Dad wants to go in a care home…..

[canary]

This is my worry. If there’s no homes that accept challenging behaviour if/when it happens then where is dad meant to go?

It depends on what the home means by "challenging behaviour". If this means normal dementia behaviour like resisting personal care, being up during the night and going into other peoples rooms, then there will definitely be homes that will accept him. If you are talking about violence, though (which most people with dementia never demonstrate), then sectioning is the answer and then they will be the ones to find somewhere.

Not all homes are the same and they all have their own criteria of what they will accept.

 

[SMBeach]

It depends on what the home means by "challenging behaviour". If this means normal dementia behaviour like resisting personal care, being up during the night and going into other peoples rooms, then there will definitely be homes that will accept him. If you are talking about violence, though (which most people with dementia never demonstrate), then sectioning is the answer and then they will be the ones to find somewhere.

Not all homes are the same and they all have their own criteria of what they will accept.

Ah ok. Thank you. I had assumed violent behaviour may be common in dementia patients. Dad certainly isn’t challenging. His caters and everyone who meets him says he’s such a gentleman so hopefully there won’t be too much change that way as things progress.

 

[canary]

I had assumed violent behaviour may be common in dementia patients.

Most good dementia homes will accept a bit of aggression and know how to defuse it. When mum first moved into her care home she hit one of the carers with her walking stick and I was horrified . The home was totally unfazed, though, and said not to worry, no-one was injured and they knew how to prevent it happening again. There were never any further episodes.

A different resident was known to get quite angry and the staff worked hard at diverting him and preventing him from being triggered (I also suspect that he was getting meds for it), so there were actually very few problems. Eventually as the dementia progressed the aggression abated.

There was another resident though, who became very angry, could not be diverted and attacked another resident putting his hands round her neck. He was sectioned the same day.

Does this help in seeing the difference?

In the 3 years that mum was there I think there were only a couple of residents that had to be sectioned. That level of aggression is not unknown, but its only a minority of people with dementia.

 

[SMBeach]

Most good dementia homes will accept a bit of aggression and know how to defuse it. When mum first moved into her care home she hit one of the carers with her walking stick and I was horrified . The home was totally unfazed, though, and said not to worry, no-one was injured and they knew how to prevent it happening again. There were never any further episodes.

A different resident was known to get quite angry and the staff worked hard at diverting him and preventing him from being triggered (I also suspect that he was getting meds for it), so there were actually very few problems. Eventually as the dementia progressed the aggression abated.

There was another resident though, who became very angry, could not be diverted and attacked another resident putting his hands round her neck. He was sectioned the same day.

Does this help in seeing the difference?

In the 3 years that mum was there I think there were only a couple of residents that had to be sectioned. That level of aggression is not unknown, but its only a minority of people with dementia.

Thank you. That does help ease the mind somewhat.

 

[jugglingmum]

When I looked for a home for my mum I only looked at EMI dementia homes, not care homes that take dementia. I only looked at a few (this was back in early 2022 when many care homes were often locked down for covid) and the 2 I liked made clear that violence was not acceptable but issues around personal care were.

Having read your previous threads you do have a job on your hands. My mum had significant funds and I was quite happy to use them to pay for things I just would be overwhelmed with.

I used a private social worker to do the preselection from websites and ring round care homes for vacancies (for some reason no waiting lists in my area so had to call on a week by week basis). She would have preinspected care homes as well if required but as they were local to me I did that.. If your dad isn't in too rural an area of Scotland then you might be able to find one that could do this for you, ultimately cheaper than the cost of travelling up there to do this yourself. I found the one I used via Google and she charged £90 an hour but actually did a fixed fee quote. It was value for money and reduced my stress levels considerably.

 

[SMBeach]

When I looked for a home for my mum I only looked at EMI dementia homes, not care homes that take dementia. I only looked at a few (this was back in early 2022 when many care homes were often locked down for covid) and the 2 I liked made clear that violence was not acceptable but issues around personal care were.

Having read your previous threads you do have a job on your hands. My mum had significant funds and I was quite happy to use them to pay for things I just would be overwhelmed with.

I used a private social worker to do the preselection from websites and ring round care homes for vacancies (for some reason no waiting lists in my area so had to call on a week by week basis). She would have preinspected care homes as well if required but as they were local to me I did that.. If your dad isn't in too rural an area of Scotland then you might be able to find one that could do this for you, ultimately cheaper than the cost of travelling up there to do this yourself. I found the one I used via Google and she charged £90 an hour but actually did a fixed fee quote. It was value for money and reduced my stress levels considerably.

How interesting. I didn’t know there were private social workers. Learn something new every day. Thank you.

 

[CharlotteScr]

Hmmmmm. Here is a less rosy-tinted view. In my experience so far, after a week of phoning round 50+ care homes- almost all, and certainly any you would be willing to leave your mum in, will not accept aggressive patients, even if the aggression is only associated with care (ie no danger to other residents). My Mum can't get around on her own, but when you have to move her for any care, she is aggressive and violent- punching, scratching, lashing out etc etc, along with terrible threats and abuse. She is on lorazepam, but it doesn't seem to do much. My elderly Dad cannot cope despite help from me and carers. We have 2 very unattractive options open that i can see: either put her into one of the very few poorly-rated places locally that will accept her type of behaviour, or get her sectioned. Which would probably end up with her in the unsafe home anyway within 3 months. Social services have not helped beyond mobility aids (!) and increasing carer visits. I am sorry that this is a very downbeat post but i have had enough of the comforting lies told about alzheimers' care provision.

 

[SeaSwallow]

Hmmmmm. Here is a less rosy-tinted view. In my experience so far, after a week of phoning round 50+ care homes- almost all, and certainly any you would be willing to leave your mum in, will not accept aggressive patients, even if the aggression is only associated with care (ie no danger to other residents). My Mum can't get around on her own, but when you have to move her for any care, she is aggressive and violent- punching, scratching, lashing out etc etc, along with terrible threats and abuse. She is on lorazepam, but it doesn't seem to do much. My elderly Dad cannot cope despite help from me and carers. We have 2 very unattractive options open that i can see: either put her into one of the very few poorly-rated places locally that will accept her type of behaviour, or get her sectioned. Which would probably end up with her in the unsafe home anyway within 3 months. Social services have not helped beyond mobility aids (!) and increasing carer visits. I am sorry that this is a very downbeat post but i have had enough of the comforting lies told about alzheimers' care provision.

Hello @CharlotteScr I am sorry to read about the difficulties that you and your dad are having. A number of our members have found that sectioning has led to the people that they care eventually being placed in care home that meet their specific needs.
Have you visited any of the poorly rated homes because things can change over time and you might be surprised at the level of care offered.
In the meantime I would suggest that you contact social services again explaining how difficult things are for you and your dad.

 

[Jessbow]

Hmmmmm. Here is a less rosy-tinted view. In my experience so far, after a week of phoning round 50+ care homes- almost all, and certainly any you would be willing to leave your mum in, will not accept aggressive patients, even if the aggression is only associated with care (ie no danger to other residents). My Mum can't get around on her own, but when you have to move her for any care, she is aggressive and violent- punching, scratching, lashing out etc etc, along with terrible threats and abuse. She is on lorazepam, but it doesn't seem to do much. My elderly Dad cannot cope despite help from me and carers. We have 2 very unattractive options open that i can see: either put her into one of the very few poorly-rated places locally that will accept her type of behaviour, or get her sectioned. Which would probably end up with her in the unsafe home anyway within 3 months. Social services have not helped beyond mobility aids (!) and increasing carer visits. I am sorry that this is a very downbeat post but i have had enough of the comforting lies told about alzheimers' care provision.

How many of them were EMI homes?
Dont dismiss sectioning- outcomes are often better than you imagine they could be.

 

[SAP]

@CharlotteScr My mum was sectioned and eventually place in a home that did not look good on CQC. We literally had no choice so she went there to be on a specialist support unit. Although the home needs updating the staff are amazing and my mum is the most content I've seen her for a while. Sectioning is a bit scary when it happens but due to this the mental health team were able to pinpoint a trigger to mums aggression and put together a care plan to mitigate this. It definitely worked out for the best.

 

[Chizz]

@CharlotteScr My mum was sectioned and eventually place in a home that did not look good on CQC. We literally had no choice so she went there to be on a specialist support unit. Although the home needs updating the staff are amazing and my mum is the most content I've seen her for a while. Sectioning is a bit scary when it happens but due to this the mental health team were able to pinpoint a trigger to mums aggression and put together a care plan to mitigate this. It definitely worked out for the best.

Good t hear that @SAP

 

[RuralTownie]

If we fly, I’d have to go to Scotland go get his photo done for a passport and make an application in his behalf.

Speak to the airline but he should only need government issued photo ID. This could be his bus pass. And if he doesn't have that either then applying for one is certainly cheaper and easier (and more useful) than getting a passport.

 

[SMBeach]

Speak to the airline but he should only need government issued photo ID. This could be his bus pass. And if he doesn't have that either then applying for one is certainly cheaper and easier (and more useful) than getting a passport.

Good to know. Thank you.

 

[CharlotteScr]

@CharlotteScr My mum was sectioned and eventually place in a home that did not look good on CQC. We literally had no choice so she went there to be on a specialist support unit. Although the home needs updating the staff are amazing and my mum is the most content I've seen her for a while. Sectioning is a bit scary when it happens but due to this the mental health team were able to pinpoint a trigger to mums aggression and put together a care plan to mitigate this. It definitely worked out for the best.

Thanks everyone for the comments. We have seen the social worker twice in the last few weeks, the consultant from the memory clinic and 2 OTs, and yet we are still in the same position- inadequate drugs for Mum, my father covered in bruises and unable to ever leave the house, me driving 100s of miles a week to try and support him. Trying to get actual practical help is like trying to nail fog to the wall. She has been rejected from 2 further care homes and the other 2 'no longer have places'. the 50+ i mention above included EMI homes- in practice when i describe Mum they say 'we already have 5 like that, we can't take any more'. The only option left open to us now is sectioning, which I will set in motion later today although my dad is strongly opposed. It is an awful situation and i am sure we cannot be the only ones in this position. Thank you all for your supportive comments

 

[SAP]

The only option left open to us now is sectioning, which I will set in motion later today although my dad is strongly opposed. It is an awful situation and i am sure we cannot be the only ones in this position

This link may help .

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/nearest-relative/sectioning-and-guardianships/#WhenCanMyNearestRelativeSectionMeOrPlaceMeUnderAGuardianship

As you can see you still need to apply and have your application verified 2 drs. I would be calling the crisis team every day to get things moving.

 

[Weasell]

What is wrong with sectioning?

Far greater staff numbers than in a care home?

Staff on Agenda for change pay rates far higher than in the private sector?

staff required to keep their training level at near 100 per cent?

Access to medications, and the ability to swiftly change any medications that are not working.

Continual risk assessment in place, as the needs of the patients rise, extra shifts get put out to bank.

You are definitely making the right decision.