Taking husband out of care home

[Boutinette]

Although the care home where my husband is , is ok , there are several reasons why I would like to bring him home eventually.
I haven’t got POA and my husbands capacity fluctuates .
They want to do a Dols assessment next week and have invited me to it .
But what I really want to know is can I take my husband out of care home and bring him back home
At the moment , we have Chc but this is due to be reviewed shortly

 

[Kevinl]

Hello and welcome.
Should he become put under a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding Order (Dols) then I can only say, I've never heard of them being used when the person isn't in a care/nursing home or some designated care facility of some sort.
I would offer to send you a copy of the eligibility assessment form but it's 22 sides of paper long.
Others may know of a DoLSO being used in a home situation. K

 

[Rayreadynow]

DoLS cant normally be used in a home situation:

'Deprivation of liberty in domestic settings In Cheshire West, the Court confirmed a deprivation of liberty can occur in domestic settings, if the State is responsible for imposing the arrangements. This includes a placement in a supported living arrangement in the community. If there may be a deprivation of liberty in such placements, it must be authorised by the Court of Protection' AGE UK Factsheet 62

 

[Boutinette]

Thanks but that’s not what I am asking
Am I allowed to take him out of care home to bring him home for me to look after him ?

 

[Chizz]

Hi @Boutinette

A Local Authority Adult Social Services, or a NHS Hospital Trust usually only consider a DoLS Order where the PWD is or is likely to be or become a danger to themselves or to others.

There must be a reason why they want to get a DoLS order, other than just dementia without abusive, aggressive or violent actions or episodes.

If you don't have a LPoA Health and Welfare then the ultimate responsibility for the care of the PWD is the LA ASS based on medical evidence and opinion.

As you say your PWD has CHC then there must be other conditions than dementia that require a primary medical care environment, which the medics and/or the LA ASS may not think you will be able to provide at home without professional help.

I don't know from your post what those other conditions are, nor do I know your age and state of health (to be able to cope at home), nor do I know your PWD's age and stage of dementia (bearing in mind that the current position with your PWD is as good as he's ever going to be). Without all info it is difficult to answer your question, and without the info I would suggest you let the proposed assessment meeting proceed as planned, and that you should attend both to hear what is said, and to have your say.

 

[northumbrian_k]

Hi @Boutinette

I can't give you a definitive answer to your question as I have never tried it. I would think that you would need to be able to show that it would be in his best interests and that you could provide a safe environment for him. Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding often applies when a person is unable to process complex information or make a rational choice about where to live. It is about providing a safe environment in a way that is least restrictive for the person. If it is thought necessary because that environment is a care home then I am not sure of your grounds for disputing it. That's not to say that it absolutely can't be done. I agree that attending the meeting and raising it there would be a way to find out.

 

[Violet Jane]

I’m wondering why you want to bring your husband home when a few months ago you were fighting to get him into residential care. What’s changed?

 

[Boutinette]

I’m wondering why you want to bring your husband home when a few months ago you were fighting to get him into residential care. What’s changed?

I don’t remember saying that on this forum a few months ago as I only recently joined this forum
However , what has changed is a few months of going to visit him into a care home , having some issues with management there and generally speaking not being enthralled by the experience
In life , it is ok to change your mind isn’t it ?

 

[Violet Jane]

Yes, of course you’re allowed to change your mind. I was reading your posts from the end of last year.

I hope that things work out for you.

 

[canary]

Hello @Boutinette

I think this is the thread that @Violet Jane was thinking of. You sounded pretty desperate then

Husbands discharge

Hello Having a right battle with social worker who wants my bed bound husband who also lacks capacity to come home and be nursed at home with 4 carers a day It is very stressful and I don’t know what to do

forum.alzheimers.org.uk

Certainly you are allowed to change your mind, but I too wondered why you have.
Is the guilt monster whispering in your ear that you you gave up too soon, that you should have tried harder and that it will all be different this time?

 

[notsogooddtr]

Looking back at your posts from last year you were adamant that home wasn’t the right place for your husband.Do you think it might be better to look for a different NH?

 

[Rayreadynow]

I think maybe it would be down to a best interests meeting and Social Services and they will talk to the care home manager about where they think the best place will be for them to reside and you can guess what their answer will be. Social Services are very risk adverse and will probably take the approach 'if it aint broke dont fix it'.

 

[SAP]

I think the decision will also come down to funding. If the LA may funding his care if/when the CHC changes and you have no POA they are going to go with the option that is best for him and them.

 

[karaokePete]

Thanks but that’s not what I am asking
Am I allowed to take him out of care home to bring him home for me to look after him ?

The short answer is yes. However it isn't easy - either to get that done, or deal with matters if you achieve your aim.

My wife was 'sectioned' in Jan '23 and spent the period from then until the end of Nov '23 in 4 hospitals and 2 residential homes. I wasn't happy with the care being provided so asked for a best interests meeting in November. I had to show that there wasn't a safeguarding issue and that I could provide adequate care. At the meeting I was able to tear strips off the hospitals and residential homes and demanded that they didn't hold me to a higher standard than their own facilities. It took a lot of effort on my part.

My wife has been at home since 29th November and is now in a better place than any of the hospitals or residential homes. It's hard work as the dementia continues to progress. I was confident that I could provide better care and you would have to be the same - you know your husband's condition and your own abilities better that anyone else.

 

[Boutinette]

The short answer is yes. However it isn't easy - either to get that done, or deal with matters if you achieve your aim.

My wife was 'sectioned' in Jan '23 and spent the period from then until the end of Nov '23 in 4 hospitals and 2 residential homes. I wasn't happy with the care being provided so asked for a best interests meeting in November. I had to show that there wasn't a safeguarding issue and that I could provide adequate care. At the meeting I was able to tear strips off the hospitals and residential homes and demanded that they didn't hold me to a higher standard than their own facilities. It took a lot of effort on my part.

My wife has been at home since 29th November and is now in a better place than any of the hospitals or residential homes. It's hard work as the dementia continues to progress. I was confident that I could provide better care and you would have to be the same - you know your husband's condition and your own abilities better that anyone else.

Thank you for a very clear answer
I didn’t realise until today that it might need so much effort to get someone out of a care home

 

[Boutinette]

Hello @Boutinette

I think this is the thread that @Violet Jane was thinking of. You sounded pretty desperate then

Husbands discharge

Hello Having a right battle with social worker who wants my bed bound husband who also lacks capacity to come home and be nursed at home with 4 carers a day It is very stressful and I don’t know what to do

forum.alzheimers.org.uk

Certainly you are allowed to change your mind, but I too wondered why you have.
Is the guilt monster whispering in your ear that you you gave up too soon, that you should have tried harder and that it will all be different this time?

Yes I think there is a lot of guilt at play here
And yes I think it would be better this time but maybe I am deluding myself

 

[Boutinette]

Yes, of course you’re allowed to change your mind. I was reading your posts from the end of last year.

I hope that things work out for you.

Sorry yes I did join this forum back in November and had forgotten!
Must be the stress
But anyway I think I am not completely happy with the care home scenario and I have read on various forums that people have taken their loved ones out of care homes and have managed to care for them at home
I now accept that I would need the help of carers
I would also need to adapt the house
But all these are relatively easy
I didn’t realise that I might need a best interests meeting etc to get him out

 

[canary]

Yes I think there is a lot of guilt at play here
And yes I think it would be better this time but maybe I am deluding myself

If Im honest, this worries me.

Your husband is getting CHC and, even if this is later removed, it shows that there are additional challenges over and above "normal" dementia. You did not say why he became eligible for CHC, but the usual reasons are an additional health need (like cancer), unpredictable and extreme aggression/violence, a very high risk of falls, or because they are at end of life. The bar for receiving CHC is very high and it is difficult to get.

Many people with dementia seem to improve enormously once they move to a care home and their needs are being met, but they only seem better because they are where they are. My mum was never eligible for CHC, but became totally paranoid while she was living at home, not eating, living in squalor and thinking that I was doing terrible things to her. But this was born of fear and anxiety because her needs were not being met. Once she moved to a care home where her needs were being met her paranoia disappeared and her old personality returned. It would have been very easy to think that she had improved so much that she would have been able to live at home again. I knew that she wouldnt, though. She needed 24/7 care by a whole team of people working in shifts around the clock and she couldnt be left alone even for a minute. Without this she would have very quickly gone back to square one.

If you want to bring him back you will have to take off rosy glasses and find out exactly what his needs are behind the scenes. Then find out exactly what help you will be offered. Even with CHC, in many places you would only be offered 4 carer visits a day and nothing overnight. Find out if there is anything else, like befrienders, that you can access. You will have to be realistic about what you can do and will need some form of respite built in.

And dont listen to the guilt monster

 

[Rishile]

I got my husband out of a Care Home because I wasn't happy with the level of care being provided. I did all of his personal care, spent five hours per day with him at the Care Home and still things were happening which were not dealt with adequately by the staff.

The Care Home served notice on him because they said they couldn't meet his needs. My husband was sectioned and because of the staff in the dementia unit, they realised he would be much better off at home with me. He was extremely distressed whenever I wasn't there.

Social Services fought a hard battle to get him into another Care Home but I fought harder and had the staff of the hospital to back me up. I had proved to them I could provide for all his care needs and they wanted him to go home but safely. It was a long, hard battle but I won in the end and we are both now much happier and he is better cared for.

You need to be prepared for many conditions from Social Services who will probably insist on a large care package before they allow him home. Depending on his needs, you will need to agree to all/most of these if you really want him home.

 

[northumbrian_k]

My version of the guilt monster was not that I gave up on my wife when arranging a permanent care home. It was that I hadn't recognised earlier that I wasn't providing her with the care that she needs and deserves. The life she had here was full of fear, suspicion, trepidation, risk, lack of hygiene and inadequate stimulation. I admire those who can continue to look after their partner at home. But my hard-headed assessment was that I could no longer. My guilt has been assuaged by the knowledge that she is safe and content in her care home.

Ultimately it is the care, health, welfare and safety of the person with dementia - and their carer - that is paramount. If that can be done in the home environment, sustainably over time then it may be a realistic 'best interests' option.