What do you do if we are too late for an LPA?

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Aggie, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. Aggie

    Aggie Registered User

    Jul 16, 2008
    12
    I am currently having my great aunt assessed and have a feeling she will be diagnosed with some form of dementia.

    At some point I will need to take control of her decision making as she is already unable to make decisions in my view (and perhaps the doctors', which we will know next week)

    My question is what do I apply for when its too late for an LPA? Is it complex? Is it done through solicitor? What are people's experiences?

    Thank you in advance!!!
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    Aggie - you'll have to apply to the courts. http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/

    I'm not going to say it's easy or cheap because it's not. However, I do think it's possible, if you are a methodical person, to apply yourself without a solicitor.

    The one thing I would say - does your aunt have much in the way of investments or property to dispose of? Because if she only had, for example her state pension and not so much else, you could probably get away with just becoming an appointee for the pension. If she has property or savings though the court route is really your only option http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/decisions/decisions.htm
     
  3. Aggie

    Aggie Registered User

    Jul 16, 2008
    12
    Thanks for your reply Jennifer. Yes, she does have property and savings....so I guessed I'd have to go the complicated route. My question is who pays for it...because it's about £400 isn't it??? I don't have to pay do I? I'm not doing this because I want to but to protect her assets.
     
  4. needsomecake

    needsomecake Registered User

    Apr 12, 2008
    10
    I applied to the Court of Protection to be a 'Deputy' for my Dad. It is quite a long winded process but you don't have to go through a solicitor if you don't want to (I didn't) - if you do it will cost a lot more.

    Yes, the preson making the application (ie you) will have to pay the initial fee of £400, unless you have a low income or get certain types of benefits. You can however state in your application that you wish to be reimbursed this sum out of your great aunt's money once you have the authority. There will probably be a fee for a doctor to fill in one of the forms as well.

    I did find a web forum on this topic which may be useful

    http://www.youreable.com/forums/forum.jspa?forumID=2&start=0

    It will probably take about 3 months to get things sorted (based on my experience). Hope this helps.

    It may be that your great aunt may be deemed capable of understanding and agreeing to an LPA - this is probably an easier route to go if at all possible.
     
  5. roundy

    roundy Registered User

    Jan 1, 2009
    318
    southport
    I have LPA for my mum. It is in sections financial affairs and welfare. You have to fill in both or I would recommend it. Each form costs £150 and I would do it quick as further down the road no doctor will sign it to say they are in fit state of mind. Our CPN took it for me and then got my mum in to see the doctor,they spoke to us seperatly just to make sure my mum understood what it was,then he filled his bit. It is a bit tricky but worth it to take the worry off your parent. Make sure you fill in every single bit correct because if one little thing is wrong it will get refused and you will have to start all over again and pay again!
    good luck!
    Lisa.x
     
  6. Stephen Hants

    Stephen Hants Registered User

    Jan 2, 2007
    80
    hampshire
    Just one correction to the comment about costs. For an ordinary LPA it is the donor who pays. if their income is below a certain amount it is free. The attorney's income is not considered. You will need proof of income though. For an LPA a professional has to state she is capable of making the POA. I dont know what the process is if that is not the case but as stated the office of the Public Guardian should be able to help
     
  7. needsomecake

    needsomecake Registered User

    Apr 12, 2008
    10
    Yes, for an LPA I believe the donor pays. If however, an LPA is not possible then an application for 'deputyship' (different to an LPA) has to made to the Court of Protection, and in this case the person making the application has to pay - details of exemptions and remissions are on the website in jenniferpa's post.

    Hope this isn't confusing matters further!
     
  8. Stephen Hants

    Stephen Hants Registered User

    Jan 2, 2007
    80
    hampshire
    Thanks for clarifying that distinction between LPA and Deputy. Probably another good reason for trying at least to get a LPA in place when you can.
     
  9. Aggie

    Aggie Registered User

    Jul 16, 2008
    12
    Thank you all for your comments, very useful! I guess once I know the results of her assessment, we'll be able to determine whether it's an LPA or Deputyship.
     
  10. Lynne

    Lynne Registered User

    Jun 3, 2005
    3,433
    Suffolk,England
    Just adding my 10p worth of experience ...

    My Mum was still lucid & reasonable for quite some time after her diagnosis of Alzheimer's Disease, and we got her solicitor to draw up the EPA documentation AFTER the diagnosis. He had known her for many years, and checked (by gentle questioning, several times during our visit) that she understood what giving me (& her brother) Power of Attorney meant in broad terms. Her financial affairs were pretty simple, just the value of her house & a few thousand pounds in the bank really, so perhaps that helped.

    Just as a matter of record, the EPA was never actioned (i.e. submitted to the Court of Protection for Registration) so I/we never got as far as paying for that part of it; just the solicitor's bill. Mum died last year.
     
  11. Aggie

    Aggie Registered User

    Jul 16, 2008
    12
    Thanks Lynne, and I'm sorry about your mum.

    The only concern I have about an EPA is that my great aunt signs anything you put in front of her and I mean anything. She had some unsavoury characters living with her for 2 years (long story) and I'm concerned she may have signed something, not understanding what it was. If she now signs an EPA it illustrates that she is of a sound mind to make decisions/sign things. Which, if she did sign something in the recent past, would make that acceptable and legal?

    If she is diagnosed with AD and not capable of understanding/making decisions, it may make any "suspicious" documents invalid?

    I guess I have to cross that bridge when we come to it......this is all so new to me, but I feel better because we are starting to get some help - I was doing all this on my own before without involvement of GPs or SS.
     
  12. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    Well it would be an LPA now, not an EPA.

    I can see where you're coming from but I'm not sure that even if your aunt was found not to have capacity now, that would really effect anything she might have signed in the past. If she had signed something it would be up to you to prove that she didn't have capacity rather than for someone to prove that she did. Tough and expensive whichever way it was. The courts tend to err on the side of competence rather than the other way unless there was some other proof. All you can really do is your best to protect her now rather worrying too much about what she might have done before, since if she had signed something there's no doubt you'll hear about it at some point and frankly, there's not much you can do about it now.
     
  13. Aggie

    Aggie Registered User

    Jul 16, 2008
    12
    Thank you Jennifer! I guess I have to stop worrying about the past and concentrate on the now! Hopefully will have a better picture next week.
     
  14. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #14 Margarita, Jan 10, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2009
    I lost my mother EPA , coursing me a lot of issue now as I can not get a privet penstion from my father paid into my account unless I show the EPA .

    As I am appointee of her pension , as back them I had it, so showed it to the Pension people.

    Now mum bank account is closed , and mum pension, AA is paid into my account .


    The solicitor I use back then is not there he left, the whole company move and when I rang them they can't find the my mother paper work with the original EPA.

    So my mother losing out on her NHS pension from my father.

    I just never thought about sending the EPA to the privet pension when I had the EPA . Then when the bank account got closed, as the bank closed the account , because I moved mum money out of that account into mine . Then mum bank said they where writing to me , but I never received any letter . so they said they just closed the account because I was not getting back to them as they sent me a few letters, but I never received them. but I did get the letter telling me they Closed the account !!

    So the NHS pension stop going into the account as they presume mum had pass away .

    I wrote to NHS postmaster .

    So the only way the NHS will pay mum pension into my account is if I have the EPA :rolleyes:.

    I was thinking I could get a new EPA , Just that it sounds so complicated, I don't want to pay any solicitor fee .

    How do I do it myself ?
     
  15. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    What about setting up a new joint account (you and your mum)and getting that pension paid into that? Or an account that was set up "For the benefit of Mrs (your mum's name)? I think you're going to consult with at least CAB over this, since I assume from what you say you don't have the original or a certified copy of the EPA and it's not been registered, or am I wrong about all that? It just sounds like the primary problem is they won't pay the pension into an account that's not in your mother's name unless you can produce the EPA.
     
  16. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #16 Margarita, Jan 10, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2009
    That is right . As mum gave me the EPA , before mum was diagnosed with AZ . The only proof I have of it is a letter from the solicitor, saying his enclosing copy of it and a half rip bit of the EPA , because back then before finding TP . I never relies the important of the EPA .

    That a good idea, just have to find mum passport.



    I went to the site about EPA downloaded the forums , had a flash back of memories of sighing it with the witness , then sending it back to the solicitor . Would ant of solicitor had to send it somewhere official to get it done? Just asking that out of curiosity
     
  17. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    No, EPA's were just drawn up not registered. Did you say the solicitor has disappeared effectively? Would the law society have some record of who had taken over the clients?

    Edited to add - sorry I read back and saw you'd addressed that.
     
  18. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    Maggie

    All Solicitors (and accountants) are required to nominate another firm to take over their clients if they go out of business. I suggest you contact the Law Society to find out who your original solicitors nominated to take over, and then contact them.

    This should cost you nothing.

    Margaret
     
  19. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    I'm afraid the situation is not that Maggie doesn't know who has taken over the files, but they don't have the EPA in their files. It's possible that they did not keep a copy.
     
  20. pebble

    pebble Registered User

    Apr 18, 2008
    57
    The Borders, Scotland
    to Aggie

    Aggie
    Just a mention - if your relative has capacity to sign a power of attorney now but you are concerned she may have signed things in the past through the "unsavouries" you should be able to have a clause in the new document revoking all prior documents - much in the same way as you do with wills (where specific dates and details are not needed. Some legal advice would be advised.
     

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