Parents Wills

[Tilly13]

Hello

I have a copy of my parents wills and I contacted the Solicitors where the original is held as I want to find out if there are any personal details re . funeral arrangements etc with their wills. I have found nothing in my parents personal papers.
I was told that the wills can only be released with a death certificate to the Executors - I didn't realise this and presume it to be correct????

I have POA for Finances and Health for both parents.
Thank you

 

[Rugby kate]

Yes I believe that's correct. The original is only released to executors after death.

 

[nitram]

I was told that the wills can only be released with a death certificate to the Executors - I didn't realise this and presume it to be correct????

Yes, except that an attorney can obtain details of any direct bequests as these should be the last to be liquated if funds are needed to fund donor's care. This is considered to be line with the donor's wishes.

I think it is reasonable for the solicitor to tell you details of any funeral requests, have you asked this direct question

 

[SAP]

Yes that’s right about the executors and the wills. These only come into effect when a person had died. The LPA stops the moment a person has died , so having one or the other or both makes no difference, they are separate documents for separate occasions. ( exception as stated by nitram above)
Have your parents got a copy of their wills in the house. I have a copy of my mums and I did for my dad.

 

[MaNaAk]

Don't forget to apply for probate.

MaNaAk

 

[Jessbow]

I'd have thought that a solicitor that holds the wills would be able to check that for you.
MaNaAk- nothing is being executed at the moment

 

[MarieD]

She is correct my mother put her wishes in her will but only with regard to her wanting to be cremated and her ashes put with my fathers.
The executor will be in charge of the bank accounts etc so you’d need to discuss with them re funeral arrangements they’ll have a copy of the will so will be able to advise if anything has been requested.
The POA finishes on death.

 

[nitram]

I'd have thought that a solicitor that holds the wills would be able to check that for you.

Agreed, it could be important eg wish to be buried in xxx cemetery, cemeteries associated with churches are rapidly becoming full.
Purchasing a plot in advance would not be counted as deprivation of assets,

 

[jaype]

I think you might be able to ask to view the will as a finance attorney so you can manage affairs appropriately relative to their final wishes for inheritance. I recall reading that or something like that somewhere? but not sure if it's true or I recall right? not a legal expert.

 

[Tilly13]

Thank you so much for all your replies

 

[doingmybest1]

Hi Tilly13
My heart goes out to you because this is really hard stuff to deal with and if you've just been left bits of documents, even with PoA it's a bit rubbish to get your head round but it's something that it seems you, as a kind caring person wanting to do the best by your parents, are trying to ensure you put in place as per their wishes in advance.
As others have said, once the person dies, the PoAs don't have any legal weight. At that point, whatever is in the will kicks in and can only be seen by the Executors of the Will once probate is applied for.
However, there's this weird bit if you are a PoA for finance and health, where actually, you can sell a house, and all effects but because you don't know what's in the Will, you don't know what you can get rid of and sell for your parents benefit to fund fees if they are in a care home etc, vs what you should keep because they said it in their Will.
Someone has suggested here that with PoA we can get visbility of the will in advance to ensure that we act according to the person's wishes. I also saw links suggesting that (I'll try and dig them out in the next few days), but when I contacted my Mum's solicitors I was told that wasn't the case, that all we could do with PoA was asked if they had the genuine will registered with them. Once they confirmed they had that Will they were unable to confirm if there was a later Will or even advise me as PoA what I needed to do at this point or share any further details.

I'm left emotionally confused and scratching my head because I hold PoA finance and health, and Mum's nursing/care home has asked, that for their records, I supply information on whether Mum will be cremated/burried and further information about Funeral Directors should be contacted to remove her body from the care home.

I'm guessing its so that they can handle Mum's body appropriately when she passes as it's likely she'll die of dementia and not need more than a GP to confirm her death but I don't know their thinking. I dropped the ball on this because it came as a bit of a shock as they asked the question in front of Mum at the time - so I just made some excuse and dropped it but it's preying on my mind I have to get my head around this and the legal stuff behind it.

I'm hoping Mum won't die soon as she's not long been entrusted to their care.

I have a copy of a will that says my Mum wishes to be cremated but no further details. She always said to me she wanted to burried with my Dad's ashes with her. It's at odds with what she asked me but if the Will I hold is true then I have enough breadcrumbs with talking about this to her to work this out.

About all the other stuff you are asking, you have to dig back in your mind. You'll have to dig around what happened to other family members when they died, because the chances are, that your parents went to the funeral, also expect the same funeral directors and procedure to take place. Hopefully, the other family members who died were also in the same locality in which case, using the same funeral directors will help as they'll guide you and you'll be able to something similar and also they'll be able to suggest to you where your parents final resting place should be.

If there are many family members over generations in the same area, then the chances are your parents are thinking of the same place for them. So go with that.

If the family has been split across places, but you know that your parents have always held where they have been in their hearts, and you as a family are there, and all of their friends - and in future want to be by your parents - go with that.

I'm trying to sort out my will to avoid all of this for everyone going forward and I have lived in many places which have been my home where I have all my friends, and I've concluded that I need to be burried/cremated by the majority of my family including my Mum and my Dad, which are in one place - even though in life we didn't get on. It's an emotional decision but now because of genealogy. If we're all in one place, it'll be easier for future relatives to research.

If there is nothing in the copy will you've got, and you've not been given instructions, but have worked out their resting place, then just go what you believe they would want based on their personalities. If they were a church-goer - had a specific religion - follow that and talk to the Church/pastor etc person and they'll guide you. If they were people who are of undecided or even aethiest (which I believe to be a certain faith) then there are humanists who will cover this. If they were people who had no religion, no faith then services can be held specific for them and the funeral directors will help guide you.

If your parents are at the stage where they can share with you just a few bread-crumbs to help you about where they wish to be burried - that would be great. Take them there, to visit the old relatives, and then at some point just ask, would you like to be burried/cremated here?

What to do with the wake/party afterwards in their name - just hire a nice hotel/restaurant they loved and use that - invite everyone who attended the funeral for a get together, do a board with your parent, all the family pictures, work pictures - odd pictures from the war - whatever they did - and details of them that you did in the funeral on a specific board and then just focus on all the people their and the memories they hold for your family. AND I only learnt this later - do focus on what other people that you've never met but are there say about your family Mum and Dad. There may be a bit of confusion because your parents are your people - but I do wish I'd captured all the old guys who'd been in the war with Dad and shared what he was like before he was my Dad.

I'm a planner in advance. I'd like to make sure that my Mum's death is death will be handled properly and sensitively and she'll get the ending she wants. She's the generation that basically said - I'll give you the basics - and it's all up to you. We're all different, our generation make the decisions for our death before we die. Our parents didn't do that.

It's hard but just know that whatever your parents have put in place - and whatever you need to do afterwards - they've done it because they trust you and know that whatever you do will do the right thing.
Yes, it's rubbish that maybe throughout their life and even just up to the end of their life they never shared or even told us we were good children, but I think all all parents work on this level. They trust us as their kids to do the best for them. And we do.

Sorry Tilly13 I've gone way off track but hope some of this helps

 

[nitram]

Someone has suggested here that with PoA we can get visbility of the will in advance to ensure that we act according to the person's wishes. I also saw links suggesting that (I'll try and dig them out in the next few days), but when I contacted my Mum's solicitors I was told that wasn't the case

I have previously posted examples when sight of a will would help an attorney carry out the donor's wishes this is a more general statement.

 

[doingmybest1]

Thank you so much nitram for the link.

That's great as it comes from the law society itself.

Just looked at my passed saved links and I also found this link which confirms what you have shared:

Powers Of Attorney: Are Attorneys Entitled To See The Donor’s Will?

Wills are confidential documents that are usually only made public after someone’s death. However, if you have been named as an Attorney on someone’s behalf, you might believe it is necessary for you to see that person’s Will.

www.rochelegal.co.uk

This is not my thread but thank you for that as it helps me and hopefully Tilly13 and others.

 

[nitram]

@doingmybest1
For info

Scenarios of possible adverse outcomes which can occur without knowing the content of the will​

Jack’s case​

Jack has made a will giving his house (currently worth £300,000) to his nephew, Paul, and the residue (about £20,000) to charity. He also made a property and financial affairs lasting power of attorney, without any restrictions in favour of Paul. This has been registered with the Office of the Public Guardian.

Jack subsequently has a stroke and is no longer able to live in his own home. Paul decides that he must sell the house to pay for Jack’s care.

The effect of selling the house is that when Jack dies, the gift in the will to Paul fails and he gets nothing. The charity benefits from the whole of the estate. This was not what Jack intended.

However, if Paul is aware of the contents of the will, he can apply to the Court of Protection for either:

• a statutory will to be made so that Jack’s wishes are followed or​
• obtain an order for sale, which under the Mental Capacity Act 2005 ensures that the gift is saved. (Schedule 2, paragraphs 8 and 9 of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 enables the preservation of an interest in property, which is disposed of on behalf of a person who lacks mental capacity under a court order, where that interest in property is the subject of a gift under the person’s will.)​

June’s case​

June has made a will in which she gives her friend Margaret her premium bonds. At the time of making the will these are worth £500. June’s son David is the sole residuary beneficiary. David is unaware of the contents of the will.

June has dementia and lacks mental capacity to manage her finances. David is appointed as June’s deputy. He decides he should invest £49,500 of June’s money in premium bonds.

June dies. David discovers that Margaret will now get £50,000 premium bonds (much more than his mother ever intended) and he gets less than intended.

Had David been aware of the will, he would have invested his mother’s money differently, so as not to frustrate June’s succession plans.

 

[Tilly13]

Thank you all for your replies
I really appreciate them
@doingmybest1 thank you for all your insights / ideas.

 

[doingmybest1]

Hi Tilly13
Hope you are well. My apologies, I've read back my reply to you. It's sweet of you to say I've given you insights but looking back, all I did was share what happened with my family when Dad dad died leaving no instructions in his will other than "I want to be cremated". He didn't share any more details than that and left my poor Mum in a tail-spin of confusion of "what do I do, he's said nothing to me!". At which point me and my brothers took over everything as she was consumed by grief and just about functioning. Interestingly, my Mum has done the same saying "I want to be cremated". Perhaps this is something that solicitors say to their clients to put in their wills? Quite why there is just this statement and no other explanation is odd. I'm guessing it is a solicitor thing when drawing-up wills in the 1980s and 1990s?
When I drew-up my will recently, my solicitor said - do this as part of main will (financial stuff) but then attach a file to it saying your wishes about what you want to give away, and what happens to your body and funeral, so that if you change your mind about your burial/place to be burried etc - then it'll cost less to just update the requests bits outside of your will rather than the will itself.
Perhaps it's a "new thing"?

Apologies, I'm going to hijack your thread again.

Nitram, thank you for those examples as they highlight exactly what can happen to those of us with POA without visibility of a will or even if we have visibility of a will but with vague instructions who believe we are doing our best and try to carry out the wishes of those we are responsible for via the POA. Inadvertently, we then end up causing more issues that have to be unpicked on the death of our loved one(s) but can't do as Power of Attorney ceases on the death of our loved one(s).

Thank you for those examples as they are very real (premium bond particularly applies to my family) and as Tilly13 has put this thread out there for anyone to view, hopefully anyone else in this situation will come across her post and what she has shared, plus all the replies including yours and everyone else who has shared their experience.

All the best.