If you phone me and I don't answer...

[jasmineflower]

I hope your new plan works! For people with diminished mental capabilities and memory its amazing just how persistent and manipulative they can be!

Sometimes it really helps for other people on TP to listen to your problems and point out aspects of the problem that seem so so clear to other people, but not you when you are so involved in the nitty gritty of the crisis

 

[CeliaW]

Had been part way through a reply to this last night as an update to say that I had worked at home, told Mum I was at work and she couldn't phone until 6 and she had just phoned 3 times around lunchtime (but I didn't answer) and I made my usual calls during the day and reminded her about the time.

In the evening, I told her what I was doing and rang back at times I said and she didn't call so I was in control. Rang at 8pm to say Masterchef just starting.. rang just before 9 to say carer would be there soon, carer had just arrived and had found Mum on floor. No injuries but had to wait for paramedics to assess Mum before moving. Because she was alert and not in pain she became non urgent and so two hours later they arrived.

Mum finally in bed just after midnight - only thing to comment on when rung this morning was she was tired and the two ambulance men had given her a kiss goodnight. Have told her I don't expect her to be laying down on the floor in the hopes of a repeat performance as there were easier ways of getting her a kiss from a young man!

Am in trouble with sister over it - she didn't read the text I sent this morning saying I hadn't called her as there was nothing that could be done and knew she started early (she does dot.com at Tesco) so didn't want to give her a late night. She proudly told me that she doesn't put her mobile on often in fact when she checked the last time she had four messages that she should have replied to.... She was in Mums when I spoke to her - but although she hadn't been in for several days she hadn't looked at care records to check all was OK. The agency and social workers aren't allowed her mobile number and her landline is usually on answerphone so not sure how we are supposed to get hold of Mums main carer in an emergency.

I told her I thought she should read the text and hung up. She rang tonight and said about not using her phone and I just couldn't be bothered to talk to her so said well hopefully now she knew how I had tried to do the right thing but I had just got in so was going to go and take coat off etc.

Anyway - I digress - told Mum the same today about not ringing until 6 and she didn't - woohoo - that's happier neighbours. I have rung her since I got in and will ring again later to remind re tea. The carer is going to be in late tonight so bang goes my chance of getting an early night.

Still at least some progress made - so thanks for support and suggestions.. lets hope it continues.

Celia

 

[jasmineflower]

Had been part way through a reply to this last night as an update to say that I had worked at home, told Mum I was at work and she couldn't phone until 6 and she had just phoned 3 times around lunchtime (but I didn't answer) and I made my usual calls during the day and reminded her about the time.

In the evening, I told her what I was doing and rang back at times I said and she didn't call so I was in control. Rang at 8pm to say Masterchef just starting.. rang just before 9 to say carer would be there soon, carer had just arrived and had found Mum on floor. No injuries but had to wait for paramedics to assess Mum before moving. Because she was alert and not in pain she became non urgent and so two hours later they arrived.

Mum finally in bed just after midnight - only thing to comment on when rung this morning was she was tired and the two ambulance men had given her a kiss goodnight. Have told her I don't expect her to be laying down on the floor in the hopes of a repeat performance as there were easier ways of getting her a kiss from a young man!

Am in trouble with sister over it - she didn't read the text I sent this morning saying I hadn't called her as there was nothing that could be done and knew she started early (she does dot.com at Tesco) so didn't want to give her a late night. She proudly told me that she doesn't put her mobile on often in fact when she checked the last time she had four messages that she should have replied to.... She was in Mums when I spoke to her - but although she hadn't been in for several days she hadn't looked at care records to check all was OK. The agency and social workers aren't allowed her mobile number and her landline is usually on answerphone so not sure how we are supposed to get hold of Mums main carer in an emergency.

I told her I thought she should read the text and hung up. She rang tonight and said about not using her phone and I just couldn't be bothered to talk to her so said well hopefully now she knew how I had tried to do the right thing but I had just got in so was going to go and take coat off etc.

Anyway - I digress - told Mum the same today about not ringing until 6 and she didn't - woohoo - that's happier neighbours. I have rung her since I got in and will ring again later to remind re tea. The carer is going to be in late tonight so bang goes my chance of getting an early night.

Still at least some progress made - so thanks for support and suggestions.. lets hope it continues.

Celia

Hi Celia,
Sorry to hear about your mum's fall - glad she wasn't hurt. Good progress on the phone issue though. Fingers crossed it will last. xx

 

[MrsDee]

Hi CeliaW,

I hope your Mum is okay after the fall, and my heart goes out to you, i understand how you must feel with all these phone calls.
For me, when my Grandad used to ring and ring, and I couldn't answer or seen I had so many missed calls- I'd have a terrible pain in my chest all day wondering why he was ringing, only to find he had misplaced his bacon, and had anyone stolen it? Or his telly was broke, the goverment are tapping in (when it was simply on mute)!!!

I've found he calls so much, and wonder if your Mum is the same, because he gets bored and lonely at home waiting for the carer or visitor to come. And that having too much free time, makes him anxious and he starts panick dialling...

My solution, that has really worked and I hope will help you some, is to have made him some CD's for him to play of his favourite music, and to keep him occupied while he sits and listens, I ask him to write down any nice lyrics, so he can show me when I visit.
I've also set up his telly so he can play some of his favourite old movies, I found sticking coloured stickers over the buttons to turn the telly on and press play really helpful in not getting calls to 'how does it work again?'!
Hopefully the Carers could remind your Mum your working as you said, and too encourage her to do something productive while she waits..

I noticed you mentioned sometimes when she calls you play her some favourite music, so I hope this helps, and word games too? Perhaps make up a few sheets with some word related games on and print off for her to do, or maybe even some sketching or doodling, I know Grandad is always more content when he feels busy and useful, and definately let her GP know of this phoning anxiety, there should definately be something suitable to prescribe to help matters x

 

[JoshuaTree]

Gosh Celia, I've just read all this. Hope your system continues to work.

I wanted to say that when I read your opening post it could have been me typing that!
Mums constant calling was a nightmare. Every 2 or 3 mins the phone would ring..
This is no exageration.
If I was out for say 30-40 mins I would usually count about 25 missed calls in that time.

It is no joke and absolute hell. It is not trivial at all. It is almost how I imagine what it's like to be stalked.

What you said about how she wouldn't realise and deny the amount of calls is exactly right too. I could ask Mum not to ring again - I will ring etc..I would put the phone down and within a minute or two she would ring.
Her phone was in her hallway and she would just stand there for ages ringing me, putting the phone down, then picking it up and ringing me.
She did it more frequently if I was out at work for instance but failed to realise that if I don't answer it's probably because I'm not in.

If I did answer it I would probably get another minute of breathing space before she rang again.

I feel your pain and I really hope your system continues to work

 

[CeliaW]

Thanks for supportive replies all - much appreciated.

MrsDee - like your idea of the CDs but Mum struggles to even put the radio or tv on sometimes although seem to have got her sorted with a Radio 3 preset for during the day. Have to have it just on the on/ off switch as although she used to change between stations on the presets - if she changes them now she presses on the button too long and wipes the station. And Radio 2 has had to be banned as Jeremy Vine and his discussions upset her - if it is something on tv or radio she doesn't like or is worrying her, she doesn't seem able to think to switch it off and then sits and worries through it and relates it to her - either something that will be / is happening in her house or to her family. So Radio 3 classical music is the safest bet and mostly BBC 2 and a good knowledge of what is on - for example the programme about road accidents last night at 9 - had to ring and say that I didn't think she would enjoy it and there was some good music on the Radio.

Mum has limited vision and can no longer manage to read and write but the word games over the phone keep her happy - Towns from A - Z and all manner of other topics - I can probably name something in most categories (we have occupations, means of transport, items of clothing etc etc) for every letter! Though we only seem to have Ventnor for V.. need to brush up on my geography!

Please don't think I am rejecting your ideas - they are great and thanks for finding the time to post. I am sure you are right that Mum is anxious/ bored at times and thinks I can solve everything. I am sure the ideas will be helpful for others.

Celia

 

[FifiMo]

Hiya Celia,

Great that your new system seems to be working and I hope that it continues for a long time now it has shown in can work! Sorry to hear about your mum's fall but good to hear that there was no damage done. Despite you talking about the amount of phonecalls you are receiving, isn't it strange that your sister chooses to leave her phone off, yet likes to play the "main carer role" as and when it suits her - particularly if it involves complaining about one thing or another.

When answering another thread tonight I was reminded about the time that I started getting phonecalls all through the night. I found that it was someone with dementia who had the wrong number but they couldn't understand and kept asking for her daughter. This went on for months and there was little I could do because I didn't know who the person was or anything. One night the phone rang about 1am and I ignored it. It rang again and I ignored it. My front doorbell rang at about 4am and I answered it to find the police there!!! They said they had tried to contact me because my mother's house had been broken into and she had been found lying on the floor and she was fine but very shaken up. I said, did the police in Scotland contact you and I got this vague look from them...It transpires that it was this old lady with my number that it had happened to and they were desperately trying to contact her daughter! It makes you wonder how your sister would feel if something like this was going on with your mum and no one could get hold of her in the emergency. Yes the system would jump in and cover her immediate needs, but all those strangers around must be difficult for a dementia person to cope with on a normal day without the stress of a break-in to contend with as well. Really does make you think doesn't it about some of the choices that others make....

Fiona

 

[CeliaW]

I agree Fiona - I think the land line is not on answer-phone during the night but during day and evening it seems to mostly go to answer phone. Mums Lovely Lisa has my sisters mob number as she said to her that she didn't always know if sister had seen notes left. I need to let Lisa know that sister mostly has mobile switched off - I really don't know why sister has mobile - or why they have an email account either as that only gets checked rarely as b-i-l doesn't bother and sister almost proudly says that all she does to the computer is dust it! Texts and emails never get a reply by the way and often answer phone messages don't unless its to chew my ear off!

Mum phoned someone randomly a few months ago and the lady she rang was worried and dialled 1471 - got the number and then spoke to the police. The local police then contacted me to ask about it (yes they have my number so they can get hold of someone if needed) I reported all this back to sister including that the police now had Mum listed as vulnerable and no reply from her

But lets hope my system continues to work for now but I know things will change as Mums illness changes.

 

[Lulabelle]

I'm so pleased you have hit upon a new system which will, hopefully, enable you to maintain your sanity and I am amazed and delighted to see how many replies were posted and the wonderful advice you have received. I stopped posting a while ago as someone posted something which upset me but I can see that those few who prefer to offer invaluable advice and support far outnumber the few who see this as a place to put people down. Good luck to you and your Mum Celia.

 

[amicalia]

I really feel for you reading this thread Celia and I know it sounds harsh but I feel actually lucky that my mum stopped being able to make calls relatively early on, about same time as being able to use telly or shortly after. It meant I could call her but not have this terrible random calling. In the last month or so of her making calls they were so distressing as she obviously had a problem but couldn't really remember or express what it was. Usually it turned out it was related to other things she couldn't operate - washing machine, telly, etc.
I do hope your system continues to work, you desperately need that control over this area of your life (yes you do have a life, you forgot didn't you?! You are officially allowed one, honest!). And as for your sister and her attitude to texts and mobile etc., oh dear! Not much use really.
Good luck with the system and I hope things will be easier for you

 

[Lulabelle]

I meant the many who offer invaluable advice of course. sorry.

 

[Madhouse]

unwanted phone calls

Hi, I have no idea how you can get your mum not to ring you but I know exactly what you are going through because I had it with my mum before she eventually went into a Home in May. Luckily she never rang in the day, but then I used to visit every afternoon so probably knew that I'd be there. However the calls always started at teatime and she would often be crying, saying she was at the beach and didn't know how to get home, (!!!), or that the carers hadn't been, when they had... I would spend ages trying to calm her down, telling her she was safe in her own home where she had lived for 48 years and the next carer would soon be there. However she would ring again several more times in the evening. Sometimes it would upset me so much that I had to let it go to answerphone but then I couldnt even bring myself to listen to the message sometimes. I knew that I could never help her and next day she had no knowledge of what she'd done. I am one of the most patient people I know but even I was known to throw the phone across the room on occassions!! I recorded some of her most distressing calls on my ipod as evidence for people that didn't believe me because during the day mum wouldnt be too bad, it was always an evening thing. I still listen to them sometimes and know that we did the right thing putting her in a Home. In fact things got so bad we had no choice because mum has so many other problems she is immobile and has other health issues that a 24hr live in carer was the only other option. I still feel guilty and sad when I visit her but we are making the best of a bad situation. She has now been diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia and her hallucinations are far worse now. Back to the phone calls, I don't think I slept for maybe 6 months because I was always expecting the phone to go. My brother who lived with her at the time (mainly just overnight) nearly had a breakdown because he didn't sleep either, always waiting for her to try and move in the night, when she couldnt... The first day she was in the Home we breathed a sigh of relief knowing we could sleep.

 

[Florriep]

Hello Ceilia

Just wanted to add my support to what others have said. A crying baby and a ringing phone are the two things that are impossible to ignore and you have my complete sympathy in trying to manage these calls.

Until recently we were going through the same thing with hundreds of phone calls a week throughout the day and night. I got to the stage of having a physical stress reaction to the sound of the phone but even then, it's still hard to leave it ringing. Meal times, DS's homework, working from home, sleep, everthing got interrupted by the incessant ringing and the difficult conversation that followed. Once the call had finished and MIL would have forgotten it had even taken place, the stress and raised blood pressure would remain with me or DH.

In our case MIL lives in a care home and the calls were always highly anxious about when we would collect here to take her home. We eventually decided "management" was the answer - easier for us because the care staff are permanently on hand to deal with any genuine emergency. I stopped answering during the daytime if I happened to be in when I wouldn't normally be - so not to give the impression that I'm always available. We would unplug the phone during mealtimes and other times when we really didn't want the phone to ring. We bought a tent so that we could have an occasional low-cost weekend away from the phone. We made sure that anyone who might need to contact us urgently had our mobile nos. and knew that the landland could be out of use if they called. We would take or make a few calls each day to reassure MIL (and ourselves) that everything was OK then leave it at that. DH and I would take it in turns to have the calls to share the pressure - perhaps you and your sister could allocate days of the week to be on "phone duty", redirecting your phone to hers if necessary?

It was very hard to do as we are MIL's only family and felt we had to be there 24/7 for her - but the calls were so debilitating it was affecting our family life very badly and we had to do something to take control. This had limited success until MIL started dialing 999 when she couldn't get through to us, which caused quite a fuss at the home, but they finally realised the extent of the problem and started to manage things from their end as well. The calls are now down to a handful a week (also difficult initially as it felt quite wrong not to have a permanently ringing phone - funny how you get used to things!) and we feel much more able to deal with everything else without the constant gnawing in our ears.

From what others have said here and in our experience, it seems anxiety, boredom and habbit are often at the root of the problem - if it's possible to address those things, either through practical means or medication, it may help both of you to cope.

I do hope the solution you have come up with continues to work for you and that you are able to find some peace in your own home at the end of a busy day. Having been there, I don't think it's at all trivial and could easily be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Your neighbours and family are lucky to have such a considerate person in their lives!

Florrie
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[CeliaW]

Thanks for the comments and support - much appreciated. Florrie - I didn't know my picture was on here - how do you know I look like a camel?! <grins>

I think writing this thread, reading the responses and going over them has made me make quite a shift in my attitude.

For many many reasons, not least because I love her to bits, I wanted to respond to Mum, keep her safe, be there when needed and answer / address her concerns. I think in many ways I over compensate for the lack of caring input from other family members and for the life Mum had when my Dad was alive.

I still want to do all those things but now I realise it has to be more on my terms. Instead of just responding - I have been telling Mum what I will do and when I will phone. For example, "if you want to turn the tv off because you don't want this next programme and sit with the radio on whilst you have your tea, I'll phone you just before 8 to remind you to put Masterchef on" and making sure I do ring at the time. Or telling her that I am home and will call her again after I have had a coffee and put my shopping away.

I think giving her the time of 6pm by which she can call and reasonably expect me to be either home then or shortly after, and reminders during the day that that is the time I will be back and able to talk on the phone - has helped her give a set slot to it in her mind rather than the nebulous "I'm at work" which she then couldn't relate to - did I say that yesterday or was that today? If I am delayed then I will ring her from my mobile to say that I will be back but a little later.

So essentially you good guys have helped me get back some control and its made a big difference. Mum has phoned twice tonight - once to ask if someone was coming in to make her a hot drink and another time to check if I had checked there was a carer coming in. I reassured her, gave her a name, related timescale to the tv programme and she was fine. I was able to do it because only getting the question twice in the last hour and a half is much different to 10 times in three hours.

It won't always be perfect and there may need to be changes but this is an improvement I hope to be strong enough and have enough sense of self preservation, to be able to continue and work on.

Thank you

Ref my sister...hmmm - what's that saying? "The impossible we do immediately, miracles take a little longer!"


Celia
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