imsoblue

[imsoblue]

The day of the Family Meeting
Day began with me calling SIL, married to OH brother who is the lawyer who drew of POA and our wills. Reminded her of the family meeting that night and wanted to give her the times. We meet at Son #1 house alone so OH won’t see animosity, be embarrassed, or anything that would hurt him. We then go to my house and present a united front to OH. SIL said Brother had mentioned it but she would contact him. Later that morning I got a text saying he couldn’t make the meeting and that OH “should be allowed to talk to a lawyer. I do not think that should be prevented. Also I feel you should include OH in any meeting about him. And I am not convinced that he has dementia. I provided That One the info on a lawyer.” He could have slapped me in the face and it wouldn’t have hurt that much. I became a basket case. I sent the benign response of “Thanks for your thoughts.” Didn’t add “You have just been removed from my life.” Wife too.

Sent a children-wide text announcing time and date and the flack began among the SS (Sweet Sisters) and my two boys even threw some stuff right back at the Other One. Her rude text read “I will only attend meetings that dad attends and where the purpose of the meeting is shared. This the first I have heard that this meeting was scheduled and am unable to attend.” L I A R. She had called Son #1 to discuss what was happening so he wrote back “You know the purpose” Son#2 wrote back “And ignored the request for your availability.” She didn’t stop “I will not attend meetings behind my dad’s back. The purpose was not shared. I have heard guesses and assumptions from a few people.” I wrote” Meeting beforehand was suggested by the social worker. It’s nothing new. We did it last time to spare OH see animosity or ugliness within the family. We then presented a united front to him (U need a sitter). It was to protect him and his feeling that we hammer things out. So Other One you have attended a meeting behind his back before and I thought it was beneficial to everyone. U voiced no problem then and U did not answer when a meeting date was requested. In fact, you never answer. Your husband suggested we reconvene 1-3 months to re-evaluate the situation. Texting is not the solution and neither is a phone in. I’m sorry for those who didn’t understand. When can U meet Other One? Do we need to come to your town? We are meeting tonight and OH will be present against my better judgement.”

And at the same time I was texts from That One, unaware there was a meeting. (She said she’d be in town Thursday.) Also, OH is telling her she doesn’t need to stay (HE HAS Dementia!!) Said she wasn’t on board with her dad not being in room, nothing to hide. I responded there were things being hidden (a lawyer being called to remove me from POA.) She ranted and raved so much! I said “Perhaps you can bring him home with you tonight?” Sassy reply “Well let’s talk about that. What do you want to happen? He is always welcome to visit me but if you are looking for a permanent solution say it. Is that what you want to talk about tonight.”

So that was my day before my evening meeting. I was a dishrag. I keep you angels in my head. I hope to write about the meeting later. This has been long enough.

 

[Rolypoly]

What a start to your day. Sounds like you could have done with a stiff drink before the sun was up over the yard arm! It’s hard enough to arrange a multi person meeting without everyone being difficult (that’s the polite word!). Makes you want to stand and scream.

I await your next post with anticipation.

 

[Amethyst59]

Oh my life. I thought my husband’s family were bad enough...I think yours might be worse!

 

[carolynp]

Yes I agree with both TP-ers above. Dreadful lead up to the meeting you had been anxious about anyway. Mind you, I feel everyone is revealing their true colours and - despite your agony - you are gaining an enormous amount of information. You will, I hope, be able to plan a way forward for yourself after this. I await your account of the meeting itself to see how it all played out face to face.

So helpful (not!) of OHs lawyer bro to give you the benefit of his no doubt vast experience in dementia diagnosis! And it means, unfortunately, you are in difficulties regarding OHs legal capacity to change the existing arrangements. No support likely from lawyer bro!

You are the only one far sighted and tender enough to be trying to protect your OHs long term interests - and the only one not being listened to! But I await your account of the meeting before being able to say more.

 

[imsoblue]

Meeting began at 5pm. Me, Sons #1 and #2, OH, and That One. The Other One was on the phone. My sons were the best ever. There was screaming, cursing (that was me), crying, accusing, storming out (that was me again ...and I know someone told me NOT to do that), and crying. So first question to OH from a son. Why are you going to see a lawyer? Now he had told me last week he wanted me removed from POA. His answer: I want a divorce. That was new!!! I was shocked. Didn't think he was serious all those threats ago. Son asked why? Because she won't let me get back surgery. Sigh, there it is. Dementia. November 2016 we went to a back surgeon to correct his shuffling and after tests, surgeon said, "You need to see a neurologist." I knew the problem wasn't his back then and that's when Parkinsons, Freezing of Gait, and finally dementia all followed. Then his daughter, That One joined us in doctor visits and she and OH wanted to return to back doctor. I said I didn't believe/knew back surgery wasn't the answer. How could he recover if he couldn't even walk from the FOG? His problem was his brain, not his back. After a visit to his main doctor whose answer to the question, "do you think OH should have back surgery was NO NO NO NO NO I was really against it. We did go to back doctor again (insisted That One) and doctor refused to operate. Whew. But that's why he wanted the divorce? Son said, Mom didn't say NO, your doctor did. So again, why divorce? "She doesn't want to be a caretaker." He has told me that before. Son said, "no one wants to be a caretaker." I never ever voiced that to him. I said he accuses me of that regularly. Accuses me of wishing he would fall down. Total projection on me. Sons said she does so much for you including wiping up your ---incontinence. No she doesn't he said. I almost lost it then. He asked when did you do that? Son even answered for me. Sunday! I said I cook, I serve, I get you out of bed, get you dressed, pull you up out of your chair, etc. It was harrowing for me. (Again I will say that he and That One have a personality disorder that if they say it, it is true. Therefore if OH says "you do nothing for me" it is true and he is independent. Unfortunately that tis not true.
Then the fur began to fly. Sons and I went in with "where will you go?" He will live alone in a house in town. Okay, you can't. Come on Sweet Sisters tell him the truth. Come on girls, tell him. Finally, it got established that he couldn't do that and he flat out said, "Well I disagree." Then we went on to "so where will you go?" and specifically to That One "Tell your dad where he will go." "I told him," she said. No, tell him now so I can hear it. "We talked about it today. He knows he can't live with me." NOOOO, tell him so I can see him hear it. And she began to hem and haw, "we have options" "we will have meetings" "we will get together" NO we screamed. This is what this meeting is about. Tell him the truth. I swear I could have pulled that 40 year old's teeth out faster than she would answer. She mumbled "assisted living" It was so quick I couldn't get in my comment of "he is way beyond assisted living." But the Other One on the phone finally spoke up and said "Dad you will go into a nursing home with 24 hour care." There's the elephant in the room. You are going straight into a nursing home when you leave this house. He was shocked. So we pulled the main reason for the meeting. Mom is in charge and everything goes through her. That One got ugly with "what do you want me to do" I answered You ask me before you go off doing things behind my back. Like a lawyer to divorce me??? Did you think what the next steps would be? He would leave our home and the family he's known for 22 years and be put in a nursing home? That One you were NOT looking out for his best interest with this. Like son said, Mom is always having to say NO to That One's great ideas which makes her the bad guy leading to resentment from OH. So essentially That One needs to keep quiet. Total support of ME. There will be no rehab hospital or stair lift. But there were digs left. There were comments That One said in reference to me calling OH's brother the lawyer. I learned that brother deceived me. And even his sweet wife ratted me out to That One when I had talked to her broken down in pain and hurt regarding That One's treatment of me. (That's two people off my Christmas card list. Really off my radar entirely.) OH then began to cry like a broken down man. I have never seen him cry. I think reality had finally sunk it and he was sad. He said he didn't realize how much my boys loved him. I tried joking with him saying they knew that if he left, they would be stuck with me. I suggested a group hug and we all came together in tears. That One left shortly and Son#1 followed her out the door and they both came in 30 minutes later so they were still talking and making amends. I cannot make amends. I'm done with SS. Both of them said I talk down to him. That One in a text and the Other One on the phone. Hmmm spouses don't have times like that? Do y'all ever have a difficult time being sweet and kind all the time. So when the Other One said something from the phone (which totally aggravated me to begin with that she was too busy to attend) that I needed to not speak like that I said in a growling, trying not to cry voice "OO, has your husband ever threatened to divorce you?" No. "Then shut up (there was some curses.) It was more about the whole day, the whole thing, my whole new life. It hurts. And I stormed out...for effect. Son #2 said he looked at OH to see his reaction to my outburst. Sadly, there was none. But, then, I'm stuck out of the room. I got tissues to make it look like that's why I left and returned. So I won the battle and I lost the war. OH is in our room while I am in another. No life. Why did I fight for him. I had to protect him from himself and his stupid daughter. Sorry, I'm more than overwhelmed.

 

[imsoblue]

Tonight I hear him on the phone WOW, it's the Other One. I assume he called her. I don't think she and That One have talked. I tried to listen. I got sentences like "they saved me" and "I bet you're glad I'm not moving to (your town).
I am slightly relieved from the stress. Son #2 drew up divorce papers for me before the meeting. One friend laughed when I said OH is still here with me.
So I won the battle, but I lost the war. Am a caretaker to a demented, physically handicapped overweight strange and sometimes mean man. What was I thinking.

 

[imsoblue]

Just noticed this from OH brother the lawyer's text. Full text on "You've got to laugh". Exact quote: I am not convinced that he has dementia. I provided (his daughter) the infer on a lawyer."
If he didn't have dementia, why couldn't he contact a lawyer himself? He has to have his daughter do this for him.

 

[karaokePete]

I have just read this thread @imsoblue and don’t really know what to say as your OH’s issues are more complex than anything I have to deal with and I don’t have family issues, as such, as our 5 offspring essentially ignore us unless they want something from us! At least they don’t over complicate issues for us, even if they never help in any real way.
One thing I can relate to is the ‘leaving you’ scenario. If I had a £ for every time my wife throws that one into the mix and then follows it up by expressing regret and professing undying love I’d be a wealthy man. I don’t think they know how hurtful it is. I used to breakdown and ask her why that was her solution after all that I do for her. I then cottoned on to the fact that it is the dementia talking and started offering to help her pack her bags if she’d like. She has never taken me up on the option. But Jeepers the emotional toll on me can be crippling at times; whilst she just forgets - until the next time. I know that some think that the PWD knows what they are saying and that they’re being manipulative, but I know full well that dementia has robbed my wife of the ability to do that. Oh well, I’ve never been told the dementia journey will be easy.
I hope things improve for you and my thoughts are with you.

 

[imsoblue]

Just noticed this from OH brother the lawyer's text. Full text on "You've got to laugh". Exact quote: I am not convinced that he has dementia. I provided (his daughter) the infer on a lawyer."
If he didn't have dementia, why couldn't he contact a lawyer himself? He has to have his daughter do this for him.

Yes I agree with both TP-ers above. Dreadful lead up to the meeting you had been anxious about anyway. Mind you, I feel everyone is revealing their true colours and - despite your agony - you are gaining an enormous amount of information. You will, I hope, be able to plan a way forward for yourself after this. I await your account of the meeting itself to see how it all played out face to face.

So helpful (not!) of OHs lawyer bro to give you the benefit of his no doubt vast experience in dementia diagnosis! And it means, unfortunately, you are in difficulties regarding OHs legal capacity to change the existing arrangements. No support likely from lawyer bro!

You are the only one far sighted and tender enough to be trying to protect your OHs long term interests - and the only one not being listened to! But I await your account of the meeting before being able to say more.

As Son #2 said, anything after the remark about OH not having dementia is invalid. He has lost all of our respect. Nothing he says is valid since he was so wrong on the diagnosis!

 

[imsoblue]

I have just read this thread @imsoblue and don’t really know what to say as your OH’s issues are more complex than anything I have to deal with and I don’t have family issues, as such, as our 5 offspring essentially ignore us unless they want something from us! At least they don’t over complicate issues for us, even if they never help in any real way.
One thing I can relate to is the ‘leaving you’ scenario. If I had a £ for every time my wife throws that one into the mix and then follows it up by expressing regret and professing undying love I’d be a wealthy man. I don’t think they know how hurtful it is. I used to breakdown and ask her why that was her solution after all that I do for her. I then cottoned on to the fact that it is the dementia talking and started offering to help her pack her bags if she’d like. She has never taken me up on the option. But Jeepers the emotional toll on me can be crippling at times; whilst she just forgets - until the next time. I know that some think that the PWD knows what they are saying and that they’re being manipulative, but I know full well that dementia has robbed my wife of the ability to do that. Oh well, I’ve never been told the dementia journey will be easy.
I hope things improve for you and my thoughts are with you.

KP, I am so sorry for what you are going through also! This is about the 4th time divorce has been mentioned. First was 3 months before diagnosis. It was a huge clue for me then. He began opening mail in my car, not addressed to him and I said "What are you doing?" He decided to sell our house and divorce me and I said well call your daughter. And he did. The next morning it was over. Yep, dementia before a diagnosis.
I regret That One couldn't recognize it was the dementia. That's what I'm up against. Ignorance.
Do you want your 5 to help? What could they do for you? Do they live nearby?

 

[Amethyst59]

I’m so sorry that you are going through this, @imsoblue. I have had similar problems with my husband’s family. But the main difference has been he has been frightened I will divorce him, rather than the reverse. But his children’s attitude was jus the same. I was not looking after their dad well enough/ speaking to him nicely all the time (and, as you say...sometimes that is a normal part of marriage!) but their immediate solution was a care home. I too, have shared things with his daughter especially, that have been used against me.
I’m going to ask a very personal question..and you don’t have to answer. What would be the financial implications if you divorced?
Despite all we have been through (and it is a lot!) I still love my husband. I did seriously consider just leaving him to his family. My life would have been ...well, my own again. But even in the turmoil I could see that if we got more help, and I could get some sleep, that we could get our relationship back on track again, for as long as dementia lets us have it.
But, and I know I could be wrong ...do you still want and need to be married? Was your husband ‘strange and mean’ before the dementia kicked in?
Thank goodness for your sons. I don’t know what I would have done without my children these last few months.

 

[canary]

Such a sad, sad, state of affairs.
I am truly sorry that his family has been so unsupportive, but at least you now know where the land lays. Do not expect your husband to remember the meeting accurately. Especially, he will probably not remember that if he divorces you he will have to go into a nursing home - he may even remember it as you threatening him with a nursing home.

I will mention that I have heard of several people whose husband with dementia has insisted on divorce and then, afterwards, the now ex-wife has continued looking out for them (I think they are saints).

Another question that you do not have to answer. How much are you prepared to fight to retain your marriage?

 

[70smand]

Wow! You really couldn’t make it up, could you?! As if life isn’t difficult enough!
I truly admire your strength and you have brought up two great sons by the sound of it.
Sorry for all the extra rubbish in your life - I think you’re fab. I think I will now consider Eastenders as light entertainment after this! Hope that’s not too flippant, I really don’t mean to be unkind.
Sending you a great big hug - it won’t help much but just showing you some much needed support xxx

 

[carolynp]

Y

Wow! You really couldn’t make it up, could you?! As if life isn’t difficult enough!
I truly admire your strength and you have brought up two great sons by the sound of it.
Sorry for all the extra rubbish in your life - I think you’re fab. I think I will now consider Eastenders as light entertainment after this! Hope that’s not too flippant, I really don’t mean to be unkind.
Sending you a great big hug - it won’t help much but just showing you some much needed support xxx

Yes very true. I forgot to say how impressed I was about @imsoblue ‘s sons’ behaviour. Wonderful, articulate, incisive, loyal to and supportive of their mother. What excellent parenting they have had, now manifest in their adulthood, and done by a mother who managed alone. Take a bow, @imsoblue ! Wolf howls to you!

 

[carolynp]

Such a sad, sad, state of affairs.
I am truly sorry that his family has been so unsupportive, but at least you now know where the land lays. Do not expect your husband to remember the meeting accurately. Especially, he will probably not remember that if he divorces you he will have to go into a nursing home - he may even remember it as you threatening him with a nursing home.

I will mention that I have heard of several people whose husband with dementia has insisted on divorce and then, afterwards, the now ex-wife has continued looking out for them (I think they are saints).

Another question that you do not have to answer. How much are you prepared to fight to retain your marriage?

Hello @canary yes horrible situation. But I hadn’t known this was something that could occur, until your mention here of other husbands’ similar insistence on divorce. Tragic - for them above all.

 

[carolynp]

Such a sad, sad, state of affairs.
I am truly sorry that his family has been so unsupportive, but at least you now know where the land lays. Do not expect your husband to remember the meeting accurately. Especially, he will probably not remember that if he divorces you he will have to go into a nursing home - he may even remember it as you threatening him with a nursing home.

I will mention that I have heard of several people whose husband with dementia has insisted on divorce and then, afterwards, the now ex-wife has continued looking out for them (I think they are saints).

Another question that you do not have to answer. How much are you prepared to fight to retain your marriage?

Hello again @canary I was wondering whether, in these cases you’ve heard of, the husband insisted on divorce for any known reason? Is it simply (ha! none of this is even remotely simple!) that the distress is projected on to the other partner, who is blamed to the point where divorce becomes the only option? Is it a bit like my OH wanting to move back to Italy because he was fine there? In other words, that removing the wife (or partner) will remove all problems and restore normality, because they are the cause of all that’s wrong?

 

[karaokePete]

KP, I am so sorry for what you are going through also! This is about the 4th time divorce has been mentioned. First was 3 months before diagnosis. It was a huge clue for me then. He began opening mail in my car, not addressed to him and I said "What are you doing?" He decided to sell our house and divorce me and I said well call your daughter. And he did. The next morning it was over. Yep, dementia before a diagnosis.
I regret That One couldn't recognize it was the dementia. That's what I'm up against. Ignorance.
Do you want your 5 to help? What could they do for you? Do they live nearby?

I won't hijack your thread, except to say that as I know help wouldn't be forthcoming I never consider whether I want it or not. I'm the epitome of pragmatism me!

 

[Grahamstown]

@imsoblue just a word of support for a truly amazing fight for what you believe to be right, while enduring such a grim experience.

 

[imsoblue]

I’m so sorry that you are going through this, @imsoblue. I have had similar problems with my husband’s family. But the main difference has been he has been frightened I will divorce him, rather than the reverse. But his children’s attitude was jus the same. I was not looking after their dad well enough/ speaking to him nicely all the time (and, as you say...sometimes that is a normal part of marriage!) but their immediate solution was a care home. I too, have shared things with his daughter especially, that have been used against me.
I’m going to ask a very personal question..and you don’t have to answer. What would be the financial implications if you divorced?
Despite all we have been through (and it is a lot!) I still love my husband. I did seriously consider just leaving him to his family. My life would have been ...well, my own again. But even in the turmoil I could see that if we got more help, and I could get some sleep, that we could get our relationship back on track again, for as long as dementia lets us have it.
But, and I know I could be wrong ...do you still want and need to be married? Was your husband ‘strange and mean’ before the dementia kicked in?
Thank goodness for your sons. I don’t know what I would have done without my children these last few months.

Thanks @Amethyst59 for sharing our soul sister stories. I work full time and have a good salary. I can support myself. Would probably have to sell our home but that would probably be because I to give him half of the worth. I'm okay with that. We have only been in it 2 years. I don't need to be married. I believe he is still cognitive and physically able enough to remain in the home with me for now. I'm hoping his resentment toward me subsides now that there's not a viable alternative. I thought I was being "forced out" and I could handle that too. No guilt. I believe I know what's right for him right now and it's not a care home that the SS were going to put him in. I'm still protecting him from himself. That's my character. And that is also the deep seeded love I have for him. Before dementia we got along great. As one of my friends noted it was because I also let him have his way. I was really flexible and was happy to go along with anything he wanted. We would laugh at his slogan: My Way or the Highway. I didn't care. His Way was fine with me. Now, not at all okay. He now says he hasn't won an argument since he lost his driving privileges. And he's correct. I have had to step up and shut down some things.
It's the weekend and we will have 2 days together. I'm still extremely hurt so I've kept more to myself than usual. I plan on stepping out for a couple of hours to have a break.
And my boys? Cannot thank them enough.

 

[imsoblue]

Such a sad, sad, state of affairs.
I am truly sorry that his family has been so unsupportive, but at least you now know where the land lays. Do not expect your husband to remember the meeting accurately. Especially, he will probably not remember that if he divorces you he will have to go into a nursing home - he may even remember it as you threatening him with a nursing home.

I will mention that I have heard of several people whose husband with dementia has insisted on divorce and then, afterwards, the now ex-wife has continued looking out for them (I think they are saints).

Another question that you do not have to answer. How much are you prepared to fight to retain your marriage?

I believe I can always fight for my marriage. With the POA in place, anything he does after the diagnosis can be considered legally invalid. It would all be done through the courts and be quite costly. But i was so ready to let SS take him. I was pushed to the limit.
I have considered ending the marriage secretly to protect my assets. I will visit a lawyer soon to see what is the best way to financially protect myself.
I so appreciate your walk before me in this and reminding me to be aware that he is still not aware of what went down during the meeting. It was a rude awakening to me to discover his family were not on MY side. Others warned me about blood being thicker than water and I should have remembered that from my first husband family. But I've learned a lesson on this one.