Duty or love

[Margaret W]

I don't know where to come in on this. There have been some things said on the supporting threads that I really didn't understand.

My beloved, wonderful dad died in 2005. Days before he died he said to me "Watch out for your mum, she is losing it". I had not a clue what he meant. I only know that they had been married for 55 years and in that time my dad had done everything he could to make life good for my mum. She was his priority. So when he died, she was my priority too. I took over where he left off.

At first it was all normal stuff. I took her shopping every week cos she had no transport to do it herself, and she came to us every Sunday for a meal. It was then that I realised how utterly boring she was. No conversation. It had always been my dad making the conversation, with mum nodding here and there. But now she was on her own it was dreadful. I thought, crikey, is this what my dad endured for 55 years?

But I carried on. Soon she was diagnosed with AD, found wandering at night, care home needed. I chose one I thought dad would approve of. I looked out for her. Fought her corner when there were problems. Sorted out the finances. Made sure she had decent clothes. Organised visits from rellies. Took her out to the park. Brought her to my home on occasions, with great anxiety as to how it might work - or not. It worked.

I didn't want to do any of it. I got no thanks for it. Only "I don't want to be here, why have you put me here", and similar. I was waiting for the "your dad would never have put me here", but once she was diagnosed with AD she forgot him completely. Those 55 years never existed again. My dad was never mentioned.

So I did it out of duty. The question of her choosing someone else to do it couldn't arise. There was no-one else. Just me. I did a good job. But I didn't want to do it. I did it cos my dad would have expected me to. I did my duty.

I don't need to apologise to anyone for that. I don't need to justify it. I don't say I got pleasure out of it. But yes, I was proud of myself for rising to the challenge of caring for someone that I had rather not had the need to care for.

My mother never knew any of this. She thought I did it cos I was a loving daughter. She was always glad to see me, had trust in me too, she knew I would sort out any problems for her. Which I did.

I don't much like some of the comments on this post about people who look after loved ones and would rather not do it. And I definitely don't like the comment that if you can't be looked after by someone who loves you, they can stuff their duty where the sun don't shine. I could very easily have stuffed my duty there. Who would have looked after my mum then? King Kong? or maybe Gordon Brown? Don't tell me that I did wrong in looking after my mother despite not loving her. Get lost.

Margaret

 

[ellejay]

If the World was even and people who needed care had choices,
would they choose you?

My mum wouldn't, she would choose my sister, but my sister died, so there's me.
I care for my mum like Margaret W cared for hers. (Except for the Dad asking me to look out for her, he got out as soon as my sis & I were married & settled , & my step dad did the decent thing & died when mum told him to).

So I do the best I can for her,I feel sad that she's in the situation she's in, lets face it, you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy, but I do it because it's my responsibility &, yes, duty.

Lin x

 

[garnuft]

I say again.
I would rather be looked after by a fleet of strangers than be cared for by one family member who would rather not.
I stand by my words.
Gwen

 

[garnuft]

I don't understand how you can say so freely Margaret that your Mum trusted you and seem so easy with the reason why it was misplaced . Not her money, not her care...her love.
Don't you see at all why I should feel uncomfortable with your statement?
Don't you?
You can feel as you feel, I accept that but I feel my way too and it is totally different from yours,
Gwen

 

[jenniferpa]

I don't understand how you can say so freely Margaret that your Mum trusted you and seem so easy with the reason why it was misplaced . Not her money, not her care...her love.
Don't you see at all why I should feel uncomfortable with your statement?
Don't you?
You can feel as you feel, I accept that but I feel my way too and it is totally different from yours,
Gwen

I thought we had established that people are free to say how they feel here. I think the point is that if Margaret is easy with her decision then only Margaret is in a position to say if that was right or wrong for her.

I was lucky - I had a mother who was always very clear that she loved me and it was no hardship at all to love her. And she was a person who, for the most part, was "easy" in her dementia. The most difficult things I had to deal with were logistical matters (apart of course from the guilt of not being there).

It's because of that that I am in awe of carers who continue to care when the person they are caring for is in no way lovable. Whatever the reason they do it, I bow my head in respect for them.

 

[Onlyme]

I don't much like some of the comments on this post about people who look after loved ones and would rather not do it. And I definitely don't like the comment that if you can't be looked after by someone who loves you, they can stuff their duty where the sun don't shine. I could very easily have stuffed my duty there. Who would have looked after my mum then? King Kong? or maybe Gordon Brown? Don't tell me that I did wrong in looking after my mother despite not loving her. Get lost.

I totally agree. My family washed their hands which left only me and Social Services. SS decided I responsible and and walked away.

 

[Margaret W]

I don't get your point at all Gwen. If indeed, there is a point. And I don't quite see why you need to make a point at all, unless it is to upset me. Which it isn't doing, so perhaps there is no point in you making it.

My mum trusted me cos she knew I was a good person.

I have no idea what you mean by suggesting that I felt "so easy with the reason why (her confidence) was misplaced".

First of all, nothing was misplaced. I object strongly to your suggestion that my mother's confidence in me was misplaced. Who are you to suggest such a thing? You dont know me at all. My mother was confident in me cos she knew I was a good person. She knew I would do the best for her. I was her husband's daughter. I am a reliable and conscientious person. Nobody who knows me would say any different. Who are you to suggest otherwise?

I didn't feel easy at all about my mother's acceptance of my decisions for her. I would much have preferred her to have a say. And indeed she did have a say. When we chose a care home for her, I took her to visit the various homes, and together we chose the one she was to move into.

She had absolutely no idea about finances. She thought she was penniless. She wasn't. I used her capital and income carefully to provide her with sufficient funds to keep her in our chosen home for the rest of her life. I have no idea to what you were referring when you mentioned "not her money". Can you please explain this comment? Are you suggesting my use of her money was inappropriate?

I don't need to justify myself to you. I didn't realise it was your thread. I thought it was Hollycat's thread, and I have great sympathy with her. Sorry Hollycat for all this rubbish on your thread.

I suggest Gwen that you have a look at your motives for slating me on this thread, and reconsider what you have implied to me.

I mean no upset to anyone, at any time, and don't expect to be so upset myself.

Margaret

 

[garnuft]

It seems I can't win regardless of how I respond.
I don't agree that duty is good enough.
And I would be uncomfortable patting myself on the back if it was me.
Gwen

 

[garnuft]

I was not suggesting at all that money was inappropriatley used.
My reference, as was the reference of this thread, was love or Duty.
I said ' Not money, not care but love' to paraphrase, because you said your mother thought you cared for her as a loving daughter.
Then you went on to describe how love was not part of it.

She thought I did it cos I was a loving daughter.

I did not slate you on this thread.
You do not understand why I am uncomfortable with what you said.

We will have to just disagree.

 

[tp18]

Margaret, what you have said makes sense to me, since I am pretty much in the same situation. You do not have to explain yourself (and of course neither do I, or Hollycat )

Gwen, as said before, this place should be about freedom of speech, but it isnt about winning. How other people feel, is about how THEY feel. Its ok to feel differently, and to say so of course. A difference of opinion though, is just that, as you have rightly said. What is right for one person, may not be right for another.

 

[meme]

to me the word duty in this scenario is loaded with many things, none of them particularly positive...I also would prefer a carer from outside rather than a family member who did not love or particularly like me...the reason being family cannot disconnect from emotions and feelings and resentments no matter how they try or believe they do, and this could and probably would colour the dutifull caring.

 

[LadyA]

Even though I care for Wm now because I love him, and am determined to keep him at home because that's where he wants to be, I have to say that even through the times when I desperately wanted out of the situation, when he was in his bullying controlling phase, I still would (and did) care for him - and at that phase, I did not love what he had become. If he hadn't been ill, I would have left. I stayed and took care of him purely because I felt it was the right thing to do, there was no-one else. He gets the same quality of care now that that his real personality has come out, and he is the man I fell in love with again. The difference that love has made I think, is that it makes the care a bit easier on me - somehow it doesn't feel as big a burden as it did. Still exhausting, still stressful, but not as overwhelming.

Army Personnel are expected to do their duty, and a soldier who does is praised and honoured. I'm sure most soldiers don't do what they have to do because they love the work. They do it because as a soldier, it is their duty.

Sorry for taking you up wrong Gwen by the way - late night!

Personally, I believe caring can be done very well out of a sense of duty - if the person wants to do it, and can do it without rancour or resentment.

 

[hollycat]

I don't understand how anyone can think that another person would want to be in the condition that they find themselves trapped and lost within.
They do NOT do it as as test to 'carers'....
If you hate your life dealing with Alzheimer's, free the person that is trapped.
It is their life too and you are not a Hero unless you give it freely.
That is my opinion.

Gwen XXX

Gwen

If you read back my ealier posts, I agree with you that I don't want someone to care for ME out of duty.....so we do have common ground.

The difference is OH and I have done something about that for OUR future; my mum is so stubborn, she hasn't.

You intimate above that you don't understand why we stay trapped as carers........trust me, there I days when I feel the same......so we have further common ground there.

I don't consider myself a hero in anyway, I am merely trying to do the best thing by my family and freely admit I do it out of duty and not love. I don't even consider myself a dutyful daughter because I have been brought up with moral values of

IF YOU CAN'T DO SOMETHING FOR YOUR OWN, WHO CAN YOU DO IT FOR ?

I personally admire EVERYBODY on TP that cares for their loved ones for whatever reason.

I post this in peace and hope for mutual respect and understanding for BOTH our opinions.

As I say, if you read back through my replies, you will find that I do actually agree with quite a lot of what you say

 

[hollycat]

Margaret, Lin, Onlyme, Tp18 and lady A

Thanks for you personal experiences.

 

[hollycat]

to me the word duty in this scenario is loaded with many things, none of them particularly positive...I also would prefer a carer from outside rather than a family member who did not love or particularly like me...the reason being family cannot disconnect from emotions and feelings and resentments no matter how they try or believe they do, and this could and probably would colour the dutifull caring.

The word DUTY in ANY scenario can be loaded with many things....agree.

I too would not want a relative caring for me out of duty......agree (OH and I have taken action to avoid this for ourselves, mum hasn't/didn't)

Family cannot disconnect from emotions and feelings........disagree. I say this very calmly and do not wish to offend, but the statement is a very sweeping/cover everyone statement......life just isn't that simple. IMO, there are people in life who can detach themselves emotionally. When there is no LOVE from your mum, it makes CARE easier (again, just my opinion). If CH staff, nurses, doctors etc all loved their patients/users I think the system has the potential to struggle.

Sorry, but didn't understand what you meant by "colour the dutyfull caring".

 

[Isabella41]

Everyone has a reason/motive/driving factor behind why they do what they do. This applies to all areas of our lives not just caring. We are all born with an inbuilt moral code and then our upbringing adds our values, judgements, ethics, faith etc. If you add all these vairables together you get a picture of how different people will react to the same set of circumstances. For example some people do not have a problem with going into a large supermarket and helping themselves to whatever they fancy. Those same people wouldn't dream of stealing from a small corner shop. Their rationale? The big supermarket can afford it. For others they see no problem in using their hand to disicpline their child but would be horrified at the thought of raising their hand to strike their spouse if they did something not pleasing to them.

In my own circumstances I care for my mother as for me its the right thing to do. No I cannot honestly say I love her to bits. Back in the summer when the going was really tough there were days when I really felt pushed to just walk away but I didn't. I live by a deeply held christian belief and for me that is what drives me. I believe one day I will stand before a holy God and will be asked to give an account of myself and how I lived whilst on earth. I believe strongly in treating others the way I want to be treated. I don't have to like someone to treat them with respect, courtesy and kindness.

I fail to see how someone being looked after by a family member who is caring for reasons other than deep seated love is worse than being cared for by complete strangers who are paid to do the bare minimum. At least with family there is more of a chance that the level and standard of care will be to a higher level.

Isabella

 

[Padraig]

It is very edifying for me to read these posts. As someone who never had the experience of growing up with parents, family or someone who cared or I trusted.
When I found love for the first time I was hooked, line and sinker. An all consuming love was the power that drove me to care for my wife. She was my savour and inspiration. I hate to contemplate what life might of been without meeting her. Others of my ilk were not so lucky.
Maybe I was selfish in not wishing to be parted from her for just a moment of her life.

 

[Fed Up]

I have no idea who is right and why, just think if you want a gold medal learn a sport and compete.

If not then like most of us, you do what you can because you can then then have a moan 'cos it makes you feel better. But have you always disliked your mum as her being ill just makes an existing problem worse and could impact on your health.

I once said to my gp that I hated my mum (she had been mentally ill for over 40 years before Alzheimers took hold as well) and it was hard to cope he said no you don't you hate an illness thats robbed you of time and a normal life. He was wise and it was true. Perhaps some counselling could help you and do ask for help as bitterness only hurts you and you are as important as your mum and her illness.

 

[marsaday]

Of course, given the choice we would all choose a loving carer rather than a dutiful carer. But when you have dementia if the choice is between a dutiful daughter and a stranger you are going to want the dutiful daughter because she is comfortable and familiar to you whether or not she really loves you. And in caring dutifully there can be some tender moments that maybe weren't possible pre-dementia.
From a dutiful daughter.
M

 

[hollycat]

Isabella

The Christian belief is an interesting angle that has not entered the discussion so far; thanks for mentioning it.

Padraig

As usual, I am lost for words. I find your posts on TP very inspirational and thought provoking.

Marsaday

I still sit in hope of a tender moment. It is a little sad, but I honestly have no expectations. I find if I have no expectations that any glimmer e.g. A thanks, will feel amazing.

I suppose there is one thing with AD, one never knows what is around the corner.