Carehome Visits

[Louise7]

Mum's care home recently started allowing visits again but a staff member and resident have now tested positive so visits are suspended again. Even if the lateral flow tests are rolled out to every care home I really can't see things getting back to some sort of 'normality' until a vaccine is rolled out

 

[Palerider]

Thanks @Palerider, I knew that one of the human rights acts something about entitlement to family life, was no longer applicable due to covid regulation as the "need to keep others (residents and staff) safe" overruled it? Did this element of the Human Rights act say residents MUST be able to have visits from family, because this is what I feel a law should say, and as I mentioned in my comment previously, care homes supported to achieve this.
The Winter Plan by Government @MartinWL stated that covid positive patients can be discharged from hospital to care homes ( if this could be done safely, through isolating/ cohorts get etc), but it seems obvious, and has proven in Chaplin's mum's home that it can not be done safely. Lessons not learned from last Spring! How can care homes be treated in this way?

Indeed we need clarification. There are complexities involved with this and care homes are in many ways 'the piggy in the middle' or the buffers of the situation. As yet there has been no direct legal challenge to the events that happened in the first wave in care homes, and I suspect it would be very difficult to bring a case given the current Coronavirus Act being invoked. A public inquiry I think should take place at some point so that there is learning from the events in the first wave. Liability is a tough cookie, because if those discharging into care homes have indemnity where does that leave the care home which has no indemity? I appreciate that things had to be done quickly at the start of this pandemic, but its time that there was a closer look at the Catch-22 we now find ourselves in overall.

 

[Louise7]

As yet there has been no direct legal challenge to the events that happened in the first wave in care homes, and I suspect it would be very difficult to bring a case given the current Coronavirus Act being invoked.

The attempt at a Judicial Review in respect of hospital patients being discharged into care homes has succeeded in getting through the first stage today:

Woman wins first stage of legal challenge over protecting care homes from Covid

Dr Cathy Gardner was granted permission for a full hearing of her challenge.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[Palerider]

The attempt at a Judicial Review in respect of hospital patients being discharged into care homes has succeeded in getting through the first stage today:

Woman wins first stage of legal challenge over protecting care homes from Covid

Dr Cathy Gardner was granted permission for a full hearing of her challenge.

www.shropshirestar.com

Thanks @Louise7 for the update. I was remaining silent and didn't expect that today. It will be interesting to see where this now will end with the potential for some very serious legal outcomes for those organisations involved. I hope that this will also impact on the current situation with visiting in care homes as in convention with the Human Rights Act -for various reasons

 

[Palerider]

In contemplation of the growing facts and case so far there is one possible outcome that takes GNM further to Corporate Manslaughter. I wonder if when Mr Justice Linden said “I consider it in the interests of justice for the claim to be heard.” he actually meant there were further possible claims to be made around such law -it remains to be seen but if the judicial review is upheld then that opens up a can of worms.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Incredibly, The Department for Health and Social Care have only just launched a consultation to consult on a proposal to stop staff movement between different care settings in adult social care.

Stopping movement of staff between care settings

We want your views on plans to minimise the risk of coronavirus (COVID-19) infections by making residential and nursing care home providers restrict the movement of care staff.

www.gov.uk

Better late than never to consult on whether to lock the stable door after the horse has already bolted!!

 

[Palerider]

Incredibly, The Department for Health and Social Care have only just launched a consultation to consult on a proposal to stop staff movement between different care settings in adult social care.

Stopping movement of staff between care settings

We want your views on plans to minimise the risk of coronavirus (COVID-19) infections by making residential and nursing care home providers restrict the movement of care staff.

www.gov.uk

Better late than never to consult on whether to lock the stable door after the horse has already bolted!!

Hi @Lone Wolf
I don't want to deviate too much from what this thread is about, but yes I see your point on staffing and preventing movement of staff. However I don't see how this is workable when the adult social care sector was already on its knees before coronavirus.

The Health Foundation 2019 in its release said "The issues in social care are even greater and the outlook is concerning. Workforce shortages stand at around 122,000, with a quarter of staff on a zero-hours contract"

Short of a miracle I am not sure how limiting staff wil impact on the social care sector when many care homes are already under staffed -my mums is one of them running almost on agency staff over the Christmas period. This also won't help with the move in getting visiting re-established. Of course there is a strong argument for limting spread of SARS-COV-2 but as you have already said its a little late in the day.

 

[anxious annie]

Powerful images, words, music from George Gallagher with R4R.
Please share to all personal media to shame Matt in to keeping his promise

#STILLLOCKEDAWAY

 

[Kellyr]

@anxious annie Ive come to the conlusion there is no heart or empathy. ...just a robot without any understanding of our suffering. Even so, we cant give up ?

 

[anxious annie]

I totally agree @Kellyr , no empathy, even where you would expect it most! It is so hard to carry on with this struggle. Thank you for your kind words .

 

[Palerider]

Not being allowed to visit weighs heavily on me some days -last night I couldn't stop dwelling on it and no distraction @anxious annie -it was a long evening

 

[Palerider]

Did anyone see this program last night?

BBC Two - Lockdown 1.0 - Following the Science?

Scientists behind the scenes discuss what really happened in the run up to first lockdown.

www.bbc.co.uk

Somehow the working of the social care sector got missed, not surprisingly as its not as important as the NHS apparently, but then why was the NHS so important if earlier decisions had been made? And why was the social care system seen as a second class citizen. I sincerely hope that these questions are not missed under the current distraction of SARS-COV-2

 

[Kellyr]

@Palerider the problem is only one type of science is being followed which has been found to be the inacurate type! My prediction is that despite the carrots being dangled of rapid tests to enable visiting, they will soon enough be insisting everyone has the jab before theyre allowed in again. If that was the plan, it would explain the unwillingness to sort out this issue much sooner?

 

[Palerider]

My prediction is that despite the carrots being dangled of rapid tests to enable visiting, they will soon enough be insisting everyone has the jab before theyre allowed in again. If that was the plan, it would explain the unwillingness to sort out this issue much sooner?

Yes that thought has crossed my mind a few times now

 

[Louise7]

Somehow the working of the social care sector got missed, not surprisingly as its not as important as the NHS apparently, but then why was the NHS so important if earlier decisions had been made? And why was the social care system seen as a second class citizen.

Having read the details of the vaccine prioritisation, although "older adults' resident in a care home and care home workers" are currently top of the list there is a footnote stating "The final decision on the prioritisation for health and social care workers will be dependent on vaccine characteristics and the epidemiology at the start of any programme"

I hope that doesn't mean that NHS workers might end up getting prioritised over care home workers as that will not help in getting relatives into care homes

[Withdrawn] JCVI: updated interim advice on priority groups for COVID-19 vaccination

www.gov.uk

 

[Palerider]

Having read the details of the vaccine prioritisation, although "older adults' resident in a care home and care home workers" are currently top of the list there is a footnote stating "The final decision on the prioritisation for health and social care workers will be dependent on vaccine characteristics and the epidemiology at the start of any programme"

I hope that doesn't mean that NHS workers might end up getting prioritised over care home workers as that will not help in getting relatives into care homes

[Withdrawn] JCVI: updated interim advice on priority groups for COVID-19 vaccination

www.gov.uk

I hope that plan doesn't change -from what I have heard and seen care homes and staff should be first.

 

[Louise7]

I hope that plan doesn't change -from what I have heard and seen care homes and staff should be first.

Yes, but that was also the case in respect of rapid testing and it hasn't happened yet! I think we'll just have to try to keep positive and hope that the rapid testing promised does actually materialise soon.

 

[Louise7]

Some potentially positive news about rapid testing and care home visits at Christmas just announced within the new tiers/restrictions guidance. This applies to all tiers:

(After 2nd December) Visits to care homes can take place with arrangements such as substantial screens, visiting pods, and window visits. Regular testing will be offered to up to 2 family members or friends per resident by Christmas, which – when combined with other infection-control measures such as PPE – will support indoor visits with physical contact. Detailed guidance will be published shortly.


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/local-restriction-tiers-what-you-need-to-know

 

[lemonbalm]

I thought this may be useful for information: My mum's care home (a small privately run one) are offering the following on 24th, 25th and 26th December (currently only able to do prearranged outdoor walks with carer, both carer and visitor wearing mask and gloves, and visitor maintaining 1 metre distance).

Appointment only 30-minute slots

Only two representatives may visit per resident and they must be tested twice at the care home on both Friday 18th December and Tuesday 22nd December, and return a negative result

Neither representative may visit another care home prior to the visit (they are apparently able to check this)

If two representatives are visiting together, they must comply with the government’s bubble family guidance

Visitors must be willing to take steps to minimise their potential exposure to coronavirus by limiting the number of people they meet for two weeks prior to the visit

A visiting area will be set up which will be cleaned between visitors. All visitors must remain in this area at all times. Masks, gloves and hand gel will be used for all visitors to allow contact with the resident

All the above is subject to the guidance remaining unchanged at the time of visiting and the Government providing the testing kits in time, and results being available in time

 

[Kellyr]

What an absolute unmitigated disaster and so far removed from what pple have been campaigning for. Just reading it is making my head spin and right at the end...only if gov pulls its finger out and delivers the tests!! Pointless!