EPA - Sorry if I've repeated this question but can't find my original one

[Norfolkgirl]

Unregistered EPA appointed me and "R" jointly only in 2007 over mum (starting to lose capacity).
I find out by chance that according to a bank letter dated 2010 to mum, it was addressed to her as well as "R" stating his name in brackets acting as POA i.e. not including my name as jointly appointed, just his.
Would it be deemed suspicious if there were two EPAs existing concurrently, one appointing "R" only (over mum) and another appointing jointly "R" and me (over mum) at same time?

 

[jeany123]

Hi sorry i cant answer your question but this might be your other thread
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?65900-EPA-joint-appointee-query

 

[jenniferpa]

An EPA can be used without registration if there is nothing in it to say it can't.

There can't be two EPA's existing concurrently (in the sense that in order to make a second one, the first would have to be formally revoked). Was the EPA jointly and severally, or just jointly? Because if the former then I think it could be lodged with the bank by just one attorney.

Also bear in mind that October 2007 was the last point that an EPA could be made. After that it would be an LPA.

 

[lexy]

deleted

 

[jenniferpa]

I had EPA in 2006 to look after my mum's affairs, property and financial, it does not have to be registered.

There is no longer EPA it is LPA, I think, but I am not sure EPA taken out before the law changed in 2007 is still valid.

Yes, an EPA is still valid.

 

[Jessbow]

Check the wording - are you appointed jointly or Jointly and severally?

 

[Norfolkgirl]

An EPA can be used without registration if there is nothing in it to say it can't.

There can't be two EPA's existing concurrently (in the sense that in order to make a second one, the first would have to be formally revoked). Was the EPA jointly and severally, or just jointly? Because if the former then I think it could be lodged with the bank by just one attorney.

Also bear in mind that October 2007 was the last point that an EPA could be made. After that it would be an LPA.

The EPA was jointly only between me and "R". The first one, at that time, was never revoked. Not sure if anyone would know if this could be deemed "illegal"?

For those who may be unsure, the EPA was already in existence, but unregistered, since early 2007 and able to be used without any restrictions. This was not affected by the changes in October 2007 where new LPAs replaced EPAs and where LPAs had to be registered before being used (where EPAs previous to Oct 2007 could be used, even without being registered).

 

[nitram]

If the first EPA was not revoked then as far as the OPG are concerned the second one does not exist.

If the first EPA contained an error preventing it from being being registered this might mean that the OPG would accept the second EPA providing of course that it did not contain an error.

If you think the donor is loosing capacity to fully handle their financial affairs you as an attorney have a duty to register the EPA with the OPG. If the original EPA cannot be found the OPG might accept a copy of the certified copy that the bank should hold.

If the donor has capacity get them to make an LPA. When filling in lpa002 to register the LPA put something like 'The donor made a previous EPA which has not been registered and will not be registered nor is there any intention of registering it' in Part 7

 

[Norfolkgirl]

If the first EPA was not revoked then as far as the OPG are concerned the second one does not exist.

If the first EPA contained an error preventing it from being being registered this might mean that the OPG would accept the second EPA providing of course that it did not contain an error.

If you think the donor is loosing capacity to fully handle their financial affairs you as an attorney have a duty to register the EPA with the OPG. If the original EPA cannot be found the OPG might accept a copy of the certified copy that the bank should hold.

If the donor has capacity get them to make an LPA. When filling in lpa002 to register the LPA put something like 'The donor made a previous EPA which has not been registered and will not be registered nor is there any intention of registering it' in Part 7

Hi Nitram thanks your advices which are in the context of potential error/mistakes being made. I can assure you there are no mistakes or inadvertent slip ups, but rather that "R" was and is acting fraudulently and I was trying to establish from anyone on TP as to what is reasonable behaviour in terms of having two EPAs (one being joint only between myself and "R") and another appointing "R" only (according to the bank's letter) - with both EPAs existing concurrently, for fraudulent reasons.

 

[Norfolkgirl]

Have you asked the bank if they have your name as Attorney as well as 'R's - if you tell them that you are joint attorney (as far as you know) they may tell you, as you aren't asking for any other details? If they refuse to tell you, or if they say only R is down as Attorney, then it may just be a slip up on their part, or it could be that he is acting fraudulently. If you think that he is then get on to the OPG and take their advice.

The bank won't discuss anything with me because the second and only EPA, lodged with them, is just the one in the name of mum and "R" as POA. This bank was based outside of our locality. The account has since closed down anyway in 2010. OPG cannot do anything because the EPA wasn't registered with them and therefore out of their jurisdiction. (In the meantime the EPA was revoked and a new LPA created appointing the fraudster and his accomplice! i.e. not including me this time, I wonder why?!)

The first joint EPA was never lodged with any bank as I/we managed to have mum come along with us to the local bank she used and so there were no issues there/then.

Thanks all those who responded. I just wanted to hear what other TP posters thought.

 

[Norfolkgirl]

An EPA can be used without registration if there is nothing in it to say it can't.

There can't be two EPA's existing concurrently (in the sense that in order to make a second one, the first would have to be formally revoked). Was the EPA jointly and severally, or just jointly? Because if the former then I think it could be lodged with the bank by just one attorney.

Also bear in mind that October 2007 was the last point that an EPA could be made. After that it would be an LPA.

An update, I just spoke to OPG. They said a donor can (before Oct 2007 providing they have mental capacity) create as many EPAs as they wish and appoint whoever they wish. This means there is no restriction to have more than one existing concurrently. BUT the OPG did say this is not recommended as it could cause conflict.