• Expert Q&A: Rare dementias - Tues 3 March, 3-4pm

    Our next expert Q&A will be on the topic of rare dementias. It will be hosted by Nikki and Seb from Rare Dementia Support. If you have any questions about rare dementias, they will be here to answer them on Tuesday 3 March between 3-4pm.

    You can either post your question >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll be happy to ask them on your behalf.

Shold ss really be paying all this money for this to go the cop

lori107

Registered User
Nov 4, 2014
45
Hi,
I haven't posted for a while but I need to ask your advice re fil. as you probably know we have had so much trouble with him as he keeps on about going back to his flat. He has deteriorated further however he believes there is nothing wrong with him and every time we see him the conversation goes the same way. Visits do not go well and he keeps saying he doesn't want to see us anymore as we are keeping him locked up. we can't even get someone to take him out anymore as he refused to get back in the car until they called the police, which they did!! We are waiting for the Dols to go to the court of protection. It seems social services have allocated a solicitor to represent his case as he is so adamant he should be able to go back to the flat and we don't understand why this is being done as every dols assessment says he is in the right place. Another assessment has been done very recently and both the dementia nurse and the psychiatrist say he has deteriorated further and he recommended that a years DOLs should be put in place. Maybe you can tell me why this is going to court with a solicitor for him. We are worried that the solicitor will only put dad's case forward and not submit any evidence that he lacks capacity and every assessment says the same conclusion, he needs to be in a 24 hour care facility. He is also virtually blind.
Evidence He is not sleeping at night and the staff in the care home seem to be up half the night with him pacing and getting agitated. He has just been prescribed Metazapine to hopefully help him calm down as he is not sleeping and is exhausted. THE sundowning is getting worse and he deteriorates from early afternoon daily getting more and more irate and agitated.
Anyway, the psychiatrist saw and his notes and commented to the manager that he didn't seem to have a DNR form. He asked the home to speak to hubby as he has poa to sign the form on fil behalf.
Hubby says he can't talk to his father about the DNR as he will not undesirable it. He will also get into a huge battle with his father saying that he just wants to get rid of him. however, when the poa was signed 2 and a half years ago he spoke to him about life saving treatment and he said he wouldn't want to live unless he could still do things. so if he had a stroke or something he wouldn't want to survive and he gave hubby poa so that he could make the right decisions for him if he easnt able to.
Should hubby sign the dnr then and not mention it to his dad do you think or should he try to speak to him first.
So first the court of protection and then the DNR, what do we do
Thanks for reading
Lori
 

Slugsta

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
2,762
South coast of England
What a nightmare for you!

I'm afraid I can't comment about the CoP as it is outside my experience.

However, regarding the PoA, I would say that your FIl made his views known to your hubby when he was able to do so. Now that FIL can no longer make these decisions for himself (which is why the PoA is being used), it is now your husband's responsibility to act on FIL's behalf, including telling people of his wishes about resuscitation.
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
3,822
Nottinghamshire
I think that as your fil made his views clear when he still had capacity to do so your husband should honour his wishes and sign the DNR. Resuscitation can be fairly brutal and an elderly person is likely to end up with broken ribs, I know this from first aid training.

I know it's horrible to think about it, but I also think trying to discuss it will just upset your FIL and would be best avoided.

I'm afraid I don't understand the COP thing either.
 

jaymor

Volunteer Moderator
Jul 14, 2006
12,676
England
Is the LPA for health and welfare?

If your FIL has spoken to your husband about treatment, as I have with my children, then he knows his Father's wishes from when he had full capacity. With LPA for health and welfare your husband will be listened to. Without does not mean that they won't listen but they could over ride a decision.

I had a DNR in place for my husband. It stated medication could be used but stopped if it was not working and only drugs to make him comfortable and pain free were to be used. If his heart stopped no rescusitation was to take place.
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,212
I take it that FiL is in a care home now, and doesn't like it and wants to go home.
How long has he been in care?
It can take several months for someone to settle, my advice would be not to visit for some time, to let him settle in his own time, as your visits are clearly winding him up.
DNR. As PoA it is hubbys duty to sign, given his fathers stated wishes.

Bod
 

tigerlady

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
427
I think it very strange that even when your FIL has a DOLS order on him, and your husband has POA, SS are funding a solicitor to put forward his case for going home. If your husband acting as POA and the mental health assessment team and the DOLS people all say he needs 24 hour care in a secure environment then that should be enough. Lots of people with dementia say there is nothing wrong with them and express their wish to go home. Its part of the disease.

Something similar happened with my husband. I had a phone call from the DOLS people saying that my husband had expressed a wish to go home and they believed I had backed this up and they had to take it seriously, so that they weren't accused of unlawfully depriving him of his freedom. They asked if I wanted to take it to court. Of course I didn't, because as much as I wanted him home, I knew the home he was talking about was just something in his head - a safe place where his mum and dad were. I had a terrible time when he was at home with extreme sundowning making him aggressive, until I could no longer cope.

They assessed him again and easily came to the conclusion that he lacked mental capacity and I think put a long term DOLS on him, as I don't think he's been assessed again since, and its been well over a year since he was assessed.

As for the DNR, as much as it seems awful to have to sign something like that for your loved one, we know how dementia takes the person away in horrible stages until there is just a shell of a body left. If your FIL discussed this with your husband when he did have capacity, then he gave your husband POA to act on his behalf according to his wishes. You can't discuss it with FIL again when he has lost mental capacity - that is when the person with POA has to act according to his wishes when he signed it.
 

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