Health professionals and failure to communicate with carers

Spinner

Registered User
Nov 15, 2012
9
0
Hi

Where to start? I live in Australia but am struggling to find an Australian forum as comprehensive as this one.

My mother has received varying diagnoses and opinions in relation to her cognitive state. During the course of a five week hospital admission from late November 2011 to early January 2012 mum was "diagnosed" as having Alzheimer's Disease by a geriatrician and consultant physician who is a visiting medical officer (let's call him Dr H) at the hospital in which she was staying. He is also the Director of Geriatric Medicine at another private hospital. Mum's original admission to hospital resulted from ongoing facial pain (diagnosed some months earlier as Trigeminal Neurlgia), confusion and loss of her ability to cope.

During mum's stay my brother and I made several unsuccessful attempts to contact her neurologist (we'll call him Dr S) to discuss her condition. Our requests for discussion were ignored. He simply did not respond. On one occasion, and only by chance, I was visiting mum when Dr S popped in. He seemed surprised when mum told him how disappointed we were that he had not returned our calls.

My brother and I were made aware of the diagnosis during a family meeting, initially with Dr H, an occupational therapist, discharge nurse and then, later, mum. During the family conference arrangements for mum's return to her home were discussed and subsequently put in place. One of these arrangements was that a home nursing service would visit her daily, for a week, to see how she was coping and checking on how she was going with her medication. Mum agreed to this arrangement. (As it turned out, mum rejected the home nurses visit, saying that she would have to visit at a time suitable to mum and that she regarded the visit as an invasion of privacy. She also said the nurse was not suitably qualified to advise on and monitor mum's medication.)

Mum seemed to accept the diagnosis. In fact she was more concerned about being told that she could no longer drive.

The months that followed were difficult. During this time she rejected the AD diagnosis and placed all her trust in Dr S. Finally, at mum's insistence, Dr S did make contact with my brother and said mum was certainly experiencing cognitive dysfunction and believed she may have Frontotemporal Dementia. He agreed that we discuss this possibility with mum. My brother went to mum's house and talked to her about his conversation with Dr S and the possibility of FTD. Again, she seemed to accept what she was being told. This was back in March.

In early April, I attended with mum at a follow up appointment with Dr H. Mum travelled to the city via community transport as she lives 80 kilometres away. During the appointment mum said that her GP had given her permission to drive (true) despite being instructed by Dr H not too. Her GP was also aware of this. Dr H was concerned about this and wanted mum, at the very least, to undergo a driving assessment. She became agitated and angry. The geriatrician spent over an hour with us. The appointment ended when the community transport driver came to collect her. Later, mum went on to reject everything discussed at the appointment and the recommendations made. She accused the Dr H of deliberately making the appointment go over time so that he could charge her more. She refused to see him again.

Two days later my mother had an appointment with Dr S. My brother and sister-in-law agreed to attend with her though, for some reason, she arranged for community transport to take her to the city despite the fact that my brother said he would be able to pick her up and take her home. My brother had prepared a list of questions for Dr S and recorded the answers. One of the questions my brother asked was whether he still believed mum had FTD. At this point Dr S hesitated to say for certain and went on to talk about the detailed complexities of dementia. He said the best way to ascertain level of impairment was with a full neuropsychological assessment. Mum agreed to this and he would arrange for an assessment to be undertaken after Easter. Seven months later this has still not been done. When I quizzed mum about it she said she had undergone the assessment, that Dr S was happy with the results and she was allowed to drive. I asked her where she had done the assessment and she said it was able to be done locally. I knew she was not telling the truth. She lives in an area heavily populated by elderly retirees. There are no specialists, few doctors and no hospital. However, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I was forced to accept what she told me. On this basis, I wrote to Dr S, in an attempt to open up the lines of communication and extract the truth, and thanked him for arranging the assessment. He didn't respond.

In September mum underwent microvascular decompression for her trigeminal neuralgia. The surgeon said the operation went well but there was very little to decompress. Mum's cognitive impairment was also discussed and he would not rule out AD as the cause. Prior to the surgery mum informed my brother and his wife that she had not undergone the neuropsychological assessment and stated that Dr S had no intention of organising an assessment, that he said he would do so to stop my brother and I worrying. She said "he gave me a little kick under the table and a wink to let me know he wasn't really going to make me do it". Mum also confirmed what she said to my brother and his wife to my husband and I a week later.

What we are going through only touches the surface of what is going on. There are issues with her legal documents (specifically, her Enduring Power of Attorney), the failure of the MVD surgery, her continuing pain and confusion, her inability to cope and properly care for herself and the ongoing lack of communication from her neurologist. In Australia, as I'm sure it is worldwide, the Doctors' Code of Conduct states that good medical practice involves being considerate to relatives, carers, partners and others close the patient, and respectful of their role in the care of the patient and, with appropriate consent, being responsive in providing information. She takes a considerable amount of prescription medication including painkillers and sedatives. She continues to drive but restricts herself to driving locally despite the fact she keeps telling us that she's "tossing down the painkillers and sedatives". This raises the question as to what difference is there between driving whilst heavily medicated and driving under the influence of alcohol. If I was pulled over for a random breath test after consuming a few drinks and driving home it wouldn't be acceptable because I was driving locally.

In a last ditch effort to get some answers my brother has again written to Dr S. We're not hopeful of a response.
 

lin1

Registered User
Jan 14, 2010
9,350
0
East Kent
Hello Spinner
Welcome to TP
I am sorry to hear about your mum and the problems you are having

Sorry I am not going to be much help to you as I live in England,but I could not read and pass you by ,it took us a while. yrs in fact to get the proper diagnosis for my mum , the reasons for this was due to mums consultants, so I do understand what your going through
Mum was eventually diagnosed with, Alzheimers and Vascular dementia (mixed dementia)

We do have people on here from Australia hopefully they will be along soon, in fact we are lucky on TP in that we have members from all over the world :)

Its very common for someone with dementia to disagree with the diagnosis, deny anything is wrong, believe they are perfectly capable , blame others for the problems etc etc.
I found with my mum the worst thing I could do was to correct her in anything she believe was right, even if it was clearly wrong
Though I didnt have a problem with mum accepting the diagnosis( she was too far gone at that time)

Having said that we have quite a few members on here who suffer from this vile illness , who are perfectly capable, they drive, cook basically do everything

In the uk once their is a diagnosis, we have to notify the department that issues our driving licences (DVLA)of certain medical conditions
I am wondering if you should/could do that

I am going to put a link here in a moment that you might find helpfull, if not now but for later

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...ionate-Communication-with-the-Memory-Impaired
 
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zeeeb

Registered User
Wow, that was a long one... i did make it through. I'm not sure what to say, but I am also in australia, and also hang on this forum because there are no forums that i've found based in australia with any real activity or discussion regularly.

I have found (i'm in SA) that the medical stuff goes slowly here. You have an appointment every 6 months, and then sometimes the stuff that you were told about gets done in that 6 month period, sometimes not. My mum was diagnosed with Alz. after a year of mucking around, and then parkinsons as well after another year of mucking around. waiting for appointments is long, seeing specialists is slow, and none of them work at the same hospitals let alone the same day. my parents live 2 hours away from the city, so they have to drive all that way each time they have appointments, which are always on different days, and in different places. MRIs are done in one place, CT's in another, SPECT in another, neuropsych down one end of town, geriatrician and parkinson specialists down the other end of town (fortunately those 2 are close to me).

So, i know all of that is no help, but you aren't the only one wading through treacle up to your elbows trying to get somewhere.

Also, with the driving, just a question, has she not been tested?

my mum, within 2 months of her diagnosis was sent a letter by the licencing people in SA telling her she had to sit a driving test. and was then told her licence was now revoked to the point where she can only drive within 5km of home. She was 57 then, and she is still capable of driving, it was more that she was given a driving test when she was in the full force of the depression resulting in the diagnosis (given that she is a nurse who worked in aged care and had a dad with alzheimers, she knows more than most people would ever want to about aging and dementia, she knew exactly what was coming her way, so it's not surprising she didn't do great on the test when she was dealing with all this fresh grief).

welcome to TP anyway, hopefully you can read yourself to insanity with the tonnes of information on this great site...
 

Spinner

Registered User
Nov 15, 2012
9
0
Thanks for responses. I know there are so many people out there who face the same situation as my brother and I (and our famiies).

We live in Queensland. Here, a driver licence holder 75 years of age or older, must only drive while carrying, and driving in accordance with a current Medical Certificate. This is mandatory regardless of whether or not the driver has a medical condition.

If a doctor has recommended conditions for driving, the medical certificate must state those conditions and the driver must abide by these conditions when driving. I don't believe that these conditions are recorded on mum's medical certificate. They certainly weren't back in April when we visited the geriatrician. This was despite him saying, in January, that she had to cease driving. I had previously been in contact with mum's GP to advise him, but he issued the certificate regardless. Also, health professionals are not required to report medically unfit drivers to Queensland Transport. There is also no mandatory testing for elderly drivers. As family members our concerns are of little consequence, to mum's health professionals and Queensland Transport.

Mum was a nurse. She did her neurosurgical training in Western Australia. She tends to draw on that knowledge ... from 55 years ago! Her long term memory is good. She relies on events from the past even when it is unrelated to what we are talking about. Her short term memory is terrible. In a period of five minutes she'll repeat the same thing three or four times.

The next appointment with her neurosurgeon is in January 2013. Her neurologist can't see her until the end of February 2013.

I guess all we can do is wait until the next crisis. We know it's coming. There are some things mum continues to manage on her own but they are becoming fewer. Her meals are provided by Meals on Wheels and she receives some domestic assistance. She struggles to deal with paperwork and says she will leave it until she gets better.

Thanks so far to zeeeb and lin1. We know we're not alone.
 

zeeeb

Registered User
it does seem as though, throughout the UK, America and Australia, that this is the way alot of these types of illnesses are dealt with, wait for the crisis and react. Pretty poor. It certainly doesn't happen that way for cancer or heart disease sufferers. As you read through the threads, you'll see hundreds of circumstances where all people can do is wait for the crisis to hit and call the ambulance / social worker / police / mental health facility. Not ideal in any way shape or form.

It's hard to take people's independence away from them, and it's hard for them to recognise they can't manage anymore. Every which way we look at it, it's just hard.
 

Spinner

Registered User
Nov 15, 2012
9
0
Finally, we maybe getting somewhere. After putting a lot of pressure on mum's neurologist he graced us with his written response to the questions we have been asking for 12 months now. We are meeting with him this week.

Before Christmas, at a family lunch, Mum, out of the blue, said she knew she had dementia. She said that she had spent this last year in denial. It was, in a strange way, a relief to hear. Hopefully a neuropsych assessment will follow.

This is only my third post and the rules of Talking Point won't allow me to post links here as to what's making news in Australia regarding patient advocacy. Not surprisingly the AMA has raised concerns. Time the AMA had a look in its own backyard.
 

Spinner

Registered User
Nov 15, 2012
9
0
Finally, we maybe getting somewhere. After putting a lot of pressure on mum's neurologist he graced us with his written response to the questions we have been asking for 12 months now. We are meeting with him this week.

Before Christmas, at a family lunch, Mum, out of the blue, said she knew she had dementia. She said that she had spent this last year in denial. It was, in a strange way, a relief to hear. Hopefully a neuropsych assessment will follow.

This is only my third post and the rules of Talking Point won't allow me to post links here as to what's making news in Australia regarding patient advocacy but, not surprisingly the AMA has raised concerns. Time the AMA had a look in its own backyard.