I see your point Jennifer but if that is the case people should be employed if they are giving a chargeable service. I do agree with FifiMo to do otherwise is exploitation of volunteers and the vulnerable. And to have it as a chargeable service as has been said means that those that need it are the least able and unlikely to access it. You would then have a service for those whose relatives can afford it and arrange it and those that couldn't what about them? AS should surely be leading the way for provision for all sufferers not those that can pay and those that can't?
£10 charge for volunteer befriender
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I see your point Jennifer but if that is the case people should be employed if they are giving a chargeable service. I do agree with FifiMo to do otherwise is exploitation of volunteers and the vulnerable. And to have it as a chargeable service as has been said means that those that need it are the least able and unlikely to access it. You would then have a service for those whose relatives can afford it and arrange it and those that couldn't what about them? AS should surely be leading the way for provision for all sufferers not those that can pay and those that can't?
This can be free, go to any church, any religion all run something similar if you ask them.
Trouble is when a big company does it they only see profit and loss, not humanity, empathy or charity.
john.
Trouble is when a big company does it they only see profit and loss, not humanity, empathy or charity.
john.
I really can't speak to what AS should or should not be doing: I'm at most an unpaid volunteer myself and I have no special insight into this situation.
I suppose if I was queen of the world, and there wasn't funding available I would go for a means tested operation (although I suppose that would also increase expenses).
The truth is, there's a lot of situations when you are dealing with dementia that there is a multi-tiered system: we were self-funding so we had choices but a lot of people aren't and don't. If you live in the "wrong" area you may have far fewer options than you might have a few miles down the road. If you have the wrong kind of dementia you may have no access to the support services that are out there.
It's a lottery which ever way you look at it.
I suppose if I was queen of the world, and there wasn't funding available I would go for a means tested operation (although I suppose that would also increase expenses).
The truth is, there's a lot of situations when you are dealing with dementia that there is a multi-tiered system: we were self-funding so we had choices but a lot of people aren't and don't. If you live in the "wrong" area you may have far fewer options than you might have a few miles down the road. If you have the wrong kind of dementia you may have no access to the support services that are out there.
It's a lottery which ever way you look at it.
Charities don't make profits; it all goes back into providing services, research, training, staff, admin. Sometimes contributions are requested to ensure a service can continue if its funding has been cut. Maybe that is what has happened in this case and hopefully someone can clarify this.
As Soobee says, the AS would have to employ someone with the relevant experience to manage the scheme. In some parts of the country, £10 per visit might not be enough to cover the admin costs.
Whenever I've contacted my local AS office, more often than not I've spoken to a volunteer. However, I think it unlikely that office based volunteers would be used to do the admin prior to sending volunteer befrienders out into the community.
It is unclear is whether the befrienders remit overlaps with that of the Dementia Support Workers.
Spiro, volunteers used to do a LOT of the work at a local level, but in many cases they were got rid of (after many years free service) to be replaced by paid "Experts".
Soo, i have no problem with AS making money and putting it back into the company, but when that money is spent on very expensive addreses and very highly paid staff not always with hands on experence of Dementia, well, its just a big company.
John.
Soo, i have no problem with AS making money and putting it back into the company, but when that money is spent on very expensive addreses and very highly paid staff not always with hands on experence of Dementia, well, its just a big company.
John.
We run a volunteer befriending service where I work which has been funded over the last three years plus by the lottery and is funded up to the end of March. (We are looking for further funding)
The befrienders and one admin person are volunteers. The co-ordinator is paid part time and I can vouch for the fact that they spend a lot of time checking the volunteer, basic training re safety etc, matching the volunteer to the person and allied tasks. They certainly work more than their paid for time.
So there is a lot more to running the scheme than would be immediately apparent. However, I do agree that it is not appropriate to make a charge to the "client" as this would exclude many and, as some have said, is often not going to be within the initial intention of the funders of the scheme.
But the money to run such a scheme safely and effectively has to come from somewhere. The Alz Society does some excellent work but sometimes I wonder how things translate down to effective management at a local level - this is just a personal view however.
Not an easy one to solve.
Celia
The befrienders and one admin person are volunteers. The co-ordinator is paid part time and I can vouch for the fact that they spend a lot of time checking the volunteer, basic training re safety etc, matching the volunteer to the person and allied tasks. They certainly work more than their paid for time.
So there is a lot more to running the scheme than would be immediately apparent. However, I do agree that it is not appropriate to make a charge to the "client" as this would exclude many and, as some have said, is often not going to be within the initial intention of the funders of the scheme.
But the money to run such a scheme safely and effectively has to come from somewhere. The Alz Society does some excellent work but sometimes I wonder how things translate down to effective management at a local level - this is just a personal view however.
Not an easy one to solve.
Celia
That's a good point, Jennifer, you are an unpaid volunteer, and we are grateful for that. We pay nothing to use TP although it must cost something. What AS are doing to their service users with regard to the befriending scheme is actually WORSE than charging us to use TP in my view.
If they want to fund a befriending scheme they must raise the money to do so, but not from the befrienders or from the service users.
Hi everyone,
I have been in touch with colleagues in Bristol, who have given me some information about this befriending service and how it is being run.
This is a new service that is being developed by Alzheimer’s Society, and we want it to be open to all. It will be run in addition to a number of other services in the Bristol area (e.g. Singing for the Brain, memory cafes, and information services), which are supported by fundraising income.
Councils are working towards providing people with more personal budgets, and this changes the way that organisations such as Alzheimer’s Society are funded locally.
Some people with dementia will be entitled to personal budgets paid for by the council, which will help them to access services such as this. We will support people to access these benefits as much as we can.
There are a range of costs involved in setting up and maintaining an effective, safe and robust service. These include:
I’d suggest that any Talking Point members who have further questions or concerns that they’d like to raise in relation to this particular service should contact my colleagues in the Bristol area, as they will be best placed to respond.
You can contact either:
Lorna Robertson, Locality Manager by email or on 07889 604 358, or
Paula Shears, Support Services Manager by email or on 07540 920973.
Best wishes,
I have been in touch with colleagues in Bristol, who have given me some information about this befriending service and how it is being run.
This is a new service that is being developed by Alzheimer’s Society, and we want it to be open to all. It will be run in addition to a number of other services in the Bristol area (e.g. Singing for the Brain, memory cafes, and information services), which are supported by fundraising income.
Councils are working towards providing people with more personal budgets, and this changes the way that organisations such as Alzheimer’s Society are funded locally.
Some people with dementia will be entitled to personal budgets paid for by the council, which will help them to access services such as this. We will support people to access these benefits as much as we can.
There are a range of costs involved in setting up and maintaining an effective, safe and robust service. These include:
- Training and support for volunteers
- Expenses
- Staff support
- Information and promotional materials
- Overheads (for example, we need to ensure that lone working procedures are in place, and there is a cost to this, with regard to both staff and office functions).
I’d suggest that any Talking Point members who have further questions or concerns that they’d like to raise in relation to this particular service should contact my colleagues in the Bristol area, as they will be best placed to respond.
You can contact either:
Lorna Robertson, Locality Manager by email or on 07889 604 358, or
Paula Shears, Support Services Manager by email or on 07540 920973.
Best wishes,
Times are changing for all non profits. People are giving less to charities, people have less time to volunteer and most people need paid income well into retirement age and even more in years to come. There are various grants / funding to help provide services but these are not as freely available as they were before these times of cuts and austerity. Charities can no longer rely on fundraising and grants and other sources of income need to be explored. Paying a contribution towards a service is going to be the norm especially for one to one services like befriending. I think as long as there is an open and transparent communication as to where the money is going there shouldn`t be too much of a problem. I rely on a mix of paid staff and volunteers and it works well. We have an ever increasing ageing population and the reality is that at times certain services will have to be paid for if you can afford to do so. As long as the poorest in our communities can access these services either by means of a personal budget from the council or free from the service provider then I see no problem with this. Most volunteers would need at least mileage expenses so I can sort of see where this £10 would be going. CRBs/ training/ scheme co ordinators have been mentioned and there are certainly other costs involved including public liability insurance, telephones etc etc. If the service is only serving a small number of people then obviously there won`t be many people to contribute to the costs which I suspect is what is happening here.
The AS provide many free services but some do need funding.
The AS provide many free services but some do need funding.
I think charging negates the whole concept of 'befriending'
If someone chose to come and have a cup of tea with me as a friend, that would be wonderful, and hopefully we'd become real friends.
If I was paying for the visit, the whole relationship would change.
I know charities are struggling, and expenses have to come from somewhere, but I fear this may be the beginning of the end for the schame, and that would be a pity.
If someone chose to come and have a cup of tea with me as a friend, that would be wonderful, and hopefully we'd become real friends.
If I was paying for the visit, the whole relationship would change.
I know charities are struggling, and expenses have to come from somewhere, but I fear this may be the beginning of the end for the schame, and that would be a pity.
To the best of my knowledge Age UK do not charge, they also have a telephone befriending service.
John.
John.
Another area that self finders in the future could miss out then
I didn't find out about the differences between the local day care until I contacted AgeUk - please note - I had to contact / find out about it as we did not get a social worker as Mum was self funding and I was told they had to put the needs of those without money first.
I totally appreciate that costs are involved and funding needs to be found, but to do it this way, seems unfair to the end user in my opinion.
As I read earlier, self finders have to find money for carers, dial a ride, etc etc so another expense, that also has to be found out about, could put carers off asking for help when they do need all the help they can get.
A small yearly membership charge after 6 months registration for TP, I'm sure, wouldn't put too many off joining, so long as guests still had access to the main forum to get support.
Is this really a new service? The Befrienders service to my knowledge, goes back a few years and the advertised posts going back to 2009/10 are still available. These appear to have previously been paid jobs (at around minimum wage) and all that seems to have changed is that the service is now to be provided by volunteers. My question, if someone can answer it please, is how long have clients been charged for this service? The answer to this question is important to me.
With regards to the Direct Payments, in my experience, you may not be able to pay for this service as the direct payments have rules as to what they can and cannot cover. If you are paying for services outside of your prescribed care needs and the amount of care you require is deemed to be less than previously awarded then your hours can be adjusted downwards.
As always just my views and experiences.
Fiona
With regards to the Direct Payments, in my experience, you may not be able to pay for this service as the direct payments have rules as to what they can and cannot cover. If you are paying for services outside of your prescribed care needs and the amount of care you require is deemed to be less than previously awarded then your hours can be adjusted downwards.
As always just my views and experiences.
Fiona
Your best bet would be to contact the area via the links in Katherine's post. It's important to remember that what might be the the case in this area (Bristol) may well be different where you are.
sistermillicent - when you hover over the links you don't see something like
mailto:name etc?
Anyway, these are the email addresses
Lorna Robertson lrobertson@alzheimers.org.uk
Paula Shears paula.shears@alzheimers.org.uk
mailto:name etc?
Anyway, these are the email addresses
Lorna Robertson lrobertson@alzheimers.org.uk
Paula Shears paula.shears@alzheimers.org.uk
