To be honest thinking about this has made me quite cross. The family are in fact challenging both your MIL and yourselves about this rent. If MIL wants to pay you the going rate and is capable of doing it from her income then who on earth does anyone think they are to deny her the right to support herself in this way. Am definately with Miss Merlot now in thinking the only future they are maybe thinking of is one of inheritance. Your MIL should not be denied the right to live in whichever way and wherever she chooses while she still has capacity. And if that is with you and your family for as long as it works then my advice would be just ignore them, or ask why they want to deny your MIL her right to chose how and where she lives while she still can. What's wrong with all these "invisibles" who keep doing this sort of thing to those who really care! grrrhhhh... Feeling cross!
Fair expenses?
- Thread starter Cinder
- Start date
Thank you all so much your replies.
I was really doubting myself, but feel much clearer now.
Karjo- I'd never thought about it that way and on that basis, if she wants to contribute she should be allowed. It's no one else's business!
My heartfelt thanks you all.
Talking Point is such a wonderful group of people.
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I was really doubting myself, but feel much clearer now.
Karjo- I'd never thought about it that way and on that basis, if she wants to contribute she should be allowed. It's no one else's business!
My heartfelt thanks you all.
Talking Point is such a wonderful group of people.
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I think as the children are now having to share a bedroom, so effectively you (as a family) are worse off and living in a 2 bed house it seems to fair to charge her rent.
If she hadn't sold her house she could be renting that out, if she has sold it and it is invested there will be some income, so to my mind this equates to her paying your costs.
I think if it had been an empty unused room and it wasn't reducing your space so badly it might have made me reconsider, but she is only paying her way for what she is getting.
If she hadn't sold her house she could be renting that out, if she has sold it and it is invested there will be some income, so to my mind this equates to her paying your costs.
I think if it had been an empty unused room and it wasn't reducing your space so badly it might have made me reconsider, but she is only paying her way for what she is getting.
I think that says it all - your MIL is happy with the arrangement, she would probably feel ill at ease having a room for free when you have 2 children sharing a room.
If she had no ressources, it would be different, but I think that most of us would prefer to pay towards our room rather than live off our children.
Sadly, I feel your family members are not being helpful. It really has nothing to do with them. They should respect her choice of paying for her room in your home.
Please take some legal advice on this, maybe get a contract drawn up while she still has capacity because if she needs a care home you may come a cropper if she runs out of funds and has to be funded by the LA.
A legal document now might save you a lot of heartache.
I think it's very reasonable. Her bills and council tax would easily amount to £300 without food.
I think if you are not greedy and I don't think you are then £300 is fair and reasonable.
I know of an awful situation where a man gave up his job to have his dad move in and look after him. The old boy was paying towards the household, helping out with uni fees etc and then he needed care home care.
The man had to get his job back as the La wanted to claw back £30 ,000 when he needed funding.
A legal document migh just help you to fight your corner, especially if gran has to have the bigger room as its nearer to bathroom etc!!
A legal document now might save you a lot of heartache.
I think it's very reasonable. Her bills and council tax would easily amount to £300 without food.
I think if you are not greedy and I don't think you are then £300 is fair and reasonable.
I know of an awful situation where a man gave up his job to have his dad move in and look after him. The old boy was paying towards the household, helping out with uni fees etc and then he needed care home care.
The man had to get his job back as the La wanted to claw back £30 ,000 when he needed funding.
A legal document migh just help you to fight your corner, especially if gran has to have the bigger room as its nearer to bathroom etc!!
If your MiL is happy with the arrangement and you and your family are also happy then there is no one else to worry about.
Don't even let it cross your mind that you are being unreasonable.
https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home/becoming-a-resident-landlord
You probably don't think of yourself as a 'landlord' but if you do want to set up something in writing you could probably do it under the 'rent-a-room scheme' . If you google the scheme there are various examples of sample agreements which you could then adapt to suit you and your MIL.
You probably don't think of yourself as a 'landlord' but if you do want to set up something in writing you could probably do it under the 'rent-a-room scheme' . If you google the scheme there are various examples of sample agreements which you could then adapt to suit you and your MIL.
I hadn't considered it rent, but in a similar situation to you, we have Mil living with us. I had to 'give up' my home office to accomodate her - and also give up a lot of the free lance work I was doing, in order to provide her care. She hands over her attendance allowance, plus a small weekly sum - that money covers all her food, toiletries, the hand gels we go through like water, the cost of replacing her 'pop socks' and not infrequent purchases of underwear, her contribution towards our bills (which have gone up a lot due to higher heating costs and especially because of extra washing due to incontinence) and - a really big expense - petrol costs, as we pick her up from day care 5 days a week, also frequently have to take her in, run her to visit friends and to hospital/doctors appointments - usually its about an extra £45 pw going into the car alone, plus the fact that (like today) youngest and I are off to visit oldest in Manchester, and not being able to use the car as OH needs it to pick his Mum up, its costing us £30 in train tickets (£10 roughly more than the petrol costs for a straight run in the car) - I've found that there are a lot of similar additional expenses like that. We're still slightly worse off than before she moved in, mainly down to my income being reduced a lot - whereas Mils 'costs', compared to when she was living independently, have reduced by about £300 pm.
Although Mil has now declined to the point where she is thinking in terms of 'shilling and pence' and feels that I am something of a spendthrift for paying £1.50 for a lip salve when as far as she is concerned, they can be bought for about sixpence, she did agree to these figures when she moved in - intially, I wasn't happy about the amount, worried that it seemed a lot, but when OH sat me down with pen and paper and we looked at the extra costs, it was clear that Mil was a lot better off financially - and we weren't, even without my loss of earnings coming into play.
So no - I don't think you are being unfair or unreasonable either
Although Mil has now declined to the point where she is thinking in terms of 'shilling and pence' and feels that I am something of a spendthrift for paying £1.50 for a lip salve when as far as she is concerned, they can be bought for about sixpence, she did agree to these figures when she moved in - intially, I wasn't happy about the amount, worried that it seemed a lot, but when OH sat me down with pen and paper and we looked at the extra costs, it was clear that Mil was a lot better off financially - and we weren't, even without my loss of earnings coming into play.
So no - I don't think you are being unfair or unreasonable either
For a while I rented a room Mon-Fri only as I was working away from home. Three years ago this cost £450 per month including bills but not food. There were of course no additional costs to the homeowner as AnnMac has described; I didn't even do laundry there. So it seems quite reasonable to me, but mainly I think if the people involved have agreed at the outset of the arrangement then that's all that matters.
Initially, she wasn't getting higher rate attendance allowance, and it was only after she had been here about 5 months that we, after talking to her, started to take it - by then, we had seen how much the utility and phone bills had risen by - that money (well, £300 that we take of it) covers the petrol (approx £180 - £190 per month) plus bills. The weekly ammount she gives - well, about half of that goes on toiletries, pop socks, things like hand gel and any odd things she wants to buy - she likes to chose a bunch of flowers for her friend, most weeks or wants to buy herself 'face cream' (which she then looses or uses within a week!) - and the rest on food and cleaning stuff, including air freshener, disinfectant, extra washing powder and fabric softener, wipes for 'accidents', and so on, all items I have to buy quite a bit more of these days. The contribution from the £300 that she makes towards bills is around £300 less per month than she was paying out in utilities when she lived alone. Taking into account the normal fuel/utility increases that you would get anyway, we are not paying any less for these things than we were before she moved in, nor have our own bills for food/groceries dropped - so we haven't 'benefitted' from her contribution, which I guess satisfies me that her contribution is fair?
I agree AnnMac. A few years ago I rented a room when I was working away from home. It was £450 a month including bills but not food. This was for Mon-Fri only, and there were none of the extra costs you mention; I didn't even do laundry there. So this seems more than reasonable.
My mum was also paying almost £500 per month for two 30 minute care visits a day when she was still living in her own home and paying all the usual bills. If this would be the alternative, your MIL is still better off financially (not to mention all the other advantages of being with family).
But mainly, It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. If MIL was happy with the arrangement when you set it up, it's nobody else's affair.
PS sorry for partially duplicated post - brain out of gear!
My mum was also paying almost £500 per month for two 30 minute care visits a day when she was still living in her own home and paying all the usual bills. If this would be the alternative, your MIL is still better off financially (not to mention all the other advantages of being with family).
But mainly, It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. If MIL was happy with the arrangement when you set it up, it's nobody else's affair.
PS sorry for partially duplicated post - brain out of gear!
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I agree with Miss Merlot et al. Ker-ching!
Maybe you should show them how much a care home would cost, although quite honestly if they refused to consider letting her live with them it's really none of their business.
I know both my parents would INSIST on paying rent. My Grandad certainly did when he moved in with us over 30 years ago, it wouldn't have occurred to him that he might live with us for free. Your Mum, I am sure, is the same and the fact that she is making a contribution to the home is essential for her self worth as well as all the other factors mentioned above. And I think the amount she is paying is more than fair.
I would definitely follow DottyD's advice and get a rental agreement in place for your peace of mind, not just for Social Services but just in case the family try to cause problems somehow. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst, as they say!
My own experiences and reading this forum have made me realise that this awful condition brings out the best in some people and the very worst in others.
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Thanks for so many replies.
We calculate bills on a third if it's adult-only or a fifth if it's whole house. Eg, she pays a fifth of water, electricity, gas but a third of phone line rental and her own calls (as they are international).
Sadly it's out of our hands now as they have reported us For financial abuse and MILs solicitor came up today & collected our ledger & her bank statements.
Now we wait....
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We calculate bills on a third if it's adult-only or a fifth if it's whole house. Eg, she pays a fifth of water, electricity, gas but a third of phone line rental and her own calls (as they are international).
Sadly it's out of our hands now as they have reported us For financial abuse and MILs solicitor came up today & collected our ledger & her bank statements.
Now we wait....
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Not yet.
We have nothing to hide so we're really hoping the solicitor will see expenses as fair. We have kept all receipts etc going back the last 7 months (she's been here 18 months) as we could see her declining about then.
And TBH, we can't really afford a lawyer on top of everything else!
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We have nothing to hide so we're really hoping the solicitor will see expenses as fair. We have kept all receipts etc going back the last 7 months (she's been here 18 months) as we could see her declining about then.
And TBH, we can't really afford a lawyer on top of everything else!
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That is beyond disgusting. I am sure her solicitor will see from the bank statements and ledger that there is no case whatsoever and tell them to stop wasting his/her time but what a horrible worry for you Cinder.
Gawd I am SO angry on your behalf.
Gawd I am SO angry on your behalf.
I'd love to know who's paying the solicitor's fees. Can't be MIL as presumably she did not instruct the solicitor to open an investigation. On what or whose authority did the solicitor require the documents etc to be handed over?
I suppose you have to try and stay calm and adopt an attitude that says 'we have nothing to hide' because you don't but I too am fuming on your behalf. As I suggested earlier, if her family don't like the current arrangement I would be inclined to put the ball in their court to find an alternative.
I suppose you have to try and stay calm and adopt an attitude that says 'we have nothing to hide' because you don't but I too am fuming on your behalf. As I suggested earlier, if her family don't like the current arrangement I would be inclined to put the ball in their court to find an alternative.
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How dreadful for you. I would be sorely tempted to pack her bags and send her in a taxi to the address of one of these relatives, were it not for the fact that she is a human being and you clearly love her.
