Ann)))
What I'm afraid for, for you all, is that MiL will be delivered to you on Monday (hopefully not before!) much worse due to everything that's been happening. Her meds haven't been sorted out so there's no point in looking in that direction for improvement, while she won't remember the past few days she'll almost certainly have an 'emotional memory' that something did happen to her and it was terrible, and of course her mobility is now an even bigger issue than before. And even if OH's shifts are going to be a bit better going forward, it sounds like he'll still be working very long hours... which means that the lion's share of caring in this increasingly difficult situation is still down to you, rain or shine, good health or bad.
So, like some others, I'm going to be blunt and say that I don't think you should have MiL back. If a team can't cope with her then you can't be expected to either. Don't expect that of yourself and don't let others expect that of you. She needs specialist care, it's that simple.
You've seen yourself how little of a safety net is provided to carers in your shoes. Day care may well say enough is enough if she proves even more demanding and your chances of getting respite are not great, so you're running on empty, with no one to catch any of you if you fall.
So I really feel that it's time to look at the next phase and that's MiL having professionals look after her. They won't do as great a job as you have been doing and she will most definitely not be happy wherever she is placed but she's not happy at day care and she's so often not happy at home with you either. Sad as it is, she's little chance of finding happiness now... You, however, have your health, family life, future AND happiness to think about. Please, please, please don't drive yourself into the ground. Your MiL, when she was well, would not want that for you and the rest of the Mac family. She'd want you to be an advocate for her and for all of you to visit her as often as possible... and that's it. That's what I really believe because that's what I would wish for in her shoes.
Please know that all the above is said with love. xxxx
What I'm afraid for, for you all, is that MiL will be delivered to you on Monday (hopefully not before!) much worse due to everything that's been happening. Her meds haven't been sorted out so there's no point in looking in that direction for improvement, while she won't remember the past few days she'll almost certainly have an 'emotional memory' that something did happen to her and it was terrible, and of course her mobility is now an even bigger issue than before. And even if OH's shifts are going to be a bit better going forward, it sounds like he'll still be working very long hours... which means that the lion's share of caring in this increasingly difficult situation is still down to you, rain or shine, good health or bad.
So, like some others, I'm going to be blunt and say that I don't think you should have MiL back. If a team can't cope with her then you can't be expected to either. Don't expect that of yourself and don't let others expect that of you. She needs specialist care, it's that simple.
You've seen yourself how little of a safety net is provided to carers in your shoes. Day care may well say enough is enough if she proves even more demanding and your chances of getting respite are not great, so you're running on empty, with no one to catch any of you if you fall.
So I really feel that it's time to look at the next phase and that's MiL having professionals look after her. They won't do as great a job as you have been doing and she will most definitely not be happy wherever she is placed but she's not happy at day care and she's so often not happy at home with you either. Sad as it is, she's little chance of finding happiness now... You, however, have your health, family life, future AND happiness to think about. Please, please, please don't drive yourself into the ground. Your MiL, when she was well, would not want that for you and the rest of the Mac family. She'd want you to be an advocate for her and for all of you to visit her as often as possible... and that's it. That's what I really believe because that's what I would wish for in her shoes.
Please know that all the above is said with love. xxxx
Well got some good news for the bizarrites, my mum's house looks like it has finally sold.
I sent a very blunt email (capital letters what the hell is going on its ridiculous type) to chocolate teapot bro last Friday and lo and behold got an email yesterday (asked for an update by Monday - knew he wouldn't update by deadline) to say almost there, last minute price negotiation (I expected this as stamp duty change affects buyer). Email this morning to advise exchange is today and completion date 7th June.
I should feel jumping up and down happy but don't. pi**ed off as I am ill and not able to cycle, didn't cycle last Friday as had row with OH and didn't sleep, which may have made me ill now. Row with OH was because I haven't got on top of paperwork, ours or mum's. Mum's is behind as I had to deal with stuff for house etc that brother should have done, ours is behind because I've dealt with mum's stuff, and it was behind anyway for other 'emotional' reasons.
It is also the sale of my childhood home, which going back to stirred up a lot of negative misery from childhood due to mum's hoarding/inability to have house in a fit state to have friends round/old parents not being in touch with the 80s (I went to uni knowing I was never going back home).
Also back to feeling so cross with brother for deciding he was too injured to clear house in 2014 (but could race - I didn't race as I was clearing house), telling ward sister mum 'only had some memory problems' which I'm convinced led to her inappropriate discharge from hospital in Jan 15 and wrote off another 2 or 3 months of my life sorting the mess out, and just being a lazy non communicating **** over the house sale. OH says I am like an elephant that never forgets going on about the past.
Feel like I'm having my own pity party, not commented on this thread much this week either as not felt up to it.
Dau had a terrible race on Sun, she has ongoing back and fatigue issues from winter virus, and has requested she doesn't race or 'train' for next month. She will still ride her bike as often, so effectively training, just more of a preseason base type of riding. I feel like we've made mistakes as parents, and let her down and wonder where we went wrong. Just have to wait and see what happens.
House still in chaos with part finished bathroom and bits of Big Red which still needs finishing in hall and living room. Little blue VW needs sorting to sell in Spring before summer. Garden in chaos as I'm meant to be trying to move forward on paperwork so sit looking at it, and don't do paperwork or garden.
Slugsta - sounds like your mum enjoyed yourself on trip out, even if she missed daycare. Trouble is one day a week is not that often in terms of establishing a routine for a PWD. Hope your letter to care company has some positive results. Sometimes we just have to step back and wait until things get to a point where we can do something. I hadn't realised the full extent of mum's problems (she lived 200 miles away) but knew there were issues and when discussing it with a neighbour he had said a crisis would come and I would sort it then. He was right. Don't waste time worrying about what you can't fix. (Easy to say, not easy to do).
Red - I don't like hearing about muscle loss, was reading an article about female cycling and muscle loss with menopause this week, but only got so far, not sure I want to know what is coming, but know it could arrive any minute (I'm 48). Head a bit in the sand.
Ann - you may not care at the moment, but sounds positive that Old Red only has a couple of minors for MOT, although I suspect like my OH, that means OH can bury his head in the sand fixing them. Job being an LA transfer is positive as service years and holidays and pension entitlement also transfer.
Amy - if I didn't say earlier (due to pity party) thanks for update on FIL.
I sent a very blunt email (capital letters what the hell is going on its ridiculous type) to chocolate teapot bro last Friday and lo and behold got an email yesterday (asked for an update by Monday - knew he wouldn't update by deadline) to say almost there, last minute price negotiation (I expected this as stamp duty change affects buyer). Email this morning to advise exchange is today and completion date 7th June.
I should feel jumping up and down happy but don't. pi**ed off as I am ill and not able to cycle, didn't cycle last Friday as had row with OH and didn't sleep, which may have made me ill now. Row with OH was because I haven't got on top of paperwork, ours or mum's. Mum's is behind as I had to deal with stuff for house etc that brother should have done, ours is behind because I've dealt with mum's stuff, and it was behind anyway for other 'emotional' reasons.
It is also the sale of my childhood home, which going back to stirred up a lot of negative misery from childhood due to mum's hoarding/inability to have house in a fit state to have friends round/old parents not being in touch with the 80s (I went to uni knowing I was never going back home).
Also back to feeling so cross with brother for deciding he was too injured to clear house in 2014 (but could race - I didn't race as I was clearing house), telling ward sister mum 'only had some memory problems' which I'm convinced led to her inappropriate discharge from hospital in Jan 15 and wrote off another 2 or 3 months of my life sorting the mess out, and just being a lazy non communicating **** over the house sale. OH says I am like an elephant that never forgets going on about the past.
Feel like I'm having my own pity party, not commented on this thread much this week either as not felt up to it.
Dau had a terrible race on Sun, she has ongoing back and fatigue issues from winter virus, and has requested she doesn't race or 'train' for next month. She will still ride her bike as often, so effectively training, just more of a preseason base type of riding. I feel like we've made mistakes as parents, and let her down and wonder where we went wrong. Just have to wait and see what happens.
House still in chaos with part finished bathroom and bits of Big Red which still needs finishing in hall and living room. Little blue VW needs sorting to sell in Spring before summer. Garden in chaos as I'm meant to be trying to move forward on paperwork so sit looking at it, and don't do paperwork or garden.
Slugsta - sounds like your mum enjoyed yourself on trip out, even if she missed daycare. Trouble is one day a week is not that often in terms of establishing a routine for a PWD. Hope your letter to care company has some positive results. Sometimes we just have to step back and wait until things get to a point where we can do something. I hadn't realised the full extent of mum's problems (she lived 200 miles away) but knew there were issues and when discussing it with a neighbour he had said a crisis would come and I would sort it then. He was right. Don't waste time worrying about what you can't fix. (Easy to say, not easy to do).
Red - I don't like hearing about muscle loss, was reading an article about female cycling and muscle loss with menopause this week, but only got so far, not sure I want to know what is coming, but know it could arrive any minute (I'm 48). Head a bit in the sand.
Ann - you may not care at the moment, but sounds positive that Old Red only has a couple of minors for MOT, although I suspect like my OH, that means OH can bury his head in the sand fixing them. Job being an LA transfer is positive as service years and holidays and pension entitlement also transfer.
Amy - if I didn't say earlier (due to pity party) thanks for update on FIL.
Aw JM -- don't be so hard on yourself -- you've got a load of balls in the air and the juggling is bound to leave you stressed and fed up. Fingers crossed for house sale. Is there something nice you can factor into your day, even if it's something as daft as a glass of Prosecco this evening or watching a favourite film? Maybe instead of sitting down to tackle all the paperwork, just tell yourself you'll do an hour on hers and an hour on yours each day?? --& the garden isn't important -- if you weed it, they will grow back.
Oh , Goodness me AnnM, I've just been catching up.
I hope you are coping with the pain from your procedure, if not you could ask the GP to send a prescription
to your pharmacy , Id hate to think you have to suffer over the weekend.
I did a sharp intake of breath when you said MiL was coming home. WHAT ?? !!!
Can Mr Mac take some emergency 'carers sick leave' and look after her for a week?
When I was told my husband was coming home 'tomorrow'... I said No , he's not...
Then I gave them a list of things I wanted 'in place' before I even considered him coming home.
Physio told me that if I just had him home, then nothing would be done to help up him,
as after he leaves hospital, it is the responsibility of SS to take care of him/us.
I think you need to tell the EMI that you would like a home assessment before you accept MiL back into your home 24/7.
From what you have written, I think I had my husbands OT saying similar things to me...
They expected to keep my husband (with mid stages VaD) entertained 24 hours a day.
I was told that we should be living our lives as if everything was 'normal' ... and should be eating out, going to the cinema, shopping, drives, weekends away... for as long as possible.
OT suggested husband cooks some of our meals, as husband said he missed cooking !! (confabulation).
OT even arranged for my husband to do a computer course , and when when she suggested one, said he said yes.
Husband (bless him) couldn't even turn on our computer, but OT thought she was being helpful ....
OT (after his assessment), was full of ideas.... Ideas that involved me being available 36 hours day !
Please AnnM, if you can refuse to have MiL home, at least for another week.
Then say you want a home assessment , firstly with physio and OT (NOT MiL) , Then say you need MiL to VISIT with OT and physio.... so they can see her in her own environment....
Then you can make a decision about when / if she comes home.
I hope you are coping with the pain from your procedure, if not you could ask the GP to send a prescription
to your pharmacy , Id hate to think you have to suffer over the weekend.
I did a sharp intake of breath when you said MiL was coming home. WHAT ?? !!!
Can Mr Mac take some emergency 'carers sick leave' and look after her for a week?
When I was told my husband was coming home 'tomorrow'... I said No , he's not...
Then I gave them a list of things I wanted 'in place' before I even considered him coming home.
Physio told me that if I just had him home, then nothing would be done to help up him,
as after he leaves hospital, it is the responsibility of SS to take care of him/us.
I think you need to tell the EMI that you would like a home assessment before you accept MiL back into your home 24/7.
From what you have written, I think I had my husbands OT saying similar things to me...
They expected to keep my husband (with mid stages VaD) entertained 24 hours a day.
I was told that we should be living our lives as if everything was 'normal' ... and should be eating out, going to the cinema, shopping, drives, weekends away... for as long as possible.
OT suggested husband cooks some of our meals, as husband said he missed cooking !! (confabulation).
OT even arranged for my husband to do a computer course , and when when she suggested one, said he said yes.
Husband (bless him) couldn't even turn on our computer, but OT thought she was being helpful ....
OT (after his assessment), was full of ideas.... Ideas that involved me being available 36 hours day !
Please AnnM, if you can refuse to have MiL home, at least for another week.
Then say you want a home assessment , firstly with physio and OT (NOT MiL) , Then say you need MiL to VISIT with OT and physio.... so they can see her in her own environment....
Then you can make a decision about when / if she comes home.
Ann, it is absolutely disgusting the way you have been treated, I am shocked that you were not given a local anaesthetic for the injection.
Stand firm and do not allow Mil to come home on Monday, they cannot possibly have sorted out he medication.
Thinking of you and hoping things improve xxx.
Stand firm and do not allow Mil to come home on Monday, they cannot possibly have sorted out he medication.
Thinking of you and hoping things improve xxx.
JM, I would not worry too much, I went through the menopause at 49, I am now 56 and there is no apparent change to my muscles, in fact after moving about 60 tonnes of rock, gravel and soil they seem to be stronger than ever.
I can't tell you what I said when I heard they would be returning Anne's MIL but the air has a decided blue hue to it.
I'm afraid I would have crawled if necessary to my Dr and vented. At that point I'm 100% sure you would have been diagnosed with carers breakdown.
If/when MIL comes back then don't help her move her from the transport, let them do it. If she can't get up the step into the house tell them to take her back. If she does get home and falls or can't get out of bed during the next 24 hours call the Dr/paramedics. Get her moved back to hospital and refuse to get her home. This will be a failed discharge and really stuffs up their figures. They pull out all the stops to resolve these issues.
Warn DH that you will not have her home if she is any worse than when she left. You can not cope with increased physical needs.
I am so absolutely convinced the 28 days is coming into play I actually went back to your posts to check her date and yes, it's 16/4/16. I am so bloody angry I could deck someone for you. I think they took her in on the understand internally that they could fix her in 2 weeks. Her infection messed up their figures and they panicked.
I am glad your DH realised that he had messed up big time and tried to sort it but he does deserve the double barrelled shot gun you gave him.
Loads of sympathy. What an absolute nightmare.
I'm afraid I would have crawled if necessary to my Dr and vented. At that point I'm 100% sure you would have been diagnosed with carers breakdown.
If/when MIL comes back then don't help her move her from the transport, let them do it. If she can't get up the step into the house tell them to take her back. If she does get home and falls or can't get out of bed during the next 24 hours call the Dr/paramedics. Get her moved back to hospital and refuse to get her home. This will be a failed discharge and really stuffs up their figures. They pull out all the stops to resolve these issues.
Warn DH that you will not have her home if she is any worse than when she left. You can not cope with increased physical needs.
I am so absolutely convinced the 28 days is coming into play I actually went back to your posts to check her date and yes, it's 16/4/16. I am so bloody angry I could deck someone for you. I think they took her in on the understand internally that they could fix her in 2 weeks. Her infection messed up their figures and they panicked.
I am glad your DH realised that he had messed up big time and tried to sort it but he does deserve the double barrelled shot gun you gave him.
Loads of sympathy. What an absolute nightmare.
If Ann refuses to have her home, they will have to find a nursing EMI home. Ann can't be forced to care for her. If finding a home would take time, that gives Ann longer to rest, and the hospital longer to sort out medication - which I don't believe has been done properly.
If Ann takes her home and then can't cope, they will then say "oh dear, no EMI residential beds available" and it will be back to being Ann's problem.
If Ann takes her home and then can't cope, they will then say "oh dear, no EMI residential beds available" and it will be back to being Ann's problem.
Lift the section? Yes. It would be difficult but as long as they can get her to agree to stay 'one more night' then she would be staying voluntarily. To be honest I can see there will some smoke and mirrors.
If it were me I would be out when they tried to return MIL home. I would refuse to have her back as NOTHING has changed mental health wise but now physical ability has deteriorated. How is she going to get upstairs? Next they will say she can live in the dining room.
If it were me I would be out when they tried to return MIL home. I would refuse to have her back as NOTHING has changed mental health wise but now physical ability has deteriorated. How is she going to get upstairs? Next they will say she can live in the dining room.
I hadn't counted back but I'd sort of been counting as we went along, and I was thinking that the stay in the main hospital was pushing towards the 28 days, suspect they were wanting her back in EMH because of that but oxygen tube prevented it.
They do know when the 28 days are up in terms of chucking them out I think.
Doesn't section 2 just run out and then a DOLS can be applied - or do they have to run into a section 3?
Oh NO! I read about your procedure Ann and didn't think things could get worse. How wrong I was!
Firstly, the procedure. Utterly wrong, unprofessional and unethical to not explain what would happen at the time or how you could be afterwards. As you say, the hospital clearly know how painful it can be afterwards, otherwise the physio wouldn't have been offering crutches. Local anaesthetic for the injection and analgesia for afterwards should have been offered (genuinely) at least.
I hope hope you have managed to get some sleep (with everything else going round and round in your mind) and that the pain is easing. Don't forget that,all other things being equal, you can take a combination of paracetamol, codeine and ibuprofen - and they are all available over the counter in some form. Don't be afraid to take enough analgesia - but don't use it to allow unwise activity either!
Now to MIL and, for once, I am almost speechless. I really believed that she would be safely in the EMI unit for a while longer. After all, the stated reason for her admission has not even been looked at yet! It's a pity you had to shout in order to be heard but it sounds as if that is exactly the way it was.
MIL is no better mentally and seems to be worse physically. The physical side might get better as she continues to recover from the chest infection - or it might not, only time will tell. Even when you are well you find her physically challenging.The combination of your increased pain and MIL's decline in mobility is a sure recipe for disaster. I don't want either her or you to become injured as a result of her being sent home before you are all ready.
Mr Mac behaved like an idiot and doesn't seem to realise how very lucky he is to have you! I think part of the problem is that he is out working long days so much that he doesn't really see the effects of MIL's behaviour, hour upon hour, day after day. He needs to put your needs first, at least for a while.
I'm afraid I believe that the time has come for you to have a significant break from caring duties. We have all seen you becoming increasingly tired and fraught, I don't think I'm the only one who thinks you are too close to a breakdown. YOU ARE IMPORTANT IN YOUR OWN RIGHT and so is your family life. This is having an impact now but also has the potential to cause long-term problems, you deserve better.
Lecture over
(((JM))), you have done your best - as a daughter, sibling, wife and mother. No-one can ask for anything more. I hope you and your daughter both improve with rest.
Love and hugs to you all xx
Firstly, the procedure. Utterly wrong, unprofessional and unethical to not explain what would happen at the time or how you could be afterwards. As you say, the hospital clearly know how painful it can be afterwards, otherwise the physio wouldn't have been offering crutches. Local anaesthetic for the injection and analgesia for afterwards should have been offered (genuinely) at least.
I hope hope you have managed to get some sleep (with everything else going round and round in your mind) and that the pain is easing. Don't forget that,all other things being equal, you can take a combination of paracetamol, codeine and ibuprofen - and they are all available over the counter in some form. Don't be afraid to take enough analgesia - but don't use it to allow unwise activity either!
Now to MIL and, for once, I am almost speechless. I really believed that she would be safely in the EMI unit for a while longer. After all, the stated reason for her admission has not even been looked at yet! It's a pity you had to shout in order to be heard but it sounds as if that is exactly the way it was.
MIL is no better mentally and seems to be worse physically. The physical side might get better as she continues to recover from the chest infection - or it might not, only time will tell. Even when you are well you find her physically challenging.The combination of your increased pain and MIL's decline in mobility is a sure recipe for disaster. I don't want either her or you to become injured as a result of her being sent home before you are all ready.
Mr Mac behaved like an idiot and doesn't seem to realise how very lucky he is to have you! I think part of the problem is that he is out working long days so much that he doesn't really see the effects of MIL's behaviour, hour upon hour, day after day. He needs to put your needs first, at least for a while.
I'm afraid I believe that the time has come for you to have a significant break from caring duties. We have all seen you becoming increasingly tired and fraught, I don't think I'm the only one who thinks you are too close to a breakdown. YOU ARE IMPORTANT IN YOUR OWN RIGHT and so is your family life. This is having an impact now but also has the potential to cause long-term problems, you deserve better.
Lecture over
(((JM))), you have done your best - as a daughter, sibling, wife and mother. No-one can ask for anything more. I hope you and your daughter both improve with rest.
Love and hugs to you all xx
