Violent behaviour,an update,advice please anyone.

[Grannie G]

I understand there are times when it`s inappropriate to interfere with issues between a husband and wife, but when sickness is an issue, it`s a different story.

I can see where you`re coming from Micky, but you are speaking with sentiment, and from your heart. No harm in that, but I have to agree with jennifer and Kathleen, who are speaking with reason. How would Kayleigh feel if her mother caused her father grievous bodily harm,, thinking he was an imposter and a threat, and she had stood by and let it happen.

When illness strikes, particularly illness that causes inappropriate and unpredictable behaviour, intervention is often the only answer.

Take care

 

[Skye]

I care for my husband John. I love him dearly, and sincerely hope that I will have the strength to care for him until the end. The thought of him having to go into care, even for respite, horrifies me.

But John has never been violent. If he became so ill that he thought I was an imposter, and was attacking me with a kitchen knife, I think I would be too stressed and upset to make any rational decision.

In those circumstances, I would hope that my step-sons would have the courage, and care for me, to call in the experts and take that decision out of my hands.

Kayleigh is a loving daughter who sees her father being torn apart by this situation. What loving daughter wouldn't intervene?

 

[mickyinlondon]

Hi Skye.

Yes I do believe Kayleigh is a loving caring daughter; and from her mother she came into this world; this is something her father knows; and with this loving daughter that he has; he owes it to his wife.

Right or wrong; none can judge his desire to decline anything happening to his wife; the mother of his own children.

I feel in his own way; right or wrong to all around, he is honouring her the best way he knows; or can.

I have much to learn; so don't take what I write seriously; I was just trying to put the fathers side; by placing myself in his position.

One thing that does shine through in my opinion; is Kayleigh herself; her mother would be proud of her; if she could reason, and see her.

And maybe her father knows, his wife knows this.

It was stated that when he came back; his wife was happy to see him etc.

So it stands to reason; during the long days and nights; she does periodically still know him; as he knows her.

I can tell you this from experience; my mother died when I was a child; and I have had no fear of death ever since; because I felt if I go; then I would go to her; her grave is my grave; and one day I will be lay beside her; never to part again.

I also have never forgotten her; she is me; and I feel she is always there by my side through thick and thin; there is more to life than just living; if you loose everything; then you have nothing more to loose.

This may be how Kayleigh's father feels.........Micky.

 

[Margarita]

I personally; do not see why a person with dementia; should not be understood; just because they make no sense to those of us that have no illness.

I would think every one on TP would aggress with you on that .

and not every one would agress with well I don't

there is more to life than just living;

what do you mean by that ?

as I have a passion for life and living,

 

[mickyinlondon]

Hi Margarita.

Aggress, ie attack?

More to life than living; ie, existing for existings sake.

It was just my way of saying just living is not enough, even with dementia victims; I feel my wife is more than just living; she see's the flowers; the sunshine, the creatures all around her, etc.

When my mother died; I was just living, nothing more; an empty child, lost without a role or aim in life; then I felt I should amount to something for her; even if it was just to make her life mean something, and to give her the grandchildren she would never know; but I would know they also were a part of her life.

I cannot tell you what I feel, or why I feel it; but I have always preferred giving, as against taking.

Example; my wife could well end up being classed as living, if she went to far with her dementia; but I believe she could still see the flowers and the sunshine; if she could not; then she would just be living; nothing more.

But who really knows what a dementia sufferer can or cannot see; you have to have first hand experience to know for sure; so there is more to life; than just living.

I will try to refrain from such words or statements in future; because I see things in my own way; just as you do in your way.........Micky.

 

[jenniferpa]

No No Mickey: you misunderstood Maggie: that was agrees NOT attack, and I think the reason she didn't agree with you about "life is not just for living" is that for her, living encompasses the whole thing, while I believe that when you say "living" you're using it in the sense of "existing". Everyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Margarita]

I even could not understand when you said

Aggress, ie attack?

If I agree with you I am not attacking you

If I disagree with you I am not attacking you.

I am just misunderstood what you meant. We all perceive thing different in life when we read something, just like you did about Kayleigh's father, you saw it in a different way.

How could I have Possibly know what you meant by

there is more to life than just living; if you loose everything; then you have nothing more to loose.

so to me Life and liveing is all they is yes this is right

encompasses the whole thing,

. so to lose everything would mean I would be dead . ( how I see it )

So when you say lose everything you mean lose every thing as in Materiel thing , not the self ?

Now I do agree with that , as that is why I ask you what do you mean ?

I only undertood that when I lost my father , I lived in a safe zone , when my father died then . then I new what the real meaning of life was .

If you don't mind me saying you found that out from an early age , becasue you lost your mother so young .

if she went to far with her dementia; but I believe she could still see the flowers and the sunshine; if she could not; then she would just be living; nothing more.

yes so all is left is the self the I ( the soul , The core of one being )

I will try to refrain from such words or statements in future; because I see things in my own way; just as you do in your way.........Micky.

that is why its good to share , keep posting please

 

[mickyinlondon]

Hi Margarita.

I now realise that we have a slight language difference; when I read aggress; which in English means attack; like aggressor etc; you really meant to write agree.

I did place a question mark at the end of that sentence; like so?

So think nothing of it; just a word taken out of context…….Micky.

 

[dolly gee]

Hi All

I posted a few days ago about Mom (82 with recent diagnosed Vad) she was on recent anti-psychotic medicine but had attacked Dad with knife and I wondered what to do. You were all so helpful and taking your advice I called back in the psychiatrist who upped the medicine and said ANY repeat of this behaviour he must be told and Mom taken into hospital .

Moving on to today,urgent call from Dad at 9am to get there as soon as possible. Did that and have had the worst morning of my life. Mom convinced (again) Dad is not Dad from the night before at 11.30pm and told him to leave house. Dad thinking she would have either clamed down by this morning or forgotten episode said he will go in the morning (today) amazingly she has remembered and held him to it.

Mom is hysterical and violent. I personally saw her over the morning grind her fist into his face, punch him in it and knock off his glasses and 4 separate times go for him with her walking stick. She alternated this with running outside in the street shouting "help" and asking the decorators they have in to help her and attempting to dial 999.

My problem is this; he WOULD NOT let me get the doctor back in. He said Mom will be taken in (which is correct) and she will never come back out. He said he will endure what she has to dish out and "only get him back in when she knifes me again" I can hardly believe what I am hearing,its so ridiculous but feel so,so sad that my Dad is that loyal to her to stand it.

He did try to stop her going out into street at one point and they had a scuffle over the door,him trying to keep it closed. I am amazed to report her strength was equal if not above his. She is under 5ft and 6 stone,he ,average size and weight male. Only way to pacify her was to take Dad out and pretend he was leaving which was more for his own safety. Unsuprisingly the workmen suddenly had an urgent call! Whether it was wise to leave her alone I dont know but on our return she was so pleased the "real" Dad was back and proceeded to tell him all about the other B*****D that was in the house all morning.

I have waffled on a bit here but I do have a question and that is ;should I have ignored Dad's wishes and called Doctor? I had the number on me. I cant bear to think my actions alone IE the call, will result in my Mom being sectioned. Dad has begged me not to. I rang my Brothers, one said "ring yes, defenietly" the other one I got in touch with said " if Dad said he can cope,leave him too it, and take a step back" that one incidently sees them about 4 times a year. So conflicting advice there too.

Has anyone been in this position? It is all new to me as Mom only diagnosed 2 weeks ago but is detoriating at a rate of knotts. I know by reading some posts that some peoples relatives have been diagnosed for years but Mom seems to have gone from 0-60 in 2 weeks. Her inital MMSE test at diagnosis was 14,does that have any bearing I wonder? I forgot to add during all this I suspect Mom had a TIA. I have never witnessed one but it was like a hypnotist said "sleep" to her and she fell back on sofa with eyes closed for around 30 seconds. Dad said after it happens alot. Again he would not let me call regular GP as he afraid they would send her in ( to the psychriatric ward)

My stress is through the roof, I honestly dont know where I am drawing my reserves of mental energy and coping strategies from. I had a horrible thought today, if she had dies 2 years ago after her major stroke I am sure she would have been better off. Phyisically she made a remarkable recovery, its very evident now that there are come-backs. Forgive me for going on,I know its similar to my other post but I was hoping for some improvement. I feel so sad for Mom but equally my heart breaks for Dad. I can not now question his loyalty after what I witnessed today.

To sum up I am between a rock and a hard place. Next time (maybe later or tomorrow!) do I listen to Dad or do I get Mom taken in hospital and looked at. Will she ever come back out..............

Thanks for "listening" it actually has helped to write this down.

K xxx

kayliegh agree with everyone you have to think of your dad i am sure he will come to terms with what has happend to your mum i wish you well keep in touch god bless dolly gee

 

[Margarita]

OIC

micky It read aggress . I should of put agrees or is agreeing .

Not only language difference am also Dyslexic all those e ,g , s Make it look all cross eyed to me wrong way around . Sure my brain is back to fount lol always can see the ending before the beginning

 

[Kathleen]

Margarita

Thought I would just let you know that I really admire you, having to cope with a language difference and dyslexia and caring for your Mum and your teenagers ............you are one strong lady.

Kathleen
x

 

[mickyinlondon]

OIC

micky It read aggress . I should of put agrees or is agreeing .

Not only language difference am also Dyslexic all those e ,g , s Make it look all cross eyed to me wrong way around . Sure my brain is back to fount lol always can see the ending before the beginning

Good Morning Margarita.

We have only just met; and as I have said; I just write what is in my head and heart at the time; I read much the same way; so it was I, that took the word at merit; without knowing the way you write; I do understand you much better now.

You do so well, being dyslexic; please accept my apology; it was I that should have understood what you meant.

You may not believe this; Margarita; but six years ago I could not spell many words correctly myself; and I am not dyslexic..

Lots of Love to you..........Micky.

 

[kayleigh999]

Update

Hi everyone

First off can I say a heartfelt thank you to each and every one who took the time to reply to my post. I have read and re-read them and I feel support, see sensible advice and compassion for my Parents situation. I feel so fortunate to have found this forum.

The situation 3 days on is this (I am almost ashamed to write this) I did not call him in, I could not do it although I have a contingincy plan in place for Tuesday may 8th. I so,so hope that people reading this who replied dont think..hmmm,she had all our advice,mainly telling her to call him and she went and ignored it...It was not like that at all and that I promise.

I have not been able to see my parents since Friday as young son quite ill with viral infection (ok today) but from what my Dad has been saying you would think they had popped out to lourdes and got a cure! Apparently Mom is fantastic and "back to normal" and "those pills are working" and he praised me for getting him out of the house that day and taking him back under the guise of the "real" husband. He said it worked fantastic and no probs since. Now what I am feeling is this...cynical!!! I feel he is going OTT because he is SO desperate to keep her at home and at this exact moment in time I dont want to rain on his parade (or should that be charade!!!)

Anyway I do have a plan as tomorrow is the first visit from the CPN who is attached to the hospital. I am going to ring her before she comes in,explain what has happened and take her advice and if she wants to pass it all on to the said doctor then it is, in a way ,out of my hands. I will also mention I am almost 100% sure I witnessed Mom having a mini stroke in the middle of it all. I so hope I am doing the right thing. Dad kept begging me that afteroon not to call the Doctor and in the middle of all the stress and confusion I just wanted to calm him down a bit I suppose.


Something has come to my mind regarding my parents and their attitude to hospitals and I do hope I am not digressing but would like to share it with you. My parents have almost a phobia about hospitals, they see them as never coming home and almost like a punishment if that makes an ounce of sense to anyone reading this. This was brought home to me almost tragically 2 years ago. In July 2005 Mom had a stroke, it was a friday and it was around 7pm. The first I heard of it was on the saturday morning at 9AM! I had a call from Dad, "I think your Mom has had a stroke" Dashed round there (only live 1 mile away) and found Mom in bed, clearly had had one and rang 999 straight away. When I asked Dad why he left it until now he explained he put her to bed and hoped it was something else and she would be OK in the morning. Apparently he carried her to bed and hoped it would all just go away!

Mom was hospitalised for around a month and I cant fault his loyalty as in that particular hospital it was open visiting and he went from midday until 8pm and never missed a day. Mom made a good recovery regarding her body but it was clear her mind was damaged as she spend most of those 8 hours of Dad's visiting throwing things at him and blaming him for having her "put away in this hell hole"


I have since,many times thought about and questioned my Dad's actions on that Friday. The fear his wife would be taken away from him was the main one. I can see how anybody reading this may think how ridiculous that sounds and of course it was a medical emergency but Dad was in denial. I have since stopped asking myself if earlier medical intervention may have produced a better long term outcome for Mom because the answer to that question hurts my heart. Of course it would.

Back to present then and something stands out to myself now (these boards are theraputic,i can read my post and see a light coming on!) my Dad then was in denial and on Friday was in denial. Hoping it will all just go away. Well it wont and if it happens again I will take over, like I did on that morning in July 2 years ago and I do not regret my actions then,quite the opposite, and I wont regret them now(or whenever it happens) Sometimes you have to look outside the box and put the welfare of people before emotions. If I did not do it 2 years ago I probably would not have a Mom now. Hope I am not making Dad out as a fool as he is a highly intelligent Man who's judgement is severly clouded at the thought of Mom going away from him,wether that be temporarily or not. One final thing to add is in the early days of Mom's stroke when things looked bleak he actually gave me his will to look after. He told me " if your Mom dies, I will be making plans to join her so sort out the money for you and the lads" Devotion? selfishness? Who knows. All I will say is it was said in a calm way, he had planned it out and I feel that he would have carried it through, which probably stands true today.

Thank you all so much for listening and replying . I do feel like the new girl here as diagnosis only 2 weeks old. Please bear with me if I dont do the right things and may extend my thoughts and best wishes to all those who lives are blighted by this cruel confusing disease.

Kxxxxx

 

[Kathleen]

Please bear with me if I dont do the right things and may extend my thoughts and best wishes to all those who lives are blighted by this cruel confusing disease.

Kxxxxx

There is no right or wrong way for any of us, the nature of the disease is unpredictable and with no timescale, a very draining illness for both the sufferer and family.

I am pleased for your sake that you are going to speak to the CPN before she visits your parents, it will take the weight from your shoulders.

Your love for your parents is obvious and I hope all goes well for all of you.

Keep us posted.

Kathleen
x

(Wow, I finally got the hang of inserting a quote!)

 

[Margarita]

can see how anybody reading this may think how ridiculous that sounds

Don’t even think that its you that living in it , not use.

My parents also did not like hospital. I did a first aide (sp) course and my father always said to teach my mother the kiss of life, because he new my mother would not know what to do in an emergency and she never . sounds like that what happen to your father .

Panic and fear take over in those Situations



Hope all go ok with CPN xx

 

[Margarita]

PS

Micky

You may not believe this; Margarita; but six years ago I could not spell many words correctly myself; and I am not dyslexic..

Gosh now that is good .

Oh its ok really, they always going to be new people coming on TP, like you that do not know . so misunderstanding are always going to pop up, with me and my posting .

It be a teaching progress for me for the future as I have never really challenge myself over it, yes being a caring person always have put myself second, when it came to my education, I have learn from life skills more the written skills and I am sure that they must be plenty of other people out they like I. Like you also .



Just that I found out read about dyslexia that it affect the perception of the brain that perceive thing IE like words.

 

[Amy]

Hiya Kayleigh

if it happens again I will take over, like I did on that morning in July 2 years ago and I do not regret my actions then,quite the opposite, and I wont regret them now(or whenever it happens) Sometimes you have to look outside the box and put the welfare of people before emotions.

You are so right. You have to care for both parents - do what is in the best interest of both - even if they dont realise it.

Dont worry about ignoring advice - as long as it helps you in your thinking, that is all that matters. Only you are in your situation - only you know what feels right to you to do.

Take care.
Love Helen

 

[Margarita]

Have miss seeing (reading ) you on TP Amy nice to see you back

 

[Grannie G]

Hi Kayleigh, The `advice ` given on TP doesn`t have to be taken. It`s just a means of hearing different points of view, to enable you to put your own thoughts in order.

It looks as if you have been able to do that and I`m really pleased for you.

Carry on as you are doing and you will be helping your parents as no-one else could.

Please keep on with the updates.

With love

 

[jenniferpa]

I really think that's a main virtue of a forum like this: as a sounding board. You can lay it all out, possibly get given options that you hadn't thought of, but in the final analysis you are the one who has to decide what to do. Everything you have written sounds very familiar to me, particularly the dislike of hospitals and a reluctance to involve the medical profession: this is my mother's attitude to a "t". I agree that speaking to the CPN first is a good idea, I also agree that you're probably right in thinking the situation isn't resolved. It is in the nature of this type of disease that you lurch from one crisis after another: some will be easily dealt with, some won't be. You're father may have his head in the sand, but YOU don't, so you'll at least in part be prepared emotionally for the next one, so that while you make not be able to fix it, you will be able to support both of them.

Take care

Jennifer