Husband in care home since February 2023 - dementia. Was not aware it was dementia and left it too late to be able to obtain Power of Attorney. Social services had become involved and applied for appointee - got it - and have informed me that they are applying for deputyship - I have also applied for deputyship after seeing a solicitor. However am worried about what will happen if they get deputyship re finances - at moment they have control of my husband's deferred pension (deferred for 10 years so they are awaiting lump sum they've informed me). My husband's private pension goes into our JOINT bank account - if social services gain deputyship can they take over the joint account also. Can anyone help as unable to afford solicitors fees at £250 an hour.
can someone give me some advice regarding financial issues
- Thread starter Doodlepoodle
- Start date
We’re in a similar position with my mum as she had been wrongly diagnosed and now too late for poa. SS have said they can apply for deputyship. I don’t think my dad could cope with doing it and I’m not sure I can but he’s also worried about the joint account. He keeps asking if he should take out his half and put it in his account. As we have no poa my mum is stuck in hospital even though she should be in a care home as no one has legal access to her money.
My understanding is that Social Services will not control the Deputyship. this is set up for the individual, in your case your husband, and will likely be a solicitors who run it. The lady I type for visits on behalf of the Deputyship to ensure that clients funds are being used appropriately and the client is receiving the care they need and gives the Deputy accountability. The Deputy are usually solicitors but you could also be the Deputy. You could also be a joint Deputy.
I don't have a lot of first hand experience about this, my parents had LPA, only that I have typed reports for 8 years for a Court of protection of office who visits client on behalf of the Deputy. I have never typed a report where Social services have run the Deptyship. they are definitely outside of SS.
I don't know what exactly what happens about your joint account, it does seem to depend on capacity how much control a client has over their own money and I don't have lots of knowledge here but some reports I type a client has a bank card and may still make some decisions but others have no control. Not all clients are dementia, some that I type for have other disabilities.
I think it will vary from case to case, and will take into account, dependents and any debts or liabilities. eg mortgages or property as well as savings. if you share a home together and meet certain criteria the home is disregarded when calculating the value of assets and savings.
From personal experience, depending upon your financial situation and how the care cost are being met, monthly income is used to cover the cost of care. So your husbands pension may be used for that.
My parents owned half of the property we all lived in for many years and I have just had the most horrible year resolving this with social services so that I could stay in my home. The outcome is that my parents income, pension etc is used toward their care fees as their saving are below the minimum threshold. The minimum threshold is approx £25,000. They can keep this amount of savings and when they get to £25k social services will fund the care. The contribution to care is any monthly income.
If you do need a solicitor I can recommend a lady who specialises in care fees. She was amazing, kind and knowledgeable. I would have probably lost my home without her.
I really hope this helps in some way. I feel so much for you as I know how stressful it is coping with all the emotional side of dementia and then this whole learning curve of the legalities on top. It doesn't feel like a care system at all. If there is anything else you need to know I can ask the lady I type for regarding specific questions.
I don't have a lot of first hand experience about this, my parents had LPA, only that I have typed reports for 8 years for a Court of protection of office who visits client on behalf of the Deputy. I have never typed a report where Social services have run the Deptyship. they are definitely outside of SS.
I don't know what exactly what happens about your joint account, it does seem to depend on capacity how much control a client has over their own money and I don't have lots of knowledge here but some reports I type a client has a bank card and may still make some decisions but others have no control. Not all clients are dementia, some that I type for have other disabilities.
I think it will vary from case to case, and will take into account, dependents and any debts or liabilities. eg mortgages or property as well as savings. if you share a home together and meet certain criteria the home is disregarded when calculating the value of assets and savings.
From personal experience, depending upon your financial situation and how the care cost are being met, monthly income is used to cover the cost of care. So your husbands pension may be used for that.
My parents owned half of the property we all lived in for many years and I have just had the most horrible year resolving this with social services so that I could stay in my home. The outcome is that my parents income, pension etc is used toward their care fees as their saving are below the minimum threshold. The minimum threshold is approx £25,000. They can keep this amount of savings and when they get to £25k social services will fund the care. The contribution to care is any monthly income.
If you do need a solicitor I can recommend a lady who specialises in care fees. She was amazing, kind and knowledgeable. I would have probably lost my home without her.
I really hope this helps in some way. I feel so much for you as I know how stressful it is coping with all the emotional side of dementia and then this whole learning curve of the legalities on top. It doesn't feel like a care system at all. If there is anything else you need to know I can ask the lady I type for regarding specific questions.
I had deputyship for my mum. I replied to your other thread
forum.alzheimers.org.uk
It seemed to imply that a deputy had already been appointed and I did not know that you had also applied for deputyship.
Social Services do indeed apply for deputyship @Anon33 , but it will be a panel solicitor that applies on their behalf and would be appointed deputy. When mum moved into her care home she had refused to do POA and I was asked by SS if I was willing to apply for deputyship and, if not, then they would apply.
Have SS definitely applied for deputyship @Doodlepoodle ? If so, you applying as well could make everything very complicated. I think it might be a good idea to phone the Alzheimers Society Help Line on Monday - 0333 150 3456
BTW, normally with deputyship you pay the solicitors fees out of the donors (the person with dementias) savings once you get the deputyship
Help/advice needed
Husband permanent care (since Feb 2023) with dementia. Didn't know way round financial affairs and social service applied for and got appointeeship, and then informed me they had applied for deputyship. They have control of my husband's deferred state pension - am very worried as his private...
forum.alzheimers.org.uk
Social Services do indeed apply for deputyship @Anon33 , but it will be a panel solicitor that applies on their behalf and would be appointed deputy. When mum moved into her care home she had refused to do POA and I was asked by SS if I was willing to apply for deputyship and, if not, then they would apply.
Have SS definitely applied for deputyship @Doodlepoodle ? If so, you applying as well could make everything very complicated. I think it might be a good idea to phone the Alzheimers Society Help Line on Monday - 0333 150 3456
BTW, normally with deputyship you pay the solicitors fees out of the donors (the person with dementias) savings once you get the deputyship
That’s really helpful advice even though I didn’t start this thread! I’ve been in a real quandary about whether to let SS sort out deputyship. My mum doesn’t have capacity so wouldn’t be able to have control over bank accounts but we’re not sure if my dad should take out his half in joint account.
Im sorry to hear this, but it will not apply to @Doodlepoodle as she is a spouse and so long as there is a spouse (or close relative over 60 yrs old) living in the house it will be disregarded from the financial assessment - this is a mandatory disregard and Im assuming that you got a discretionary disregard.
This is on the government website... it suggests the account can stay open and that you and the Deputy will both sign.
I have also asked the lady I type for for advice for you.
Although the joint account holder with capacity will have been notified when the power of attorney was first registered with the bank, it is best practice for the bank to re-notify the customer at the point when the power of attorney is activated.
This is not a legal document or code of practice. It is for guidance only. The guidance applies in England and Wales.
I have also asked the lady I type for for advice for you.
Attorneys acting on behalf of a joint account holder
If one joint account holder loses capacity to operate their account and a registered enduring or lasting power of attorney is in place, then the bank will allow the attorney and the account holder (with capacity) to operate the account independently of each other, unless the account holder (with capacity) objects. In such cases the bank will then usually only allow the account to continue to operate on a ‘both-to-sign’ basis.Although the joint account holder with capacity will have been notified when the power of attorney was first registered with the bank, it is best practice for the bank to re-notify the customer at the point when the power of attorney is activated.
This is not a legal document or code of practice. It is for guidance only. The guidance applies in England and Wales.
yes definitely, it should be a mandatory disregard for spouse but I do know of cases where my local authority are not following the rules. on a personal experience a husband was told to sell his home. ...sadly people don't always know and understand the complex care system.
I don't always think social services staff understand the system. I try to comfort myself that it is ignorance and incompetence. I have typed many reports and social services have not always acted appropriately.
I notice the word "can". Having filled in the annual financial report form for my mum, I would have thought that having finances within that account that belong to someone else and having withdrawals made by that other person for their own use, would make filling in this annual financial report form very tricky
This is what the lady I work for has said..
unless you are able to show that more than half of the savings are yours, they will divide the savings in half. the house cannot be touched while you live in it . regarding income..this will be seperated but you will get a share of his income towards the bills on a jointly owned property. if your income is too low to manage you may be entitled to pension credit. if you try to move and sell a property half the property will then be taken into his finances.
you can also apply for a council tax discount if he is in care.
unless you are able to show that more than half of the savings are yours, they will divide the savings in half. the house cannot be touched while you live in it . regarding income..this will be seperated but you will get a share of his income towards the bills on a jointly owned property. if your income is too low to manage you may be entitled to pension credit. if you try to move and sell a property half the property will then be taken into his finances.
you can also apply for a council tax discount if he is in care.
yes... the can word does carry a lot of weight in that sentence. It is definitely worth having as much information and understanding about the system before making decisions.
That is very true, especially for Social Workers, but the finance department is usually on the ball. Both my mum and my OH have had financial assessments (by different people) and each time I have been impressed by their knowledge and they picked up on exemptions that I did not know about and corrected misinformation I was given by the SW
Social services have treat me like a leper - don't keep me informed re what is going on but are quick to tell me they are appointee (even though when i enquired with DWP about husbands pension, DWP took all my details to be made appointee - never heard anymore even though a member of social services strategy team phoned them (DWP) on my behalf and then told me everything ok, it was going ahead - 2 weeks later social services joyfully told me they were now appointee!!! I worked for 25 years (in admin) for social services but afraid now have a very poor opinion of them and don't trust them at all. My husband has had 4 different social workers in 10 months, none any better than the one they replace, will only communicate with me via email once a week - none of them have ever kept other agencies involved up to date either!! I repeatedly have to correct them on mistakes they make and untrue statements they make. They are an utter disgrace. At 83+, they are making my life a sheer misery. I find them extremely rude, unsupportive and very intimidating (though they do not win there as I will not be intimidated) Does anyone else feel like I do about them.
Yes we’ve had zero contact since first phonecall and people at call centre can be so rude and unsympathetic. If no one has poa or deputyship, how is your husband paying for care home? My mum’s social worker said my dad couldn’t use the joint account to pay as he doesn’t have legal authority
Thankyou for your reply. Live in Redcar, North Yorkshire so solicitor probably too far away for me. Had a lot of trouble getting a solicitor as because SSD were involved they would not act for me!!
They got to be made appointee and have taken over my husbands state pension which was a deferred pension - informed me they are awaiting a lump-sum payment from it (by my calculation about 80 thousand plus interest (10 years).
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