Coconut Oil

[JPG1]

I'm not against the idea of alternative therapies. Just too tired to read the posts.

Izzy, you are not compelled to read them or to comment on them, in any way shape or form, especially if you are too tired. So don't worry about that - just leave them to those of us who do read them and who perhaps draw some comfort and support from them.

Take care Izzy.

 

[Canadian Joanne]

try to convince many TP members of the power of alternative ways of thinking about some of the issues you've mentioned..

This forum is not about convincing members of alternative ways of thinking, it is about support and sharing experiences regarding dementia.

Giving personal anecdotal information once is one thing but to try and convert people is not appropriate. If someone disagrees, it doesn't necessarily make them wrong or uninformed. It means they disagree, as they are entitled to.

 

[Izzy]

Izzy, you are not compelled to read them or to comment on them, in any way shape or form, especially if you are too tired. So don't worry about that - just leave them to those of us who do read them and who perhaps draw some comfort and support from them.

Take care Izzy.

I only wrote that as I felt an implied criticism.

 

[JPG1]

If someone disagrees, it doesn't necessarily make them wrong or uninformed. It means they disagree, as they are entitled to.

Each every member is entitled to their own opinion, of course. As is each member entitled to disagree with a Moderator's view.

Why should someone not be allowed to think? And to consider all experiences of their life which may at some point have enormous impact on the lack of research into dementia at present?

I will stand up proudly if at any point in the future someone comes along and says "well, that load of research that we said was codswallop then turned out to have more behind it after all".

Edited to add: current bids = zero; current max bid required = £0.01p. Hours after the former celebrity's dirty clothing was posted by Alz Soc as a way to raise funds for dementia.

But I'll only hold my head up high if I haven't dissed that whole piece of research at the time which may just have had the golden nugget of dementia in its kernel.

As for converting and convincing members of the forum about 'the right way to think about certain things' - give me strength, please, to acknowledge each and every time we are all encouraged to offer our prayers up, and to support the 200,000 posts of one single member, even though 199,999 of those posts may not have reflected our own experience of dementia.

Intelligent beings do exist who are able to think as intelligently thinking independent human beings. And we must applaud that, and not be cowed by those who disagree with our views.

Otherwise we might as well all throw in the towel now. And admit that dementia has defeated us all.

I will not allow that defeat by dementia, and nor will many other members.

And if the Alz Soc can call upon the 'unwashed underwear and clothing' of a former celebrity - that most of us haven't seen or heard of for more years than dementia has been in our lives - to raise funds for dementia, then so can the unverified thinking of someone like Ted and others find a place on Talking Point.

You may not find those posts represent your view of support, but others of us may find them of enormous support. And all in the name of DEMENTIA too.

I apologise for my distress, but as I said earlier today, this has been a very difficult day for me, personally. And I'm dealing with my own personal stress in the best way I can - and that has included supporting a few people on this forum too.

So back off, World! Back out of my Living Well with Dementia Life. Shame on me, for caring.

Current bid for the dirty unwashed clothing of a former once-was celebrity = zero; maximum bid at present to move things forward = £0.01p.

 

[joannesford]

A lot of information regarding the scientific studies relating to the Ketogenic diet can be found at this site

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/fibromyalgiacured/

And from that site you can obtain information about other sites that deal with specific issues, including using the Ketogenic diet for Alzheimers

After joining that site you can do one of two things, either introduce yourself and ask what you want to ask ie you could say 'how do I find out about the ketogenic diet?'. Or you can go into the search box half way down the main page and place the word 'youtube'. then lots and lots of blogs relating to the ketogenic diet will come up

The site mentioned above is simply an information site and they do not sell anything there

Lots of love joanne

Kind regards Joanne

 

[TinaT]

I'm not 'giving in' in any way to dementia, never have and never will! If anyone is going to tell me that this suppliment or that suppliment is going to cure/alieviate dementia I want more proof than I've seen on these pages which I'm sorry but to me are unreadable!

xxTinaT

 

[TedHutchinson]

If anyone is going to tell me that this suppliment or that suppliment is going to cure/alieviate dementia I want more proof than I've seen on these pages which I'm sorry but to me are unreadable! xxTinaT

I'm sorry that you haven't yet understood that no one is trying to sell you a supplement.

What I have been trying to show is that the brain of people with dementia may need a different kind of fuel to the brain of normal adults.

Earlier I pointed out that my local hospital has been criticized for failing to ensure it's elderly patients were able to actually consume the food put out for them to eat. Some needed to see the food was within reach others needed to be supported to an upright position in order to eat and others needed feeding.

I hope you can all understand the failure to enable patients to eat is as important as the failure to provide food.

However there is another failure that maybe doctors and some readers here haven't yet understood.
That is the disease process in Alzheimer's damages the ability to metabolize glucose.

Since 1994 we have known there is an Altered energy metabolism in Alzheimer's disease

The global cerebral glucose metabolic rate (CMRGlu) had significantly low value, ......The cerebral metabolic rates of ketone bodies and free fatty acids were unchanged.

Here is a another example Cumulative evidence suggests that the brain in aging and AD actively adapts to the progressive fuel deprivation. The counterregulatory mechanisms aim to preserve glucose for anabolic needs and promote the oxidative utilization of ketone bodies.

So for over 20 years we have known that AD patients have a lower ability to use glucose but the alternative brain fuel, ketones, remains unchanged.

In the same way it is pointless putting food in front of AD patients if they cannot see it or reach it or comprehend that it is there, it is also pointless to only supply them with food their damaged brains cannot use.

The research shows the ability to metabolise glucose is damaged but the ability to metabolise ketones (from Coconut oil or from Medium Chain Triglyceride Oil) remains undamaged.

Do you think it's important to enable people with AD to be fed?

Do you think it's important for people to be fed food their brains still retain the ability to metabolise?

 

[joannesford]

If anybody here does decide to try a ketogenic diet you will I think need some support from somewhere. You can send me a PM and I will tell you where I get my support

Anyway, I have already listed a fair few useful sites on the Internet, and as I recall which books I have used and any youtube blogs I have used I will list them too. In the meantime, if you have time, (I would say you would need an hour and a half to watch this) you may want to watch this movie

This movie is not about a person with Alzheimers or even demetia, it is about a little boy who has Epilepsy. But this little boy is put on a Ketogenic Diet by his doctor, and when he is....................... Well I will let you see this for yourself

I have decided to post this movie because when I originally watched this it had an enormous impact on me, and from that day onwards I knew exactly how I would start getting well and how I would also help my dad, and later on a few other people too

http://www.naturalhealthstrategies.com/ketogenic-diet-movie.html

Kindest regards

Joanne

 

[joannesford]

I do not think I can return to the site for a while

Now, I cannot be certain when I will be able to return to the site, I may be able to come back soon, or it may be a while. I don't know. But I want those of you that are considering doing this to understand a few things

First of all this kind of lifestyle is much easier than it first appears, but unforunately because we are not used to it and we do not know what we are doing we really do need to be in constant contact with at least one person that knows what they are talking about.

I have left a few addresses here and there of folk on the web that I know can help you, and if I think of any more I will post them too.

The other thing is this. This style of eating really is not that rare in the USA. And, it is not just poorly people that eat like this, plenty of very active, never been seriously poorly people eat like this too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY9ceulkVzs

Eskimos eat like this

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

Lots of Christians eat like this

http://www.biblelife.org/lowcarb.htm

And the story goes on and on

I know even with all the evidence that I have given you, doubts will remain. It will niggle you. What if I are wrong?????????????


But................... What if I are right? What if I happen to be telling you the truth? What if I do know something that you simply don't know because nobody is telling you?

Could this be possible?

Well I am going to tell you now. It most definately is possible, more than possible, for some of you it is going to be your dead cert!!!!!!!!!!!

For some it may not work. I know it does not always work for the children with Epilepsy, but listen, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

If you try this and it does not work, then my advice is to find a different version. There are several versions on the Internet, and somewhere somebody will have a version that matches your needs

Here is some more info on some of the different versions but there are actually more versions than this, but at least this is a start

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

Now, me and my dad are on slightly different versions

I am on a 100% natural food version with only basic supplements, ie Vitamin A,B,C,D,E Calcium and Magnesium that are made from totally natural sources

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/healingnaturallybybee/

Where as my dads is more of an MCT Oil diet. Kind of like the Atkins Induction, where he can eat low carb bars, shakes, ryvetta etc, but his supplement regime is still quit strict and he does have to have plenty of MCT Oil and coconut oil daily

This UK charity may be able to advise you as to any groups for Alzheimers currently, or soon to be set up in the UK

http://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/AboutEpilepsy/Treatment/Ketogenicdiet

Regardless of how you decide to do this I would inform your doctor. And I think a lot of you will be surprised as to just how supportive some GPs can be,especially if you take journals with you backing up the research so far, and you show them the many many USA sites that are already up and running and helping their family memebers get right.

I am going to have to leave it here for now. and just wish you all the best of luck. Just keep googling and googling, you will be amazed at what turns up. And there is plenty on Youtube too, see Gary Taubes, Sean Croxton, Dr Mercola, Weston Price foundation, Bruce Fife, The Paleo diet, The stoneage diet, Crossfit, the Atkins diet, etc

And before folk warn you about the cholestrol, please see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF1Ysf3JDR8

but if you are still worried about the cholestrol all you can do is buy a cholestrol testing kit and see how you go

Honestly, if you are commited and you do scour the Internet and find a doctor, dietician, nutritionalist etc, that does know about this, or wants to know about this you will find somebody.

I did, and my dad did, and my aunt did, and many of my friends did. We have our advisors and they are great and now we all help each other and that is just as great.

Life is too short to be living in a forgotten era, and honestly in just a few years that low fat thing is going to have to be a lost era, to many illnesses have come from that

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/diseases_index.html

And not only that you are worth more than all that

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc35tx_ketogenic-diet-fatty-food-a-cure-fo_news

And

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOu4ZcPmKVI

And if you get on youtube, google, yahoo and where ever you will find more of these amazing stories too

I know, I know, this is too good to be true. This is why I am going now. The ball is in your court. You either research it and do it and make your dreams come true, or you say what a load of humdrum..................... Mmmmmmmm humdrum ? We will see

All my love joanne

 

[missmo]

It seems whilst my compputer has been sick that I have missed a lot so could not contribute to the thread, I would like to know as much as possible about the ketogenic diet and thank all the above people for all the information they have provided.

thank you mo

 

[TedHutchinson]

Ketogenesis is the natural process by which ketone bodies are produced, mainly from the mitochondria of liver cells, as a result of a decrease in plasma insulin following lower plasma glucose.

Normally insulin levels rise as a result of higher blood glucose levels to keep free fatty acids locked in adipose tissue (fat cells) while the high level of glucose is used up.

So when glucose is used up insulin falls and free fatty acids are liberated into the plasma.
The fat is carried to the liver and other organs where it's converted (b-oxidized) to acetyl CoA.
When the concentration of acetyl CoA builds up in the liver enzymes condense it into ketones.
So the important point is that ketone production naturally results from low plasma glucose and insulin.
Ketone production does not induce ketoacidosis because it is regulated automatically.

So your brain is always prepared to burn ketones as they become available; a situation totally consistent with their normal role as the brain's main backup fuel.

When the brain is burning ketones the rate of blood flow through the brain increases which partly explains their beneficial impact on improved cognition.
It seems a shame, particularly when we know glucose metabolism is compromised, not to encourage/enable the seamless replacement of glucose with ketones to meet the brain’s compromised energy requirements.

PS. Edit to add In rats, the absence of dietary carbohydrates per se does not induce ketosis. Low-carbohydrate/high-fat diets must be high in fat, but also low in protein contents to be clearly ketogenic. While this is from a rat study and humans evolved to deal with fat better than rats (gallbladder)it is sometimes the case that people doing Atkin's type induction (less than 20g carbs initially) do not automatically create ketones as seamlessly as expected. It is possible including coconut oil or MCT oil (another source of Medium Chain Triglycerides) in the diet prior to carbohydrate reduction would add sufficient fat that is readily used and easily converted to ketones.

 

[sunshine12]

Hi All,

I have just read about the effects of this on the internet, do you know where you can buy it from in the UK? Also does anyone have any success stories with it?

Thanks

 

[TedHutchinson]

Hi All,

I have just read about the effects of this on the internet, do you know where you can buy it from in the UK? Also does anyone have any success stories with it?

Thanks

Jimmy Moore talks to Bruce Fife about beating Alzheimer's disease with healthy coconut oil You may want to save it to your computer and use Windows Media to listen to it so you can move to the middle of the talk to where the section with Bruce fife begins.

I've put some suggestions for where to buy Coconut oil in This thread in Jimmy's forum

Holland and Barrett charge £12.59 and it's not the Extra Virgin organic so the Coconoil people I suggest are a better buy as they do a 3 pack of virgin CO for £21.49 delivered free. Bruce Fife is suggesting 5 tablespoons daily so you'd be getting through it pretty quickly at that rate. The bulk buys 10kg or 20kg work out cheaper but I think you ought to see if you can tolerate it first before going for the bulk buy option.
I have no financial interest any source of Coconut oil. But as you need quite a bit you need as cheap a source as possible.

I use it for cooking my breakfast eggs/bacon/veggies every morning, I then use it in my salad dressing with olive oil at lunchtime and then for frying onions/spices when preparing curries/casseroles/stews. I also add some to my coffee (in the place of cream) You can also add it to smoothies I know some people just take it in a spoon but I don't really like it like that so just incorporating it into my ordinary cooking in place of cooking oil/butter seems to work fine.

I'd suggest you start low and build up slowly. Virgin Coconut oil has antinociceptive and anti-inflammatory activities so they may change the nature of your gut flora to those that prefer a lower inflammatory status, these are generally the lean type gut flora. The problem is that some people feel nauseous during the time the gut-flora is adapting to the change in inflammatory status and the pathogenic bacteria of dying off and having to be got rid of.

Alzheimer’s and Coconut Oil: How coconut oil gave me back my brain

 

[piedwarbler]

All this is fascinating, but makes my simple brain hurt. Can you tell me simply, is butter good or bad? Milk? Olive oil? Should I use the coconut oil all the time? I just followed one of these links and it said as a breast cancer sufferer I should eat no fruit but lots of animal fats. Does that mean roast beef, or lard?
I'm confused!!

 

[BeckyJan]

it said as a breast cancer sufferer I should eat no fruit but lots of animal fats. Does that mean roast beef, or lard?

Pied: Personally that advice sounds suspect to me - I would stick with your normal healthy diet and stick with the advice of your own medics. I also believe a normal healthy attitude towards food is less problematic and causes less stress.

 

[TedHutchinson]

All this is fascinating, but makes my simple brain hurt.

Unfortunately it is painful to read the latest science and discover how our health professionals have been gullible and mistaken and so have misled us into thinking the traditional fats that humans have relied on throughout human history are in not safe but in fact it's oils like SOY and CORN oil, introduced over the last 100yrs, cause increased inflammation and damage results.

Can you tell me simply, is butter good or bad?

There isn't a SIMPLE answer because your butter may not be the same as the butter I use. I am able to drive up the road to a farm that has cows that go outdoors into fields with grass, they are happy cows and are well looked after. The cheese, raw milk and butter made/sold at the farm are excellent and just like the milk/cheese/butter I ate as a boy. (except a lot more expensive) It's likely that Most of butter sold in the UK is still outdoor pasture fed BUT some of our readers here are from the USA/Canada and I cannot guarantee that all USA/CANADIAN butter is from pastured cows. If your an "Archers" fan you'll know the plans for a mega herd where the grass is brought to the cows and they stay indoors. So no Vitamin D in the cows/milk, greater reliance on pelleted foods (more omega 6 in diet=less omega 3 in milk/butter/cheese= more inflammation) New Zealand butter (anchor) and Irish is still reliably outdoor grass fed.

Milk?

Ideally RAW but that's hard to find and expensive. Definitely needs to be WHOLE or Channel Island (high fat) It's the traditional FATs in food that create the satiety hormones that put the brakes on our appetite. When you take the fat out of food (as well as the flavour) you also remove the hormones that control hunger. The ILEUM is at the end of our small intestine and only when that detects fat does the system register we've eaten sufficient.

Low fat foods cause overeating and obesity in the same way removing the brakes from cars would cause more accidents.

Olive oil?

This is a traditional oil that is produced simply by compressing the olive. (try squeezing soybeans and see how much oil comes out) If you added a tablespoon of oil with each meal you ate you would find you ate less food as your satiety hormones would be triggered and you'd stay satisfied longer (so eat less) However although olive oil is traditional and a healthy part of the Mediterranean diet it doesn't offer the Medium Chain Triglycerides that are part of Coconut oil and Butter. Babies brains/hearts expect to obtain MCT from mothers milk to provide an instant fuel. The brains of people with AD are damaged and are less able to rely on glucose metabolism so although AD sufferer's may crave sweet foods the brain may not be able to handle glucose and their brains may function better when they have access to a fuel they can handle.

Should I use the coconut oil all the time?

I use is in all my cooking, alongside butter, and olive oil. I started using it to lose weight and improve my anti inflammatory status but it has other properties that are too numerous to detail now.

I just followed one of these links and it said as a breast cancer sufferer I should eat no fruit but lots of animal fats

It depends on the source and the quality of the evidence they are relying on. There is a full text paper online called CANCER as a METABOLIC DISEASE by Thomas Seyfried that goes into more detail and another recent paper discussing The use of Low Carbohydrate Diets in cancer treatment. Simply put the fuel cancer tumours prefer and which enables them to grow fastest is glucose so those foods that raise blood glucose high and fast and are easily and quickly consumed/digested are most likely to promote cancer initiation and growth.
Unfortunately while animal fats (dripping/lard) used to be more healthy (the animals lived outdoors ate mainly grass/root veggies, much pork/chicken is raised indoors and fed on omega 6 rich grain based diet so the meat/fat now caused inflammation and raises the omega 6 levels of our omega 3<>omega 6 ratio.
We can only safely handle an omega 6<> ratio around 5<>1 and many people now have ratios around 20<>1 and while mega dosing on fish oil (omega 3) helps to cut alter the balance the long term solution is not to consume so much omega 6 oil and industrially produced meats. There are other reasons why we have to worry about intensively produced meat but that is another story that is too complicated to discuss in this thread.

Does that mean roast beef,

For UK readers roast beef from UK herds should be fine as MOST is mainly raised in fields outdoors. US readers must assume that feedlot beef is intensively produced and extremely high in omega 6. Only grass raised and finished beef will have an acceptable omega 3 ratio.

or lard?

It is possible AT A PRICE to buy traditional lard from organically fed traditionally raised outdoor pigs (But too expensive for me) I don't think a little lard from the supermarket shelf will do much harm if you are also getting plenty of omega 3 in your diet but industrially produced lard from intensively raised indoor pigs will increase inflammation rather than resolve it.

I'm confused!!

The more I read and learn about nutrition the more difficult it becomes to try to explain what constitutes a healthy diet. However the explosion in obesity/diabetes/Alzheimer's/cancer/heart-disease has occurred over the last 100yrs and can be associated with the changes in inflammatory status of our diets oils/fats, grains/sugars.

We are now eating too much grain/sugar/fructose and too much omega 6 rich foods while our lifestyles raise inflammation levels (increased stress=increased cortisol=more inflammation=lower vitamin d) we are also not making sufficient MELATONIN (too much light after dusk and during the night) and again like vitamin d melatonin is an anti inflammatory antioxidant that affects everything our body/brain does.

 

[TedHutchinson]

Pied: Personally that advice sounds suspect to me - I would stick with your normal healthy diet and stick with the advice of your own medics. I also believe a normal healthy attitude towards food is less problematic and causes less stress.

How Bad Science and Big Business Created the Obesity Epidemic This talk may help you understand that the basis of what constitutes a HEALTHY DIET as proposed by most health practitioners may actually be promoting obesity and ill health.

How can you stop a car without brakes?
How does the digestive system signal to the brain we've consumed sufficient food if not by registering the fat content reaching the ileum. Low fat diets prevent the satiety hormones being produced, result people consume more and are hungrier.

We have to try to keep up to date with the latest scientific evidence.
The Netherlands Journal of Medicine: Saturated fat, carbohydrates and cardiovascular disease
and not keep repeating the mistakes of the last 30 years.

 

[virg]

Question

I'm sorry if I'm being a bit thick about this. I've read through the thread but there is so much to take in and so many links that I haven't got time to follow at the moment. Does the diet followed have to be low carb for the coconut oil to be of use or could just adding Coconut oil into someone's diet potentially help for Alzheimers?

(I've ordered a book and will follow some of the links when I have more time but wondered if anyone could answer that query in the meantime).

Thanks

 

[TedHutchinson]

Does the diet followed have to be low carb for the coconut oil to be of use or could just adding Coconut oil into someone's diet potentially help for Alzheimers?

Adding coconut oil to your diet, (by having a spoonful before meals or in your coffee) should be of benefit in providing an alternative fuel source for the brain and so reduce reliance on carbohydrate/glucose metabolism.
Hopefully instead of increasing your total daily calorie intake as It's the fat content of your meals that produces the satiety hormones that tell your brain you've eaten sufficient.
I use CO as my main cooking oil for preparing meals.
However, it is better if you can also reduce the refined carbohydrate and sugar content of current diet to reduce the time blood glucose levels are elevated. I think it's a good idea to make the substitution over a period of time. You will find that the use of CO will over time improve the inflammatory status of the digestive system by reducing proinflammatory cytokine levels. Changing the inflammatory nature of your digestive system is a slow business and so you need to persist with the changes over months if not years.

 

[piedwarbler]

Thanks Ted for your really patient & detailed reply. I have to say my gut instinct has always been to eat butter and full fat milk and avoid spreads and fat free food. My grandparents lived into their 90s on such a diet. I was dismayed to get cancer. Maybe it's linked to the stress I've felt over the last ten years. I certainly haven't slept well for a few years. Who knows? Maybe it's just bad luck. But thanks anyway. I don't know what to eat really, some say no dairy, some say high dairy, I've tried to cut down on caffeine and have almost cut out alcohol. I've tried to up my fibre. And up my exercise.
I tried manuka honey for my hiatus hernia. Not sure really what else I can do without becoming obsessed.