Hi, i am new here on talking point. My mother is 84, and is not diagnosed with dementia, but i have my doubts. The thing is she is so self absorbed and makes me think it is my duty as a daughter to be her friend and everything to her all the time. She is not easy to get along with in my opinion, and loves to show off and be top dog, and seems to delight on belittling me, she has no friends, doesn't want them, only family, and often says what a family i have , and i have a rubbish family, when things don't go her way. Tonight she rang to say her tv was playing up, and can my hubby go round to sort it, she was so hysterical and i was trying to help diagnose the problem, and all i got was , what a family iv'e got, because we said we didn't know what was wrong, she wanted us to just drop everything and go running. I am 55 and have my own health problems, and she is making me so stressed out. I wouldn't mind so much if she was in bad health physically, but she seems fitter than me. Please anyone advice wellcome
mother making me feel guilty
- Thread starter maisy moo
- Start date
We have the same mother & I'm 55 
With hindsight, a wonderful thing, it does sound like she has dementia. Looking back on my own mum I think she's had it for decades but been diagnosed about 3 years. People always think dementia is forgetting but I've found it is the personality disorders/changes like the demanding & only wanting daughter there for everything all the time.
With hindsight, a wonderful thing, it does sound like she has dementia. Looking back on my own mum I think she's had it for decades but been diagnosed about 3 years. People always think dementia is forgetting but I've found it is the personality disorders/changes like the demanding & only wanting daughter there for everything all the time.Hi maisy moo, love the name! Setting the dementia aside for the moment, you've probably been running these conversational scripts in some form for many years. Remember, if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. If your mum has these sayings that reliably press the guilt button you need to find a way to disarm her!
Make a list of these teeth-gritting sayings of hers in one column, and next to each one write what you usually do or say. Then think of a new response to each one. It helps to imagine yourself as a stranger, hearing her comment for the first time. Here are some examples:
Mum: what a family I have! I have a rubbish family!
Potential responses:
Hard luck, we're the best you've got
You're lucky to have us
Nobody's perfect
Don't be so hard on yourself
Cheer up, you know we love you
I'm sure you can come up with better ones. Don't worry about annoying her, the whole point is to break the habit. A bit of sulking will give you a breather.
My mum used: I just can't understand why you won't/can't/don't to which I learned to respond: I know you don't or (very naughty) Try harder.
She also said: other people's children do/don't / are kinder, nicer / do what their mothers tell them........ to which I responded: oh yes? well that's other people's lives. I'm not them. If she reached the stage of shouting that I was hard, cold and a bad daughter I just said I was sorry she felt that way and we could speak again when she was feeling better.
It's not easy, but it feels good to take back the power and refuse to own the criticism. I realise that you may feel mean playing mind games with someone who may have dementia. However, you are already playing her game and it is unhealthy for all concerned. You and your husband have to be the grownups. Decline to accept your mum's status as matriarch, but continue to respect her as your mum, while requiring respect in your own right. When my mother said she'd talk to me any way she liked because "I'm you mother!" I said that respect needed to work both ways.
I can't say we ever totally resolved it. I remember one phone call ending with "How DARE you speak to me like that! I will not have you argue with me! I'm your MOTHER!" I said I was ending the call to allow her to calm down. She rang straight back and ranted to the answering machine. Then she rang my brother and sobbed about how horrible I had been. Then he rang to read our father's script which was "DO NOT upset your MOTHER - whatever you said you must apologise because mother MUST not be upset. And DO NOT do it again." I was 51 and the eldest child, but we were still playing all the old games where Mother's feelings and needs override those of anyone else and where little girls who are not obedient and compliant must be corrected.
This was in the 6 months after my father died when I felt I could at last speak my mind because she couldn't take it out on him any more if I thwarted her. Thereafter she developed sudden onset dementia and lost her power to manipulate me. She's now a pussycat as she doesn't know how to pick fights and doesn't want to. Who knew that could happen?
Make a list of these teeth-gritting sayings of hers in one column, and next to each one write what you usually do or say. Then think of a new response to each one. It helps to imagine yourself as a stranger, hearing her comment for the first time. Here are some examples:
Mum: what a family I have! I have a rubbish family!
Potential responses:
Hard luck, we're the best you've got
You're lucky to have us
Nobody's perfect
Don't be so hard on yourself
Cheer up, you know we love you
I'm sure you can come up with better ones. Don't worry about annoying her, the whole point is to break the habit. A bit of sulking will give you a breather.
My mum used: I just can't understand why you won't/can't/don't to which I learned to respond: I know you don't or (very naughty) Try harder.
She also said: other people's children do/don't / are kinder, nicer / do what their mothers tell them........ to which I responded: oh yes? well that's other people's lives. I'm not them. If she reached the stage of shouting that I was hard, cold and a bad daughter I just said I was sorry she felt that way and we could speak again when she was feeling better.
It's not easy, but it feels good to take back the power and refuse to own the criticism. I realise that you may feel mean playing mind games with someone who may have dementia. However, you are already playing her game and it is unhealthy for all concerned. You and your husband have to be the grownups. Decline to accept your mum's status as matriarch, but continue to respect her as your mum, while requiring respect in your own right. When my mother said she'd talk to me any way she liked because "I'm you mother!" I said that respect needed to work both ways.
I can't say we ever totally resolved it. I remember one phone call ending with "How DARE you speak to me like that! I will not have you argue with me! I'm your MOTHER!" I said I was ending the call to allow her to calm down. She rang straight back and ranted to the answering machine. Then she rang my brother and sobbed about how horrible I had been. Then he rang to read our father's script which was "DO NOT upset your MOTHER - whatever you said you must apologise because mother MUST not be upset. And DO NOT do it again." I was 51 and the eldest child, but we were still playing all the old games where Mother's feelings and needs override those of anyone else and where little girls who are not obedient and compliant must be corrected.
This was in the 6 months after my father died when I felt I could at last speak my mind because she couldn't take it out on him any more if I thwarted her. Thereafter she developed sudden onset dementia and lost her power to manipulate me. She's now a pussycat as she doesn't know how to pick fights and doesn't want to. Who knew that could happen?
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hi Maisy Moo welcome to the forum.
The term narcissism could apply to your mother, in addition to early dementia (if she is suffering from it).
Narcissists must have the world revolving around them and their needs and wants and do not seem to have the capacity to consider the needs of others, or the effect that their constant demands are having on other people. When their desires are thwarted, they can resort to what's called narcissistic rage.
Have a read of this blog, it may "ring a few bells" even if what's being described is more at the extreme end of narcissism. All the traits are there, you can pick out the ones that apply.
http://postcardstoanarcissist.wordpress.com/characteristics-of-narcissistic-mothers/
Some people are like this all their life, but it's not so noticeable to family as they are independent and can handle their affairs well. But as their world closes in with early dementia and the loss of capacity, they can become more like this, as fear of being able to cope and be mistress of their own little world hits home.
Setting some boundaries at this early stage will be helpful. There are emergencies that you need to respond to, and others that can wait like TV dysfunctions.
Sometimes I think the universe tries to even things up, so that people who have wielded power over others end up powerless by the end of their life, just like Katrine describes with her Mum.
welcome to the forum.The term narcissism could apply to your mother, in addition to early dementia (if she is suffering from it).
Narcissists must have the world revolving around them and their needs and wants and do not seem to have the capacity to consider the needs of others, or the effect that their constant demands are having on other people. When their desires are thwarted, they can resort to what's called narcissistic rage.
Have a read of this blog, it may "ring a few bells" even if what's being described is more at the extreme end of narcissism. All the traits are there, you can pick out the ones that apply.
http://postcardstoanarcissist.wordpress.com/characteristics-of-narcissistic-mothers/
Some people are like this all their life, but it's not so noticeable to family as they are independent and can handle their affairs well. But as their world closes in with early dementia and the loss of capacity, they can become more like this, as fear of being able to cope and be mistress of their own little world hits home.
Setting some boundaries at this early stage will be helpful. There are emergencies that you need to respond to, and others that can wait like TV dysfunctions.
Sometimes I think the universe tries to even things up, so that people who have wielded power over others end up powerless by the end of their life, just like Katrine describes with her Mum.
Hi, clareglen and katrine, thanks for your reply's. Actually i do think my mother has been not right for years, my father died 4 years ago, and she used to get at him all the time, and was always phoning me up complaining that he was upsetting her, and she was going to leave him. Actually they seperated several times when they were younger, and she has always been quite hysterical about things. I do think she was jealous if i spent too much time with him, and liked everything to be about her. I have brothers but they have their own problems, and are no help to her at all, and so hence her oppinion that she has a rubbish family, but i have done a lot for her and i find her attitude quite insulting.
Clareglen, How do you cope with your mother? you are right it is not that her memory is so bad, it is her childish impatience, and demanding nature that is the problem.She recently sold her very nice comfortable bungalow, because she wanted to be near me, and now lives in a small house with stairs, I wasn't happy with her choice, but she wouldn't listen and now she is hinting that she might sell up and tittle off down south, because i don't visit her enough. She has a habit about buying and selling houses that goes way back, and lost loads of my dads money satisfying her obsession, I have told her she needs to settle herself, and i won't help her move again.
Clareglen, How do you cope with your mother? you are right it is not that her memory is so bad, it is her childish impatience, and demanding nature that is the problem.She recently sold her very nice comfortable bungalow, because she wanted to be near me, and now lives in a small house with stairs, I wasn't happy with her choice, but she wouldn't listen and now she is hinting that she might sell up and tittle off down south, because i don't visit her enough. She has a habit about buying and selling houses that goes way back, and lost loads of my dads money satisfying her obsession, I have told her she needs to settle herself, and i won't help her move again.
Katrine, thanks so much for your good idea's I will do that , make a list and learn some good reply's to her comments. My mother also compares me with others like you, and says things like I see other mothers and daughters are very close, and they see their mother everyday, and things like isn't she a nice person, she's like a daughter to me. She even makes excuses for me because i don't own my own home, like she has had some lovely houses in the past you know, and likes to draw attention to my failures, makes me feel so small
Maisy Moo, I visit my mum 6 days out of 7 (she is in a care home) and am trying to reduce my visits
Everyone else in the care home has relatives who visit every single day, stay for at least half a day or take their loved one out for the day. And bring small children with them.
I am not sure where I am supposed to get the required supply of infants from...
Everyone else in the care home has relatives who visit every single day, stay for at least half a day or take their loved one out for the day. And bring small children with them.
I am not sure where I am supposed to get the required supply of infants from...
Hi moonflower, You made me laugh about the required infants. I think you are doing a good thing visiting her so much, and she is still not happy. I would probably visit my mother more if she was in a care home, because i would feel sorry for her more knowing she had lost her power, and i could do a bit of boasting for a change, she would definately hate that
I would like to reduce my visits - but I moved her 500 miles to be close to me so unless I visit or OH does she knows nobody, so I do feel responsible
Also, OH feels sorry for her (she is nice to him!) so if I try to get a day off visiting he tends to say he'll go...
At the moment I am working on getting it down to 5 days a week, with OH visiting one day and no visit one day.
Whatever I do she isn't happy. She would be happy if I could wind the clock back 10 years - anything else won't do
Also, OH feels sorry for her (she is nice to him!) so if I try to get a day off visiting he tends to say he'll go...
At the moment I am working on getting it down to 5 days a week, with OH visiting one day and no visit one day.
Whatever I do she isn't happy. She would be happy if I could wind the clock back 10 years - anything else won't do
To all those who visit everyday hats off to you. I would be an emotional wreck. The consultant who diagnosed my mother gave me permission to have a life. I took him up on the offer. I would be no good for my mother if I got ill with stress!!
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Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
I'm afraid I don't feel I cope very well. I lose patience every day. Every day I try to be patient but then she'll push a button & I explode but it is the only way I get her to comply by losing my temper. Nothing else works. Then I feel guilty. My mum lives next door & as well as getting her up & putting her to bed, lighting her gas fire/heating on, putting TV on (she's forgot how to do these things), making her lunch & making tea (forgot how to do this too) & going in to give her 6 times a day with pills & taking her shopping & to the hairdresser, chiropodist & hospital etc., etc., she knocks on the wall when she wants me which is normally when I'm on loo, in the bath, even if I've told her I'm going on loo don't knock. She doesn't think I might be doing something, she wants me, she knocks & my daughter says I jump when she knocks. She's going into respite week on Fri. I only intend visiting her once or twice at most to take fresh clothes. It's the mental torture/nastiness rather than physical duties that do my head in. Although I have to say she's started on Memantine (after trying other meds which had bad side effects & didn't work) & it does seem to be having a positive effect on her mood so not as much nastiness last couple of weeks.
Seriously - life is not what it was. Most daughters now work, live away from home and have their own children later, so are more likely to have young children at home while balancing everything else. Families are smaller so the work cannot be spread around. Caring for our own parents is less than ideal. I am lucky that I have been able to place my Mum in a lovely care home, but I still get the guilt trip...
Maybe she could have managed at home a bit longer, is she really as bad as they tell me etc etc...
I have come to the conclusion that if I continued to balance 3 kids (Single Mum - A levels and GCSEs this year, 12 yr old with bullying issues) , a job and visiting twice or three times a week I would go mad! I am off to the Docs in a couple of weeks as even though I am not a full time carer it has affected me badly. I am over stressed, exhausted and tearful a lot of the time. We have to let ourselves have time for "us" otherwise we cannot function properly.
Sorry to moan - I just wish that Social Services would consider the carers more. I have no idea how you manage to look after someone with Dementia at the same time as trying to live your own life. There is a real need for daily help and respite care.
Well done to all of you who do this daily. You are beyond strong!
Maybe she could have managed at home a bit longer, is she really as bad as they tell me etc etc...
I have come to the conclusion that if I continued to balance 3 kids (Single Mum - A levels and GCSEs this year, 12 yr old with bullying issues) , a job and visiting twice or three times a week I would go mad! I am off to the Docs in a couple of weeks as even though I am not a full time carer it has affected me badly. I am over stressed, exhausted and tearful a lot of the time. We have to let ourselves have time for "us" otherwise we cannot function properly.
Sorry to moan - I just wish that Social Services would consider the carers more. I have no idea how you manage to look after someone with Dementia at the same time as trying to live your own life. There is a real need for daily help and respite care.
Well done to all of you who do this daily. You are beyond strong!
I'm not though, tearful a lot of the time, I could just burst into tears, I try not to. I nearly did today after having a tooth extracted & being in agony all week. I'm a cancer patient too, carers syndrome I call it. But I have used it as an excuse with my mother to get out of doing things like taking her out in her wheelchair 'I haven't got the energy' well it is true.I have no idea how you manage to look after someone with Dementia at the same time as trying to live your own life. There is a real need for daily help and respite care.
Well done to all of you who do this daily. You are beyond strong!
My Mum - 83, no dementia, though - often tries to make me feel guilty because I don't, apparently, do as much for her as her friends' daughters do for their elderly widowed mothers.
I am constantly being compared, unfavourably, to the daughter of her childhood friend Jessie by being told that "Denise has always lived with her Mum and is Jessie's full-time carer and do you know, Denise has never married or ever had a boyfriend because she's been looking after her Mum."
I am constantly being compared, unfavourably, to the daughter of her childhood friend Jessie by being told that "Denise has always lived with her Mum and is Jessie's full-time carer and do you know, Denise has never married or ever had a boyfriend because she's been looking after her Mum."
I'd be so tempted to say "what an awful shame for Denise" but have learned buttoning it leads to a calmer life.
Hi Clareglen, how are you today? you sound a bit depressed , it must be so hard for you doing all the caring when you are not feeling well yourself. Hopefully you will get a good rest when mum goes into respite today, how long is she there for? do you have any other family support? I am going through menapause at moment, and find my moods are up and down, and i often don't have energy emotionally to cope with my mothers demands. I have a young rescue lurcher, who needs lots of exercise , i told mum i could come and see her when i walk the dog, its a good 45 min walk to her house, and i thought i could kill two birds with one stone, but she said she doesn't want me taking the dog there, as she has just got new carpet, so after walking the dog i'm tired and can't face walking back again alone. The thing is my mother is not housebound, she gets out and about, but rarely visits me. I just feel she uses her age as an excuse for me to lavish my attention on her
Hi Cobden, Your mum sounds just like mine, I too feel it must be an awful shame for Denise, like Noorza said. Does your mam need caring for , or is she just attention seeking like mine?
Seriously - life is not what it was. Most daughters now work, live away from home and have their own children later, so are more likely to have young children at home while balancing everything else. Families are smaller so the work cannot be spread around. Caring for our own parents is less than ideal. I am lucky that I have been able to place my Mum in a lovely care home, but I still get the guilt trip...
Maybe she could have managed at home a bit longer, is she really as bad as they tell me etc etc...
I have come to the conclusion that if I continued to balance 3 kids (Single Mum - A levels and GCSEs this year, 12 yr old with bullying issues) , a job and visiting twice or three times a week I would go mad! I am off to the Docs in a couple of weeks as even though I am not a full time carer it has affected me badly. I am over stressed, exhausted and tearful a lot of the time. We have to let ourselves have time for "us" otherwise we cannot function properly.
Sorry to moan - I just wish that Social Services would consider the carers more. I have no idea how you manage to look after someone with Dementia at the same time as trying to live your own life. There is a real need for daily help and respite care.
Well done to all of you who do this daily. You are beyond strong!
Hi Kazzy, you seem to have a lot on your plate too with having a young family, its true what you say about modern times, and finding time and energy for your aging parents. My mother never had to look after her mother , she was the youngest and her elder sister was around a lot, so it doesn't feel fair somehow, she got to do what she liked at my age
