Fair expenses?

[jugglingmum]

I agree with Pickles - not sure the solicitor has any right to your records, or to take instructions from anyone but MIL, if she doesn't have capacity then someone needs to apply to be a deputy.

I'd turn up tomorrow morning, demand to see the partner and ask why he is not following the rules! That will really really shake him up.

 

[Chemmy]

Taken from the Which website

http://www.which.co.uk/elderly-care...efits-and-drawbacks-of-living-with-a-relative

It’s a rare household that feels cheap to run, and rarer still is a family who has more disposable income than they know what to do with. If a relative moves in with you, there’s a good chance they will be able to offer some level of financial assistance. This could be a modest and regular (weekly or monthly) contribution to the mortgage or household bills, or something more significant: for example, paying for an extension to the home, or having a conservatory built.

So the principle that she pays her way is not unreasonable. What else is supposed to happen to her pension etc.? Her savings build up whilst you are out of pocket? I call that unreasonable and I too am incensed on your behalf.

 

[tre]

I am really sorry to hear this. I hope it works out for you but my experience of going to court ( not in the same circumstances- my husband's first wife of over 20 years ago is the beneficiary of a very generous monthly payment of over £500 which my husband offered her as he did not at the time realise he would end up with dementia which would incur unexpected costs. This was for her only as their children were over 30 and independant. He also gave her the family home which has left her with a 3 bed semi very similar to ours all paid for. I went to ask the court for a variation to reduce the monthly payment in view of our changed circumstances and the costs of daycare and four hours additional assistance. I had approached her but she was not having any as she said she needed the money. She has her state pension plus two other small occupational pensions plus assets in excess of £220,000 in addition to the property.We are approaching the £23k limit having spent money to adapt the house so I can keep him at home. She has a new partner but is canny enough not to live wiith him and told the court he was just a companion despite them having been together for over ten years and his having funded a three week holiday to New Zealand. She has since then been on a trip to the states costing over £2,000 but she told the court she relied on the money. She said if it is too hard for me to look after him to put him in residential care in which situation I know he would be desperately unhappy, not get the one to one care he needs, and likely not last long. Ironically, if he dies her money stops so you would think she would help. Anyhow,rant over, except for me telling you the outcome. We went before a judge for a preliminary hearing and she said that she was very sorry for our situation and to come back when he was in resdential care as in he was not bad enough. To go to court at all I had to put him in respite as he was too bad to attend court. All this cost us £11,000 in court fees for nothing so I have no faith in the justice system as it is only for the rich. We gave up and I would not try again even if he did end up in residential care.)
So when you say , although not of your choosing, you are starting down the legal route my heart sank for you. I am desperately looking for something positive to post but in my experience it is really stressful and horrible. I think those family members who are putting you through this are doing so out of money grabbing self interest although they are trying to make out they are concerned for your mum. If they were really concerned about your mum they would be doing the hands on caring stuff that you are doing. All I can say that you know you love your mum and you are doing the best thing for her.
Tre

 

[Chemmy]

Another (US) website

https://www.caring.com/articles/parent-wants-to-move-in?page=2

Many people make the mistake of thinking, well, I'm already paying this mortgage amount, so I shouldn't charge my parent for a share -- no. Even if your home is big enough that you don't have to make any changes to accommodate your family member, he or she should still share those basic expenses, unless there's really no money available. If not, resentments will arise down the line. Again, this may need to be made clear to siblings.

 

[Cinder]

Thank you all so much for your support.
I'm busily drowning sorrows in a large glass of wine and second guessing every penny of expenditure.
I will take a look at your links with interest -
Thank you all again.
So much love on these pages!



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[flossielime]

I think her giving you something toward her rent/ keep is perfectly acceptable. I think where you may have gone wrong with the family is terming it 'rent'. Maybe jsut calling the whole lot expenses may have gone down better. I have looked after my dad and mother and law both with dementia and have covered my expenses. So for example I did all their food shopping and as I spent so much time looking after them - I used their money to pay for food delivery charge. When my children were pre school and I needed to take dad or MIL to medical appointment, I needed to put the kids in nursery - i would pay for the extra day out of their money. It needs to be reasonable.

You time is money too - you must be spending a lot of time doing all the things someone with dementia needs doing. What are the relatives doing - enjoying their free time.

However, I now have a query about a sibling wanting free board lodging and pay - which i think is going too far - Ill post about that on another thread!

 

[Cinder]

Thank you flossielime-
I hadn't even considered time as an expense!



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[nicoise]

I think that a £300 contribution to your household bills which also includes a care element is very reasonable for your MIL when compared to the cost of visiting care at home in addition to running a flat/house, or residential care.

I see you also had a thread where you asked about using using a portion of MIL's house sale proceeds to improve your house to aid her care.

I think that this may form part of your in-law's concerns about what is happening with MIL's money; that you might benefit from caring from her in a way they will not.

Sadly money seems to cause almost as many problems within families as the disease itself at times.

Hopefully your records of expenditure and MIL's personal financial records will exonerate you, but I suspect family relations may be somewhat more difficult to heal after all this.

 

[Cinder]

Yes- we haven't yet been able build because of planning problems - & now legal ones!
The agreement was that she would stop paying rent once the extension was built as it would add value to our house. We have also insisted on being written out of the will so any remain assets she has go to her 2 daughters. I didn't include it in this post as I didn't want to cloud the issue of fair rent.
Although, sadly it's more relevant now.



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[Cinder]

I should point out that MIL is disabled with severe mobility problems, hence the need to build downstairs facilities for her. This was all agreed with her family last year.
There is a very messy back story regarding her other son which I don't really want to get into, but suffice to say he is buying a home with her money (which was always her wish - long before she got ill) and she is currently supporting him completely financially. (Rent and bills and an allowance). But as I say, I don't really want to get into that as it is her wish to do so and she should be able to spend her money as she pleases as long as it doesn't affect her care.


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[Miss Merlot]

Oh God Cinder. How stressful this all must be for you. What does hubby think...? It's his family doing this after all...

I am sure things will turn out in your favour in the end, but what a load of stress for you and yours in the meantime.

Keep us updated on here xx

 

[Karjo]

I should point out that MIL is disabled with severe mobility problems, hence the need to build downstairs facilities for her. This was all agreed with her family last year.
There is a very messy back story regarding her other son which I don't really want to get into, but suffice to say he is buying a home with her money (which was always her wish - long before she got ill) and she is currently supporting him completely financially. (Rent and bills and an allowance). But as I say, I don't really want to get into that as it is her wish to do so and she should be able to spend her money as she pleases as long as it doesn't affect her care.



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maybe this is the main problem as I presume the sibling who is not beneftting from Mum buying his home and supporting him is worried, and maybe rightly so. This may well be classed as deprivation of assets if there was ever a need to have LA funded care. If money is paid out from income so that capital is not built up this could maybe be explained or viewed differently for inheritance tax purposes (though not necessarily so for the LA) Taking money from capital though, which is not in your Mum's interests, may well be viewed as deprivation of assets as it seems to be in her son's interests rather than Mum's interests. i am not sure even if it was your mum's wishes that it is ok. If it was we would maybe all be doing it.

 

[Cinder]

Yes Karjo,
I think maybe it is at the route of some of the problems. Hence why we the solicitor was involved to start, as once she was diagnosed everything came to a halt. I'm sure some of the allegations against us are just a means of sticking two fingers up at us. Although why is beyond me.
Once someone says it's unfair tho, you start second-guessing yourself. Which is why I asked the initial question without padding out any of the messy details. Opinions untainted by the family bickering are so much more helpful!
Miss Merlot- thanks for your support. It is a truly horrid experience and will only get worse before it is resolved.
Hubby has a very stressful job and is struggling to cope. He is just so shocked and disappointed by their behaviour.



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[lexy]

Hi-
I'm a lurker here and occasional poster.
My MIL lives with us full time.
She has done for 18 months.
My two children started to share a room so she could move in.
We are currently charging her £300 a month for her room. (We charge for her share of bills/food etc separately). Recently my husbands family have been kicking up a stink about this & saying it is too much and that we should be charging no rent at all.
We had always thought we were being very fair as we have a hefty mortgage (and she is living in the house too) and rooms in our area are on average £500 pcm.
Does anyone have an opinion either way?
If we are being unreasonable I would prefer to know...




When my mum and I lived together in a home we purchased together (paid half each) so that I could care for her I split all the utility/food bills down the middle. I only received Carer's Allowance but would never charge my mum for caring for her, I cared for her because I loved her and wanted to look after her.

The fact that you have a hefty mortgage is really nothing to do with your mum, that was your choice, however, if you have had to "sacrifice" a room for your mum and your children are now sharing a room that is obviously a bit inconvenient for you. I don't know the ages of your children, but I believe when they reach a certain age a boy and a girl are not supposed to share the same room.

I'm sure your relatives won't like it as you have said, but what are they prepared to do in order to care for your MIL or help you? If they are anything like my brother was that will be "stuff all"