paying for a care home when using it??

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by alfjess, Nov 24, 2007.

  1. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    #1 alfjess, Nov 24, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2007
    paying for a care home when not using it??

    Hi All

    As you probably all know Mum is in an assessment ward in the local hospital.

    I spoke to the CPN on Friday,who says that barring a miracle, Mum will probably be going to their continuing care facility in a BUPA run nursing home, which doesn't have a very good report from CSSI, but that is another issue.

    I spoke to the manager of Mum's former care home on Friday afternoon, to ask where and how we go on from here.

    She says I cannot terminate the contract for Mum, because that will leave her homeless! My parent's still own 2 houses!

    Meanwhile, because Mum has been in hospital for 2 weeks, then the free personal care allowance is stopped, so therefore we are paying more for nothing!

    Dad is still in the same room he shared with Mum, admittedly still 2 beds there, but it wouldn't take a lot of effort to move a bed out, then I would pay single persons rate.

    I have tried to contact SS, but as usual no reply and no phone call despite messages left on the answering machine.

    Do I terminate the contract with the care home, or do I hope for a miracle and Mum can go back, meanwhile it is costing approx £500 per week and neither the hospital or the CPN can tell me how long this limbo situation is going to last.

    All the CPN can say, is that Mum won't be going anywhere until they get her calmer and stabilised.

    Which is good, but how many months do I have to pay the care home?

    Totally confused and any advice would be gratefully received, by the way it isn't my money, it is Mum and Dad's But still ???
    Thanks
    Alfjess
     
  2. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Everyone

    The title should have been "Paying for care, when NOT using it"

    Cheers
    Afjess
     
  3. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Hi Alfjess, it's a tricky one, isn't it? The problems don't get any easier.

    I've just been checking up on my contract with John's home. I have to give four weeks notice if I want to remove him. If he's hospitalised, they are 'prepared to discuss a reduction of fees' after six weeks!

    I didn't know about free personal care stopping, I can see why, but I don't see why you should pay the difference, after all, your mum isn't getting the personal care, at least from the NH.

    I don't see either that they should be able to stop you giving notice of termination of contract. It's nonsense to say your mum would be homeless.

    Please let us know how it goes, it's a situation I could find myself in.

    Love,
     
  4. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Hi alfjess
    Can i please use this thread to ask a question as a carer in a home?Do you and your family take care of mums needs such as ,clean clothes,laundry,personal items,whilst she is in hospital? ia ask this for a reason and will await your reply before i let you know what it is.
    love elainex
     
  5. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Elaine

    Yes,I have to bring Mum's dirty clothes home to wash, they are in a silver plastic carrier bag for me to uplift.

    I also supply towels, flannel etc. I'm not quite sure if I need to, but the hospital towels were so small and thin that I felt I ought to.

    Mum was cold, so I bought her 3 new pairs of thermal socks last week, but could only find 1 sock this week. This isn't a big problem, but just another frustration
    thanks
    Alfjess
     
  6. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Hazel

    I have also read the agreement with the care home, maybe it is me, but it isn't clear about the client terminating the agreement, but it does say that the care home have to give 4 weeks notice to SS and have a review, although Mum is self funding.

    Good point about not making up the difference, I hadn't thought of the fact that the home is not delivering personal care, so therefore should not be paid for it. Just not thinking clearly nowadays.

    Thanks
    Alfjess
     
  7. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Thanks alfjess,

    I asked this because as you know i work in a care home.A resident of ours has been in hospital for 5 weeks.The hospital rang us to say that they thought she neede nursing care not residential.The wheels were set in motion.I had a call from the ladys S/W a couple of days ago informing me that the lady had no clean clothes.At this point may i say that the ladys family only visit on birthdays,christmas etc.I told the S/W that when the lady went into hospital she was sent with clothes etc.The S/W said that she knew that but she needed more.I have worked there a number of years and when a resident is in hospital the family are always popping in and out for clothes etc.This family didn't.The S/W informed me that as the room was still being paid for,the home was responsible for maintaining clean clothes and toiletries for the resident.I was a bit dumbstruck actually.Do they really think that a home has the resources to keep running to the hospital for laundry,and then taking it back.Am i being unreasonable here?The room does have to be paid for until re-banding document is in place and a new home found,it is usually 4 weeks notice,but notice can be taken from the date of re-banding.
     
  8. Natashalou

    Natashalou Registered User

    Mar 22, 2007
    426
    london
    This sounds a difficult situation..care is so horrendously expensive! But are u sure it is a simple as moving a bed out? My mums home has different sized rooms and thats how the bill is worked out. Mums in a single..and pays a single rate. She wants to go into a double becuase she thinks the rooms are nicer..and if one is vacant she can..but will pay a double rate .
    I cant blame the home after all they are running a business, but it certainly isnt as straightforward as a person calculation, its an accomodation calculation
     
  9. fearful fiona

    fearful fiona Registered User

    Apr 19, 2007
    723
    London
    Dear Alfjess,

    Not sure what the answer is, but thought I would send you my support. Seems unfair to pay for something you're not using, although your Dad is still using the room, surely there should be some sort of reduction because the home are not really "caring" for your Mum with all the expenses incurred. My Mum and Dad had separate rooms in the home so they closed Mum's account the day she went to the hospital.

    And yes, I am expected to go back and forth with clean laundry but that's not a problem. You get a silver carrier bag, I get a lurid green one - I'm envious. Sorry just trying to lighten the tone, but I do hope something gets sorted. It's stressful enough having one's parents in separate places, we don't need the extra hassle, do we?

    Good luck

    Much love,
     
  10. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Natashalou
    Yes I do think it is just a matter of moving a bed out. Mum and Dad occupied a room and the charge was for a single occupancy and 50% discount for the other occupier.
    If I am still willing to pay for Dad at the single ocupancy rate, then it is the same as the equivalent room across the corridor, occupied by a single person.

    I feel that the care home are trying to spin this out to get more money, although there has been no review yet

    As yet I haven't been able to contact SS (IMAGINE THAT!)

    Thanks
    Alfjess
     
  11. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Fiona

    Well done to the care home for closing your Mother's account, at least they don't appear to be driven by finances.

    I don't mind doing the laundry either. Green, silver bags, what does it matter? If in the end our Mums are looked after

    How is your Mum now? Anymore settled or calmer?

    Take Care
    Alfjess
     
  12. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    When my mother died, I was charged for the room to the end of the week, which I thought was fair. Mind you, I'm not sure if they did that as a matter of course or because of the fact that, at the time she died, they STILL hadn't sent me a contract to sign! To be honest, I don't think it worried them over much: they had a waiting list of people so it wasn't like they were going to be out a lot of money one way or the other.

    Incidentally, during my mother's stays in hospital, I NEVER paid the domicilliary care component of her bill, and I was given a discount on the laundry/cleaning/food part of her bill and I had signed a contract for those (this was when she was in extra care housing, not the nursing home).
     
  13. fearful fiona

    fearful fiona Registered User

    Apr 19, 2007
    723
    London
    Hi Alfjess,

    Thanks for asking. Mum tried to fight her way out of the unit and bit a nurse in the process so was put on an emergency section. Then when that ran out she was put on a Section 2 (28 days). She sometimes takes her medication, sometimes doesn't and when I saw her yesterday was calm but confused. She thinks my Dad is in the same unit, maybe that helps. I take each day as it comes really, as I'm sure you do.

    Interesting about the BUPA run home, I looked at one for both my parents, it was quite nice, they could have done Mum's dementia, but not my father's nursing so it was a no-no at the time. So I guess I may revisit it when Mum leaves hospital, sad though it seems, my parents seem to do better apart (Dad doesn't mention her a lot).
     
  14. chip

    chip Registered User

    Jul 19, 2005
    400
    Scotland
    Its a Bupa home i've to go and see on Wednesday but advocacy is going as well as i've been told self funders are downstairs and local authority up stairs ( them and us ) we shall see. This is the only one that will take my husband and the consultant says he doesnt qualify for continuing care. I wonder if that again is because of his age as i have never had an explaination as to why he doesnt qualify.I am expected to pay because of our age. I dont no what will happen if we turn it down.
     
  15. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Chip

    I can't understand why your husband doesn't qualify for continuing care, with all his problems.

    I hope you can resource the appropiate care for your husband

    good luck
    Alfjess
     
  16. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi

    Eventually, I managed to contact SS to-day, who have advised, that I terminate the agreement with the care home, even if this leaves Mum homeless!!

    If needs be, they will find another placement
    I only have to give 1 weeks notice to the care home to terminate the agreement and although the care home has to inform SS of any admittance to hospital after 2 weeks, SS pay for personal care for 6 weeks.

    To-night my daughter and grandaughter visited Mum, she had had another fall, they thought??

    As far as I am aware no one witnessed this fall, but Mum was listing to one side and her face was drooping on one side, my daughter thought, a stroke, but nurses informed her that if Mum could grip both hands it wasn't a stroke.

    The Doctor was called but took approx 2 hours to attend. He was busy!

    I phoned when my daughter reported this to me and I was told that it could be a UTI and the doctor was chasing the results of a urine test taken yesterday.

    When E----- spoke to the nurse in the ward, she said she was concerned about Mum's behaviour with the male patients.

    We know it is only my Dad she is looking for, but patients in the ward are being upset. In this nurses opinion, even the suggested NHS contracted facility won't work, because the units are mixed sex.

    Sorry, if this post seems confused and hard to read, but I am confused, don't know what to do for the best and Dad in the care home, after being nice and stable, suddenly he is sleeping all the time even over lunch, but that is when he will get out of bed!

    I can only dread that Dad is deteriorating also and I don't know if I can cope with that.

    What a wimp, I am
    Sorry Alfjess
     
  17. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Fiona

    Are you sure they could have done your mum's dementia?

    I am learning that not many places could handle my mum's dementia and sorry, but your mum sounds the same as mine

    I don't think my Dad mentions Mum a lot, but as I cannot understand what Dad is saying 90% of the time, I don't know.

    I hope you have the choice of selecting a care home/dementia unit for your Mum, but from what I am being told, Mum needs continuing care from phsychiatric nurses and this BUPA contracted home is the only option.

    At this point it doesn't matter about the funding.

    I wish you better luck than me
    Alfjess
     
  18. fearful fiona

    fearful fiona Registered User

    Apr 19, 2007
    723
    London
    Hello Alfjess,

    So sorry for all the trouble you are having too. Sorry your Dad is causing so much worry with his deterioration. My Dad sleeps a lot of the time too, but that is what he did at home before the move into the care home, so I'm not too worried. As long as he wakes up for meals!!

    You are so right to ask whether the BUPA home I looked at earlier could cope with my Mum now, and I have doubts myself. When the time comes, like your Mum, I think mine will have need of continuous treatment by psychiatric nurses, so I intend to ask the psychiatrist what they recommend on the basis "that I got it wrong the first time around". I was so naive, I thought because the care home had a dementia unit all would be OK, but I had no idea that my Mum would react so violently and I discovered afterwards that although they have the unit they are not a "registered EMI home".

    You are not a wimp, and let's hope we both have some better luck soon. This **** illness pushes us to the limits doesn't it?
    At least we're not alone...
     
  19. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Hi Alfgess,

    mum has been in hospital while in care, and I asked her nursing home if they would reduce the fees even a token amount as mum would not require the use of their services for this period. It was a definite no. Only when mum has been in hospital for four weeks will they even consider discussing a reduction.

    However, one positive thing to note is that you keep the nursing care fees (these are the banded fees you may get if your mother needs any nursing care) for up to four weeks of mum being in hospital.

    Without being too cynical, these nursing fees are a drop in the blooming ocean compared to the £900 a week we had to pay for the home while mum was in hospital!

    I kind of see it from the homes prespective in a business sense - the room is still needed, occupied or not. But there is definitely a reduction in cost if a resident is not at the home - meals at least.

    What these homes really miss out on more than anything, is the good will gesture. Life is about give and take, but there sure seems to be a lot of oportunity for care homes to do a lot of taking in the later stages of our life. Care home contracts are very dubious and people rarely question them.

    Kind Regards
    Craig
     
  20. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Craig

    Thanks for your reply and everyone else of course

    I think I might be in a situation which isn't the norm in care homes. Dad is still occupying the room!

    Although Mum is in hospital, Dad is still occupying the room.

    It is not a designated double room, because identical rooms are being occupied by single people.

    The room is in the most expensive band in the home(it was the only one available, at the time of admission) or so they told me.

    As you say they have a business to run, but I really object to paying for something when I am receiving, nothing in return.

    Mum will never be going back to this care home, in their words "they cannot meet her needs"

    The management in the care home are saying with the proper medication, there might be a chance they could have her back. I wish!!

    The nurses in the ward are saying that, not even the contracted continuing care beds in the BUPA home, will be enough.
    Mum needs female only continuing care, because of her inappropriate behaviour with male patients. there are no single gender care wards in this NHS area

    Meanwhile I am still paying the care home

    Thanks
    Alfjess
     

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