If you phone me and I don't answer...

[CeliaW]

I am running out of ideas to stop Mum ringing my landline when I am at work. I usually ring her several times a day and remind her I am calling from my mobile and am at work so she can't call me and I try to time the calls round times when I know she might be anxious - such as is anyone coming in to do her lunch etc. I used to get her to put a big coloured peg on the cable before I left for work to remind her that I was out, then we tried big soft hair bands on the handset but that stopped working after a while.

I tried changing my answer phone message to say I wasn't here but would call her back when I got home but if Mum hears my voice she thinks I am not answering her and then rings repeatedly and gets more and more upset. Even with the pre-recorded message she still thinks I am here and not answering so leaves increasingly distressed messages. So I filled the answer phone so she can just get a message (pre-recorded) that says I can't take her call but she can't leave a message.

That worked for a while as she remembered that it meant I wasn't here or, if I was home and couldn't get to the phone, I would ring her back.

That doesn't work now and, like today, she has rung 18 times whilst I have been at work. As well as her getting distressed at getting no reply - it is likely to become a problem for neighbours in adjoining flats, especially as one has a little baby and one works shifts and I am sure they cannot be happy when sometimes the calls are only minutes apart.

I always promise Mum I will ring when I get in and I do - but that doesn't seem to help. If I ring on the bus and say I will call again later - no good.

All I can think of is to unplug the phone so it doesn't ring in here. I need to check if she still can hear it ringing but she wont get the message. That or turn the volume off on all the phones and base units before I go to work. Just hope I remember to turn them back on when I get in.

Tonight I walked in the door and the phone was ringing and I was so tired and not feeling well. Pointless I know but I asked her had she remembered that I was at work? Yes... so why was she ringing? Denied all knowledge of ringing me (even though we were talking) and flatly denied having phoned me at all today - let alone 18 calls. I know it was pointless to ask but I was just so tired and I knew it was the start of multiple phone calls between now and when the carer comes in to get her ready for bed at 9ish. Some evenings between 6 and 9 there can be just four or five calls which is fine - sometimes there are 15 - 20 and if the carers are late then its easier to just stay on the phone and play word games or play music Mum likes or have a sing song if she is in the mood.

Once the carer has come in - then I can start my evening - maybe at 9.15 or 9.30. By then I am past wanting to bother to cook anything and too tired to do anything much and oh look - there's another day gone.

I just don't seem to get a break from it - and when I say that I am doing something like putting shopping away or trying to get something to eat - then I just get insults and I am a miserable uncaring b*tch and only think of myself etc etc

And my sister tells me I do nothing. Her advice when I mentioned it was to just ignore the phone... I can't and it would be pointless as, similar to during the day, if I don't answer Mum puts the phone down, picks it up and dials again.

Sorry - moan over.

 

[Helen33]

Hello Celia,

This is not something I had to deal with as a carer but I have read many, many posts from people who have. It sounds like torture

I do know that Alan used to get confused about sound. If the answering machine came on he would think it was an actual person and he would be confused. I wonder whether you could turn the answering machine off whilst you are at work? I realise your mum might just keep ringing the number but it may have a different effect on her if she doesn't hear your voice?? Then again there is no way of knowing at this juncture whether it would be a positive effect or negative.

I do know that if I was in this situation, I would have to find some way of dealing with it because it would drive me nuts having to deal with this every night after a day at work.

I do hope you find some way Celia that works for you.

Love

 

[CeliaW]

Thanks Helen - will try turning the answer phone off altogether and see if that works.

Maybe if she can't get my message / through on my number she will ring my sister!

 

[Lulabelle]

Oh God Celia. I don't know what to suggest but wanted to let you know that you have my undying sympathy and support. I'm so sorry and to cap it all your sister tells you you do nothing - you must just feel like bawling sometimes. I am going to think about what you can do and get back to you. In the meantime, I really feel for you and will be thinking of you and your problem.
Lulabelle

 

[CeliaW]

Hmm - tried turning the answer phone off Helen - but it means that the phone can go on ringing and ringing. At least with the answer phone on it stops after 6 rings and the message starts....

Think its going to have to be turning volume off - if I unplug it and she can't get any answer that will only distress her more as she will think something dreadful has happened. And I know I am moaning about how it affects me but I do worry about how it affects her too - although as she denies any knowledge of making any calls then maybe she forgets it within minutes and I needn't worry!

Apparently you have to repeat things 30 times for it to become a habit so will let you know mid December if I have been remembering to put the volume back up!

And thanks Lulabelle - others have worse problems but this is like a dripping tap, no escape!

 

[Onlyme]

MIL used to ring every 10 minutes during the day. If she didn't get me she would ring again. She filled up my phone memory every day and then started ringing during the night. It got so bad that I had a panic attack when I heard the phone ring and would sob and didn't want to go near the phone. She had carers in and other members of the family but she would ring me when they were there as she had forgotten they were there.

She had a massive phone bill and it nearly broke me. I still dislike answering the phone even now.

Get your own answer machine and turn it to 2 rings and then it will pick up.

The other thing you could do is call forward to your mobile but that might cost you a fortune.

 

[CeliaW]

Hi Onlyme - sorry to hear how much you suffered. I daren't have call forwarding to my mobile as it would mean being interrupted at work which would be even more of a problem than I have now trying to fit in calls and sometimes getting in late if there has been a problem with the carer turning up on time (though that tends to be mostly weekends as we have the Lovely Lisa in the week)

I can reduce the number of rings to less on the phone but often I can't see where I have put it and 6 is usually the minimum for me to get to it and answer - if I cut in when message is being said then I am in the wrong for that....

At least it costs Mum nothing as she has an all calls option.

 

[jaymor]

Would it help if you had someone else record a message for you so it was not your voice she heard. Maybe not, it sounds too easy to help in this situation. My husband used to ring me from his mobile and I would be sitting next to him. He did not recognise me as his wife and would ring me to pick him up and take him home. I would answer my phone and speak to him and he would politely tell me to be quiet as he was talking to his wife. He recognised my voice on the phone but not when I was talking to him face to face. We never found a solution to this.

Jay

 

[Izzy]

Sorry you're not feeling too good Celia. I'm afraid I've no words of advice. My mum was living with me by the time she would have been at this stage and we had carers most of the time. Bill now doesn't answer the phone when it rings - something I confirmed this weekend.

Thinking of you. x

 

[CeliaW]

Thanks for the suggestion Jaymor - I have tried both the (quite good) male and female messages that are pre-recorded on the answer phone and Mum tells me the man told her I couldn't take the call. I think she understands that as she hears it but then minutes later has forgotten.

Thanks for good wishes Izzy - think I am getting this recurring cold and cough - so run down and stressed with work and Mum I don't think I get to shake it off properly. I thought of you just now, rang Mum and reminded her about having her evening meal and she told me I should change my job and be a school teacher!

 

[Katrine]

It seems to me that you want to find a way for your mum's anxiety to be at it's lowest possible level. You are currently accepting a tremendous burden of stress and anxiety yourself in the belief that this is a sort of acceptable transfer from her to you. In fact I believe that this burden is doing neither of you any good.

What is the worst that could happen if she gets more and more upset? I am not saying that to be cruel, I am offering a challenge about what would happen on a practical level? I would suggest that the possibilities are as follows:

A. No different to now. If frustrated she will persist, but at least you can choose when you receive calls.

B. She will verbally abuse you more, rather than being to an extent pacified. Should you accept this abuse? I think not. You can ask her to be polite or you will end the call. You might think this will have no effect but since people with dementia seem to have strong 'feelings memory' it might be more productive than you think. By dancing to her tune you are reinforcing her view that this is what you are there for. In addition, aggression is a manifestation of fear. If she shouts and complains she is really saying that she is afraid because she cannot function independently.

C. She will panic and either ring 999 or have a meltdown in front of the carers. She might then be sectioned and get medical help for her anxiety.

Only you know what you can cope with, and for how long. It sounds as if you are dreadfully stressed. You will crumble sooner than she will if you let this continue. That won't make her any happier or protect her from the scary chaos in her head.

I can only say that our family could not accept this sort of torture. If MIL rang constantly on a daily basis this would be the tipping point for us to moving her to residential care. We support her at home because she is relatively happy to have her independence. Once we feel that she is constantly unhappy, frightened and unable to manage on her own then that illusion of independence will, sadly, have to come to an end. She did ring 999 this week due to fireworks. She thought her house was exploding. That was a one-off. To be tolerated on a daily basis, no. Not right for us, not right for her. Would it be fair to allow her to be constantly in fear?

Sending you love and support. Katrine xx

 

[CeliaW]

Hi Katrine - thanks for your detailed reply.

I do say to Mum that when she is rude or nasty on the phone then I will ring off and I do. But Mum has a degree of awareness of how she is behaving - she will tell me I am upsetting her and pretend to cry. She knows when she is being awful and we have discussed at length that if she carries on like this she will get less support from myself and my sister and then she won't be considered safe at home. This then leads to her saying we are trying to get her put away. She tells me (and seems to understand) that she knows if she doesn't eat / drink enough and at least be co-operative with us and the carers then she is paving the way to it being decided she cannot manage at home and will need to go into a care home which she is adamant she won't do.

The SW's say that, with carers going in she is able to cope physically at home and (with one exception recently due apparently to a bad dream) she remains within the home. There appears to be minimal concern for her emotional welfare. My sister is her main carer and is mostly in denial that Mum has Vas D and, whilst I accept that some of Mums behaviour is down to her personality, it is exacerbated by the Vas D and some of it a direct cause.

She is not on any medication and I have discussed this with the GP and about her going back to the specialist consultant - my sister seems to have stopped those visits since I attended for one appointment. She was horrified because I mentioned to him that my brother has bi-polar disorder and I shouldn't have said anything. She thinks its my fancy name for it and he just needs to pull himself together (as she has told him) but obviously I and others in the family know the reality and diagnosis / problems. I live 80 miles away from Mum and don't drive so cannot just pop up for short visits or appointments and so sister makes doc appointments - usually just for blood pressure checks although I have to go up if Mum has to have a blood test.

The problem is I can discuss this with Mum during the daytime as we did yesterday but come the evening, with her sundowning that I am sure she has, it becomes impossible. Something I could have said earlier and she would have responded to is just like a red rag to a bull.

Ref the aggression - when I ask her why she is like that and what she thinks it achieves, she says she just gets frustrated with things and then doesn't stop to think what she says. She had a difficult time with my father who was a bully and that was how he got his way and I sometimes wonder if she is trying the same route. I read on here about compassionate communication but its impossible by phone.

Have to laugh to myself, Lovely Lisa (the most fabulous carer) has had to take the night time calls as someone has gone off sick. She has just rung to say Mum is refusing to go to bed and I could hear her shouting in the background - feel a bit guilty as I know I hadn't done my usual "getting Mum in a good mood before the carer arrives" bit. However, talked to Mum, explained why she couldn't sleep downstairs, why it was safer in bedroom and that's why I had got a commode in there etc and now she has agreed and apologised for upsetting/ worrying me. She must have been in a sh*tty mood for Lisa to ring for help as she usually has Mum eating out of her hand as she is so good and caring with her.

I think I have wandered a bit Katrine - sorry - but I hear what you say and will keep it in mind.

Celia

 

[garnuft]

I was going to say what Lemony said, have the calls re-directed to your mobile and just have it on vibratrion, then I thought, you'll only dread the buzzing noise in your bag and worry, so that's no solution. I wouldn't give a monkey's about neighbours hearing your phone ring, so wipe that worry out.
I think you have to stop allowing your sister to make you feel s**t, THEN you'll be able to handle the calls in your own way. Not feeling you have to make up for something. I worry that it is the pressure from your sister that stops you from being free. She is your Mum too. We do our own bit. Have strength in yourself, don't feel guilty. She wants to stay in her home? these are the constraints it entails. Life isn't perfect, sadly.
You're sad too. Be strong. Take a chance. Ignore a bit more. Gwen XXX

 

[Chemmy]

I'm with Katrine on this one. I wouldn't allow this to dominate my life.

Cover the phone with a duvet/pillows when you don't want to take calls if you can't stand the ringing or it might disturb the neighbours. Give anyone who might need to get through your mobile number. If your sister gets abusive, don't accept her calls; let her send a text. Actually, I'd leave the answerphone off as your mum might recognise that if it just keeps ringing, it means you're not in.

If there are carers coming in to check on your mum, then leave it to them to report back that they've found her hysterical or distressed. That takes you out of the equation and maybe your sister will be forced to accept things have to change.

Katrine's right in that someone has to break this cycle and that can only be you. If it causes a crisis, so be it; at least it will be a controlled one. Maybe that is what's needed to get your mum the help she clearly needs.

 

[branwen]

I had this happen with my mother too. It seemed to be an extension of her lifelong anxiety about needing to know where I was and have control over me all the time - so there was already a lot of emotional issues between us over it (her anxiety and demands vs my feelings of being trapped and intruded on). Like OnlyMe I got to the point of breaking down sobbing or almost having panic attacks whenever I saw the light flashing on the phone.One occasion she notched up nearly 30 phone calls in 24hrs to tell me about some roadworks - even hving carers 24/7 couldn't distract her. I found it particularly bad as I've spent years being "on call" in my job, before suffering several bouts of stress from that - and I was back on call again twice over - job and mum. I got to the point where I would take a tent and camp out in places where there was no mobile signal some nights just to make sure I wasn't tempted to answer just to have a break from it. Eventually she seemed to forget how to use the phone but it took nearly 2yrs

NB She also used to phone my colleagues and boss (ie phoning work, then whoever was on call) if she couldn't get me - and they'd then panic there was a crisis and start trying to track me down. Like most things with dementia it spreads its chaos outwards

I'd agree with the advice above about not answering.Once it gets to this level it will simply get too much, please don't underestimate how much torture this can be. Get another mobile and give the number to carers or neighbours to use in emergencies, but not to your Mum. Unplug the phone at the wall and put a post-it note somewhere to remind you to plug it in again. Contact her when you can and want to.

 

[Salli]

Celia – I can sympathise as I have a similar problem with my mother and I have had to take what some might think an uncaring approach, but to me it's a practical solution and it enables me to cope better as her calls were making me stressed. I no longer have an ansaphone, nor a phone in the bedroom – just caller-display in living room. If I'm the 'chosen one' for one of phone-frenzy moods or if I want a quiet evening, I unplug my landline and she just has to assume I'm not there (it carries on ringing her end). She is obsessed with phoning people (not just me) and rang the chiropodist fifteen times last week, four times on Sunday, and the hairdresser eleven times. I see the record of calls she makes as having Power of Attorney I can access this online. On Sunday mum could not understand a beeping noise and rang telecare who then rang me on my mobile (mum does not have this number – cheap second phone bought for 99p on eBay) to say it sounded like an alarm clock. When I rang mum she had by then dialed 999 because she didn't like being told it was her clock making the noise and the police had just arrived. She denied having alarm clock, but she had it next to her in living room! She had already rung me at 5.30am (did not hear phone as I was in bed, but showing on caller display) apparently to tell me to put off her grandson visiting because she was tired. Yes, so would I have been if I had been woken by phone in bedroom!

When I had the ansaphone (and she still does it to my daughter) she'd leave nasty messages several times a day, so eventually I decided I was enabling her to do this by having this facility, so got rid of it. I, too, have no transport and travel by bus to see mum once a week. In an emergency it would be no good her phoning me for help anyway as I could not rush over there and mum has her telecare and they can still contact me. The caller display lets me see if she (and anyone else) has phoned and I then return her call at my leisure. It puts me back in control.

My mother did not like it at first, but now is used to me not answering. No harm has come to her by me not being at her beck and call – she just harasses someone else, and I actually think that's not a bad thing so other people are aware of how she is (not) coping living independently.

 

[FifiMo]

Maybe you should call-forward to your mum's number and she would get an engaged tone? Maybe you should call forward to your sister's number if she thinks there is nothing wrong with your mum?

The whole idea of having carers and the LA assessing the person's needs is so that person can be safe in their home and have their needs met by the number of visits made by the carers. People who have no relatives remain on their own for years with this arrangement. So, there should be no need for your mum to call you in terms of her welfare. The battle then becomes one of you deciding when you do and when you don't answer the phone. As much as your mum phones you, she is not going to come to any harm by you not answering the phone. I know you are doing your best for her and that you want to be able to reduce her stress, but maybe the answer has to come from the LA and not you. Does your mum have a telecare phone for example? Maybe that would give you additional reassurances that ignoring the call is not going to cause problems. Yet again, this is one aspect of this illness that can cause carers to snap. I certainly didn't like it when my mother was phoning me at all hours of the day and night. I spoke to her GP about it and what I have said above was his advice.

It is one thing to talk about it, but it is another thing to have to cope with it constantly. I hope for your sanity that you find a solution that helps you both.

Fiona

 

[Canadian Joanne]

Fiona, forwarding the calls to the sister is exactly what I thought of. Even just doing it for a day or so should be an eye-opener. Of course, the sister should be advised the calls will be forwarded with a plausible excuse/lie.

 

[CeliaW]

Amendment?

Thank you for all your replies, they have certainly given me food for thought.

On a practical side, mum is unable to dial numbers and has 3 presets on her phone, one is blank, one to me and one to my sister. We did discuss the option of Telecare with one SW but came to the conclusion she wouldn't know when to use it or agree to. She can only manage to use the one phone and sometimes even struggles with on /off buttons on radio and tv etc. When anyone phones sister they often don't get an answer, so Mum would get no response. If she did speak to sister she would likely get moaned at so that wouldn't help.

I am conscious of the fact that there are many issues at play here and need to think about them. I think firstly I need to get more control over it and be firmer with Mum if I am doing things and about the number of calls and how many I answer etc. I cant not be concerned for neighbours so I will try turning ringers off, the post it idea is a good one, thank you.

Will reply more to other points later. Thank you all for your support and understanding for something which I thought would appear trivial to most people, especially given what many on here struggle with on a daily basis.

Apologies for the"Amendment?" in the title! I put that in a posted reply when using my mobile one time and now it reappears every time I do a reply from my mobile - I usually remember to delete it but didn't today, sorry.

 

[CeliaW]

Have tried a new thing with Mum this morning - that she can't ring me until after 6pm when I am home but that I will ring her from my mobile to check all is well. I am hoping that if she has a time to work to rather than a vague "I am at work" - that will help. Have asked lovely Lisa to leave a note to get the lunch time carer to repeat that to Mum and I will remind her when I phone. I do work from home on odd days so will try my best to keep to that and only make calls and not take them so she gets in the habit of it.

Fingers crossed I am making a start to improving things...