CHC: Finally after 18 months of legal quibbling...

[Dave63]

That sounds like great news @Palerider

It's encouraging that NHS England got back to you so quickly with regard to getting things resolved. It also highlights the difference in how these issues are addressed by those at a national level compared to those at a regional level (ICB's).

The fact we need to use legal advocates to navigate the web of deceit ICB's weave is proof that the system is broken and morally reprehensible.

 

[Palerider]

I have just received news that the CHC are now going to reimburse in full mums care costs and they will now continue to pay for her care. Finally! It has been a tough exercise in resilience with some real low points at times, but perseverance does pay off and a bit of gumption to take things into your own hands with a bit of the right guidance too. Tonight is worthy of a drink or two of something expensive and fizzy -now where the hell did I put that bottle?

 

[Scarlet Lady]

That’s marvellous news, @Palerider ! It would be even better if it came with a fulsome apology, but that’s probably too much to ask…Offering a virtual toast to your perseverance and fortitude. 🥂👏 Well done!

 

[GillP]

@Palerider, such good news. You have worked relentlessly to achieve this for your Mum. Well done. I hope that you are able to channel some of your energy into doing something for you. You deserve to treat yourself and try to unwind.

Sorry, I know that is difficult to do. Carers are always on alert but give it a go ....

 

[Palerider]

@Palerider, such good news. You have worked relentlessly to achieve this for your Mum. Well done. I hope that you are able to channel some of your energy into doing something for you. You deserve to treat yourself and try to unwind.

Sorry, I know that is difficult to do. Carers are always on alert but give it a go ....

Thanks @GillP - I will be framing the letter from the CHC and hanging on my wall.

 

[Palerider]

That’s marvellous news, @Palerider ! It would be even better if it came with a fulsome apology, but that’s probably too much to ask…Offering a virtual toast to your perseverance and fortitude. 🥂👏 Well done!

There has been no acknowledgement of any of the issues I raised in my email but I am taking the win. I will be carrying through my complaint with the Parliamentary Health Ombudsman that I can assure you.

 

[Helly68]

@Palerider - so glad to hear some positive news. The whole process has been awful, I think you are right to continue your complaint.

 

[Grannie G]

Well done @Palerider

 

[Izzy]

Excellent news @Palerider. Well done!

 

[Dave63]

Great news @Palerider. Enjoy the well earned bottle (or two )

 

[Palerider]

Thanks everyone, it has not been the easiest of things I have had to battle but we are here.

I went to visit mum today and the CH administrator answered the door to me and straight away she said well done, you've done it and went on to say she has been contacted by the CHC and they will start to pay mums ongoing care fees from 20th September. The care home management generally tend to not get involved but I think she was stunned that we had finally got the right outcome she said you have got to be 'dogmatic' I said your damn right you do. Its taken 2 years and 7 months of constant being on it with some real low points and not letting ourselves to be fobbed off, I have to say the last ditch attempt by the ICB to again shake this off was the trigger for me to go on the offensive and write to the NHSE -There was no way having got this far I was willing to allow them to fob us off again. It is going to take some time to come down off the constant adrenaline drive. My brain still hasn't quite grasped that I don't have to fight this anymore.

Mums legal team have got a bit sour because I have asked for a partial refund for work they have not undertaken, so I will be having a conversation tomorrow morning with their director -I am expecting to come to a resolution with them in that phone call.

 

[Elle3]

Excellent news, so pleased your persistence has paid off, saying very well done, sounds very underwhelming after all you have been through, but WELL DONE anyway. Cheers.🥂

I wonder if you can get compensation for all the lost interest you would have had if you hadn't had to pay for care costs??

 

[Dave63]

I wonder if you can get compensation for all the lost interest you would have had if you hadn't had to pay for care costs??

As part of the NHS Redress Guidance 2015, they will be obliged to pay compound interest at RPI on the reimbursement.

 

[Palerider]

Excellent news, so pleased your persistence has paid off, saying very well done, sounds very underwhelming after all you have been through, but WELL DONE anyway. Cheers.🥂

I wonder if you can get compensation for all the lost interest you would have had if you hadn't had to pay for care costs??

Thank you

I hadn't considered compensation, but @Dave63 has clarified that. For me the main point about it all was the principle and how initially the decision to remove mums funding was highly dubious and done in a very underhanded way -that got my back more than anything when this all started. If anything it sends another signal to the local CHC that not everyone is going to be fobbed off, no matter how long or how much it takes to prove the point. I admit it did get very stressful towards the end of it all, but it was worth it mostly to show how inept the decision making was in my mums case. The NHSE take a very dim view of ICB's not honouring a review panels finding -it is important to know that should the need arise when all else fails to put pen to paper or send an email.

 

[Dave63]

Hi @Palerider

When you complained to NHSE was it the Regional NHS Executive you emailed?

The reason I'm asking is because yesterday I emailed the NW NHS Executive about the MLCSU and their unacceptable mistakes resulting in mum not having received any reimbursement, nor the nursing home being paid any care package payments for almost six months. A complaint I submitted to the ICB over 40 working days ago has also not been responded to.

I got a reply 30 minutes later redirecting my 'enquiry' to the ICS. Is the ICS not just the ICB? The NHS has so many three letter acronyms I get lost understanding who's who

I also checked the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman website and they updated their method of handling complaints in May this year. The way I read it they're saying - we have limited resources and can't investigate every complaint so unless your head is hanging off don't bother contacting us, and even we do look at your complaint it will take up to six months to do anything about it.

Service update | Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (PHSO)

Last updated: 21 March 2024Changes to the way we handle complaints about the NHSWe've changed the way we handle complaints about the NHS. We have reviewed the approach we took during the pandemic and decided to embed that into our casework process.We now only look further into the more serious...

www.ombudsman.org.uk

 

[Palerider]

Hi @Palerider

When you complained to NHSE was it the Regional NHS Executive you emailed?

The reason I'm asking is because yesterday I emailed the NW NHS Executive about the MLCSU and their unacceptable mistakes resulting in mum not having received any reimbursement, nor the nursing home being paid any care package payments for almost six months. A complaint I submitted to the ICB over 40 working days ago has also not been responded to.

I got a reply 30 minutes later redirecting my 'enquiry' to the ICS. Is the ICS not just the ICB? The NHS has so many three letter acronyms I get lost understanding who's who

I also checked the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman website and they updated their method of handling complaints in May this year. The way I read it they're saying - we have limited resources and can't investigate every complaint so unless your head is hanging off don't bother contacting us, and even we do look at your complaint it will take up to six months to do anything about it.

Service update | Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (PHSO)

Last updated: 21 March 2024Changes to the way we handle complaints about the NHSWe've changed the way we handle complaints about the NHS. We have reviewed the approach we took during the pandemic and decided to embed that into our casework process.We now only look further into the more serious...

www.ombudsman.org.uk

ICS stands for Integrated Care System, each ICS has an Integrated Care Board (ICB). What you need to do is find out who your ICB accountable officer is and contact them directly I would email and also try to have a verbal conversation with them. Your ICB accountable officer should be identifiable in any communication you have received from the ICB. Sadly its all very confusing compared to the old system because of course the focus now is integrated care -yes another buzz term replacing older buzz terms of which the reality likely will never be realised.

 

[Dave63]

Can't find any mention of an accountable officer in any of my communications with the ICB. I've emailed the ICB patient experience team with a copy of my previous complaint and a copy of my email to the regional NHSE and asked for it to passed to someone with overall oversight of MLCSU in the hope they can be jump started into communicating with me. The fact it's taken six months so far is inexcusable, but the really annoying thing is their complete refusal to communicate at all with either myself or the care home.

After almost three years of shenanigans I would have thought the Redress stage would have been relatively straightforward but they've managed to turn it into something Heath Robinson would be proud of!!

 

[Palerider]

Can't find any mention of an accountable officer in any of my communications with the ICB. I've emailed the ICB patient experience team with a copy of my previous complaint and a copy of my email to the regional NHSE and asked for it to passed to someone with overall oversight of MLCSU in the hope they can be jump started into communicating with me. The fact it's taken six months so far is inexcusable, but the really annoying thing is their complete refusal to communicate at all with either myself or the care home.

After almost three years of shenanigans I would have thought the Redress stage would have been relatively straightforward but they've managed to turn it into something Heath Robinson would be proud of!!

If all else fails then contact the regional board members, you should find your region on this page if you scroll down:

NHS England » Integrated care system leadership and websites

www.england.nhs.uk

 

[Dave63]

If all else fails then contact the regional board members, you should find your region on this page if you scroll down:

Tried that but they replied redirecting me back to ICB.
I did get a call this morning from the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman to acknowledge my complaint and advised to forward the response from the patient experience team once they've completed their investigation. Problem is the PE Team emailed me yesterday to advise that the CHC team had not given them enough information to formulate a response to the complaint so it's been sent back to them. That's after two months since the complaint was submitted and now the PE Team are saying they'll need at least another month before they can respond. In the meantime mum hasn't seen anything of the reimbursement and the care home have not been paid.

It wouldn't be so bad if someone just admitted that they've made an unholy mess of things and they're trying to get things sorted and gave us a time frame for when that will happen, but they just completely ignore any communication from us. It's absolutely infuriating.

 

[Palerider]

Tried that but they replied redirecting me back to ICB.
I did get a call this morning from the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman to acknowledge my complaint and advised to forward the response from the patient experience team once they've completed their investigation. Problem is the PE Team emailed me yesterday to advise that the CHC team had not given them enough information to formulate a response to the complaint so it's been sent back to them. That's after two months since the complaint was submitted and now the PE Team are saying they'll need at least another month before they can respond. In the meantime mum hasn't seen anything of the reimbursement and the care home have not been paid.

It wouldn't be so bad if someone just admitted that they've made an unholy mess of things and they're trying to get things sorted and gave us a time frame for when that will happen, but they just completely ignore any communication from us. It's absolutely infuriating.

It doesn't surprise at all. It gets pretty tiring after so long having to constantly challenge and fight everything in the dementia world. Today I was driving back from visiting my mum and was thinking about the start of this journey and how deflated I am 8 years on. People do get surprised when they realise I don't suffer fools anymore, but that is because the system is so broken I have learned to put my foot down rather than being 'nice' about things, that's not to say I am aggressive but most definitely assertive when I have to be. It's a big shame in many ways in having to change in that way because fundamentally it's not something I like having to do, but there isn't much else to fall back on as no one has ya back.