MIL has dementia, social worker taken bank statement

[Duddlepukk]

My mother in law was diagnosed with vascular dementia a year ago and has gradually declined to the point of double incontinence, cannot walk or support her weight, can hardly due to disphagia (I think that's what it's called).
After a long stay in hospital, she got a social worker and spent a couple of months in the local care home. After coming out last week, my brother in law is now caring for her 24hrs a day with carers coming in 3 times a day. He currently gets a payment for this.
Is the above the reason why the social worker has requested (and taken) my mother in law's bank statement, and also taken details of my brother in law's?
I don't know the ins and outs but it doesn't seem right to me - she's not even had a health assessment as the social worker is blocking it.
I don't trust the pct or the local authority and my BIL has got more than enough on his plate, so I want to learn as much as possible to help the family if possible.
Thanks.

 

[clareglen]

Do you mean brother in law is getting carer's allowance as the payment? He's entitled to this. However, the carers coming in 3 times a day are not free and the social worker has probably taken mother in law's bank statement to do a financial assessment. If she has assets of more than £23,250, I think, she will have to pay for the carers. If no assets then she will get the care free. She should be getting Attendance Allowance at the higher rate, as she sounds bad enough for it. I think people are entitled to 12 weeks free care (you say having spent couple of months in care home), so maybe this allocation is up. The social worker sounds like she is doing the assessment by taking the bank statement. From what you describe it sounds obvious by the issues that she needs cared for & the fact that carer's are coming in 3 times a day means there has been some health assessment done at some point so not sure what you mean by blocking it. Hope this helps.

 

[Ann Mac]

I may be wrong, but whilst, if a financial assessment is being carried out I can understand a SW asking for details/proof of savings and accounts for the person with dementia, I am sure that they have no right to ask for bank account details of the carers, in this case, your brother in law? Why would they have ? Its not the carers responsibility to pay from their own funds, the carers income plays no part in what financial help the person with dementia may be entitled to - so why would anyone need to know about their bank accounts? If there is a query about your brother in law being paid, if its from your Mum in laws funds, then I doubt even then if its the SW's responsibility to examine his account details.

Hopefully, someone will be along soon who knows if this is right or not

 

[Duddlepukk]

Thank you for your comments. Even though I think it's wrong for them to be snooping, my assumption was that they were entitled to do this.
With regards to the health assessment, as far as we know, nothing was done except cursory checks to discharge her into the care home. The PCT have told my brother in law that the social worker has to refer his mum for the NHS CHC and the social worker has basically turned around and said no he won't do it as she won't get it.

 

[cragmaid]

It sound to me like Mum has had a financial assessment to ascertain if she is entitled to help with care costs. I can only presume that your BIL has access to Mum's money and they have checked that he has no other income before paying him Carers Allowance ( or at least that his income is below permitted levels. This is not snooping, this is making sure that Mum gets all the help, phsically and financially that she needs.
They will have done checks while Mum was in the care home and the assessments will have shown that your Mum's illness is not severe enough to justify her getting Continuous Health Care Funding.

 

[crazyfish]

It sound to me like Mum has had a financial assessment to ascertain if she is entitled to help with care costs. I can only presume that your BIL has access to Mum's money and they have checked that he has no other income before paying him Carers Allowance ( or at least that his income is below permitted levels. This is not snooping, this is making sure that Mum gets all the help, phsically and financially that she needs.
They will have done checks while Mum was in the care home and the assessments will have shown that your Mum's illness is not severe enough to justify her getting Continuous Health Care Funding.

Social services CANNOtT make ANY decisions as regards CHC as they are simply not qualified and it is not in their remit to make any comment on somebody's health requirements.
If this was a financial assessment then it should have been accompanied by a formal written request for information not just some SW demanding bank details.
As for the SW who removed the bank statements I would demand them back immediately as without any formal written request explaining what they are needed for you are concerned that they may be being used illegally.
If they are not returned ASAP you will have to report it as theft.
As I have mentioned many times here NO financial info should be given to ANYONE without good reason.
There are unfortunately people out there who will use this sort of info for there own advantage including SW.
Check your bank account regularly if you find any discrepancies report it to the police.
Don't take the words of any SW at face value get every request for anything in writing and get that checked out before agreeing to anything.
Trust no one.
Mick

 

[retiredcopper]

It sound to me like Mum has had a financial assessment to ascertain if she is entitled to help with care costs. I can only presume that your BIL has access to Mum's money and they have checked that he has no other income before paying him Carers Allowance ( or at least that his income is below permitted levels. This is not snooping, this is making sure that Mum gets all the help, phsically and financially that she needs.
They will have done checks while Mum was in the care home and the assessments will have shown that your Mum's illness is not severe enough to justify her getting Continuous Health Care Funding.

Firstly, if a financial assessment (for LA funding towards mum's care) has been carried out by the SW he should not have taken any bank statements away with him - both assessments that MIL had done were done in my presence & they handed me back the paperwork after they had noted the figures down. Neither should they have to see the brother-in-law's bank statements for any reason. He is not liable towards paying towards his mum's care & the social worker doesn't do the means testing for Carer's allowance - DWP do that - so no financial assessment should have been done by the SW on him.

Secondly - as Crazyfish says, the social worker cannot make decisions as to whether or not to screen someone for eligibility for CHC - it should be done automatically before she left hospital or when she got to the care home & brother-in-law should be given the opportunity to attend it. Sometimes they slip through the net in which case you can ask for her to be screened for eligibility now. Social workers try to get away with not doing it sometimes (they tried to tell us MIL had been screened last month & the care home told them that no one had been to the home to do it - they were not happy to be found out in a lie). If they have done the screening (without giving your BIL the opportunity to attend) he should have been sent a copy of the checklist so he knows on what grounds she failed to meet eligibility. He needs to either ask for the screening to be carried out or ask for the completed checklist (he can then ask for a review in 6 months time if mum's condition deteriorates).

Finally - if your MIL has funds over £23,250 & she is being cared for at home she may still be entitled to some LA funding towards her care - it's on a sliding scale - my MIL had £25,000 in savings & she got approximately 60% of her care paid for by the LA while she was cared for at home. The rules for funding change though if your MIL has to go into a nursing home permanently.

 

[cragmaid]

I provided the LA with copies of bank statements when my mother was having her financial assessment. They were entitled to ask for sight of them and it was immaterial whether I gave them copies or they copied the detail from them...after all the bank details were clearly marked on same and the details were required to complete the Direct Debit forms to meet her part of care costs. The actual accounts are ones which are held jointly by Mum and me. At no time did I have to provide any information relating to my private accounts.

 

[crazyfish]

I provided the LA with copies of bank statements when my mother was having her financial assessment. They were entitled to ask for sight of them and it was immaterial whether I gave them copies or they copied the detail from them...after all the bank details were clearly marked on same and the details were required to complete the Direct Debit forms to meet her part of care costs. The actual accounts are ones which are held jointly by Mum and me. At no time did I have to provide any information relating to my private accounts.

That may be ok when a formal request for a financial assessment is requested and agreed by all parties.
But Duddlepukk has had no formal request for a financial assessment .
In fact they have had no reason given by the SW as to why they have removed personal bank statements from their possession.
SW are not entitled to see any personal details it's up to the individual to decide if it's in their best interests to provide them.

If you want to give your bank details to anyone who happens to come and ask for them then that's up to the individual.
But it's like going out of the house leaving the door open and asking everyone to just help themselves.
No SW has the right to remove any personal information without giving a proper written request detailing why they are needed and who will have access to those details.
I personally wouldn't trust anyone with my personal details or those of any of my close relatives .
It's to easy these days for people to use these details for their own purposes .
Please everyone who reads this DO NOT give any financial details without good reason.
Mick

 

[cragmaid]

This is my last comment as I feel that there is little more I can add other than to mention that:
Duddlepukk has no more right to ask for information from the SW than you or I, unless she has permission from her MIL, usually required in writing, but vocally can sometimes suffice. There is no mention of her ( or anyone else) holding a LPA, conferring power to make requests for assessment or care services and, despite the poor old lady's symptoms, there has been no mention of an agreed lack of capacity, therefore even the BIL is only acting as a caring relative and not as a legally empowered representative.

 

[MLM]

I don't understand why the SW would take the bank statement. In the local authority I am on my social work placement with (I'm a final year student) we do the assessment of need if requested to do one and then a financial person comes out to do the financial assessment and does not take paperwork away with them, just takes notes from what is provided for them to see then goes away, does all the calculations with it all and checks it all through and then notifies if a financial contribution has to be made or not to the care. I don't see any reason why it would need to work any other way!?

 

[Brogues]

Social workers do not do financial assessments, they try verbally to ascertain a level of "wealth" Social workers are NOT qualified on who qualifies for CHC and absolutely no actual statements should be taken ever.

 

[retiredcopper]

This is my last comment as I feel that there is little more I can add other than to mention that:
Duddlepukk has no more right to ask for information from the SW than you or I, unless she has permission from her MIL, usually required in writing, but vocally can sometimes suffice. There is no mention of her ( or anyone else) holding a LPA, conferring power to make requests for assessment or care services and, despite the poor old lady's symptoms, there has been no mention of an agreed lack of capacity, therefore even the BIL is only acting as a caring relative and not as a legally empowered representative.

I think the OP is just trying to get advice from the forum to pass on to her BIL. Our SS allow for someone to have representative with them at a financial assessment & it doesn't have to be someone with LPA. I'm assuming their SS must be happy to deal with BIL otherwise why have they also seen the need (wrongly) to take his bank details?

 

[retiredcopper]

Social workers do not do financial assessments, they try verbally to ascertain a level of "wealth" Social workers are NOT qualified on who qualifies for CHC and absolutely no actual statements should be taken ever.

You are right to say Social workers don't do the financial assessments but if all LA's work the same as ours they pass on the details to their financial department & they send one of their staff out to do the actual assessment (as MLM says). The social worker has no part in calculating the amount someone pays towards their care package and the financial assessor has no part in assessing what care package is required - both roles are totally separate. Also, as you say, social workers are not qualified on who is eligible for CHC however some take it upon themselves to decide that there is no point doing a checklist for eligibility for CHC based on their 'previous experience' of their past cases and this is totally wrong & misleading to those who need care and their carers.

 

[MLM]

In the one I work under though I wouldn't take any paperwork off anyone. You don't need to do that as the financial assessor does the assessment face to face in the person's house anyway. That's the sensible way to do it because they often need to look through a lot of paperwork!

 

[MLM]

CHC is done differently but still doesn't involve taking away any paperwork as a social worker

 

[Brogues]

In the one I work under though I wouldn't take any paperwork off anyone. You don't need to do that as the financial assessor does the assessment face to face in the person's house anyway. That's the sensible way to do it because they often need to look through a lot of paperwork!

CORRECT I was told when they did mine they would not even be taking copies

 

[MLM]

It worries me that social workers may be taking people's personal documents, not necessarily with bad intentions, but against good practice, unnecessarily, and without proper policies and procedures in place for protecting the information in these documents. I wouldn't want my personal documents, bank statements or anything else with my personal information on, going missing and potentially falling into the hands of someone who DOES have bad intentions.

As a student social worker I collect the information I require in the least intrusive way possible. Being happy to hand them over to someone authorised to handle them and knowing they'll be stored appropriately and returned is one thing, but with no explanation of why they need to be taken away or how they will be used and protected... I'm not very happy to hear that it is happening! Especially when people will often feel if they do not "comply" then they will not receive the help they need. I think being open and honest is a must for social workers or any other professional working with such sensitive issues and information.

 

[OAP]

regarding social workers

I just joined this forum as a carer for my mother and I'm interested to learn that others have not had good dealings with social workers, although they are not all the same.
My mother has an S/W and when she had an episode recently where she was in an uncontrollable temper and was striking out at me, I called the S/W for help. What a big mistake! My mother was confused and said I had tried to hit her, the S/W took my mother into respite care, invoking the mental health act regarding restraining a person against their wishes and basically blew the whole situation out of proportion. I live with my dog at my mum's home, at her request. The S/W and her manager have said I should leave and become homeless or get rid of my dog as I'd then be able to get a flat, as in their opinion, there is friction between my mum and I. They obviously don't know much about dementia and how it affects moods. They are putting a full package of care in place before allowing her to come home at my mother's expense and banning me from caring for mum at all.
Has anyone had any such problems with Social Workers and what have they been able to do about it?
I have contacted a solicitor, my mother's own doctor and my local councillor whom I am going to ask for their help.

 

[MLM]

I can sort of see where the social worker is coming from but it sounds like they are going about it the wrong way. It might be better for your relationship if you live apart if there is physical aggression involved, but of course you have the choice to tolerate that if you wish. It is very difficult when she is accusing you of hitting her though as there is a duty of care towards your mum and how can they be sure you aren't hitting her? If she was in a care home and accused a staff member of hitting her what would your reaction be (if it was the first time she had ever said something like that), would you believe her or would you feel it was confusion? Would you let it slide or want to keep her away from that staff member?

I'm not saying I think you should not care for your mum at all though, but it might be a relief of pressure on you both to not live together and that is probably where the social worker is coming from. However, I do think it sounds like they think it is going to be easy for you to move out and not just practically but emotionally that may not be the case so I think it is unfair to put that pressure on you in an already difficult situation.