CHC (Continuing Healthcare) support thread

mydiamondmum

Registered User
Nov 10, 2015
171
0
How did you find the advocate?


Spiro I haven't got one yet, but enquired about it on the Alzheimers helpline and was emailed info about it as follows .... this is from the National Framework .pdf

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...inuing-healthcare-and-nhs-funded-nursing-care

Advocacy - page 20, paragraph 53

“Even if an individual does not meet the criteria for use of the IMCA service, and regardless of whether or not they lack capacity, they may wish to be supported by an advocate to help to ensure that their views and wishes are represented and taken into account. CCGs should ensure that individuals are made aware of local advocacy and other services that may be able to offer advice and support, and should also consider whether any strategic action is needed to ensure that adequate advocacy services are available to support those who are eligible or potentially eligible for NHS continuing healthcare. In addition, any person may choose to have a family member or other person (who should operate independently of LAs and CCGs) to act as an advocate on their behalf”

In addition, any person may choose to have a family member or other person (who should operate

Best regards
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
"...Spiro I haven't got one yet..."

I think post 340 was quoting from post 326, author PeggySmith
 

mydiamondmum

Registered User
Nov 10, 2015
171
0
"...Spiro I haven't got one yet..."

I think post 340 was quoting from post 326, author PeggySmith

Oh I understand now, thanks nitram.

I would be very interested in the answer to that question too, as I have mentioned before I am a statemented dyslexic. Reading through everything is causing me a lot of stress.

I am even thinking of paying one of these online advertised services to help me through this maze ...
 
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Spiro

Registered User
Mar 11, 2012
534
0
I would be very interested in the answer to that question too, as I have mentioned before I am a statemented dyslexic. Reading through everything is causing me a lot of stress.

Please accept my apologies; I didn't realise. Nitram is right, I was posting a quote from post 326.
 

jampotjuju

Registered User
May 14, 2016
1
0
Retrospective Review Success!

Hope im posting in the right area, please redirect me if not

We have recently (after 4 years) been told that we have been successful in our retrospective review for my later father, and are getting together all of the financial evidence

My qustion is this, we are aware that we can claim for Inconvenience and distress, is this for us as we cared for him or retrospectively for my late father. We are unsure as to what sort of an amount we can claim for this as the inconvenience to all was immense and the distress immeasurable - any guidance or previous experience of similar would be much appreciated
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
"My question is this, we are aware that we can claim for Inconvenience and distress, is this for us as we cared for him or retrospectively for my late father. We are unsure as to what sort of an amount we can claim for this as the inconvenience to all was immense and the distress immeasurable - any guidance or previous experience of similar would be much appreciated"

Have a read through:-

http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/__data/...ctive-continuing-care-funding-and-redress.pdf

Also look at:-

http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/?s=retrospective
If the topic isn't covered you could ask a question.
 

supertrooper

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
33
0
Please Sticker this helpful thread

A very helpful, supportive, interesting thread. Thank you to Nitram, Lyn T and all the others for their contributions.

What a sickening nightmare the NHS continuing care application can be. Particularly so for the dedicated carers who do so much hidden work to present a normal life in their community. Carers who are teenagers who step up to the plate and others not so young all have one thing in common and that is that they need support themselves. They need the space to follow there own path, time to achieve their own goals. Alongside knowing their loved one is well cared for and supported by the differing help required.

It is a disgrace that vulnerable people are left (literally) to navigate the confusing system which is overbearingly complex and at worst plainly discretionary and all that entails. People can see with their eyes what is required in any circumstance surrounding dementia....

The experience -views, thoughts, concerns- of carers must not be undervalued in all assessments, particularly when they have been doing the role for years as many have with no real physical, emotional, indeed financial support. Carers are good, wonderful people with a wealth of knowledge. They know best how to support their loved ones. They should be in the driving seat in all of this, respected, supported and assisted appropriately.

Please "sticker" this thread for others to benefit no matter how long it grows with contributions.
 

stanleypj

Registered User
Dec 8, 2011
10,712
0
North West
Glad you're finding the thread helpful. It was recently made a 'sticky' so we're hoping even more people will become aware of it and seek and/or provide support.
 

supertrooper

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
33
0
Thank you stanleypj. I now understand the sticky point.

Just wanted the thread to be around for a long time since it tackles the NHS continuing health care funding issues from all kinds of perspectives that it is proving to be a good source of information and dare I say it support.
 

hazy58

Registered User
May 23, 2016
5
0
Please can someone help me , deadline looming and feeling overwhelmed

Hello everybody , I am new here but have read several posts in the past on here to get some advice but really need a few things clarifying before I can continue the appeals process and before the deadline runs out in two weeks !!
My mum is in a residential care home for last three and a half years. She has a very long history of illnesses and conditions as well as severe dementia for last two years. So basically she is both physically and mentally a wreck :( now . She is 90 this year. She is double incontinent and totally bedridden , cant sit in a chair (she had a special one she could sit in for twenty mins or so but now cant sit in that as flops forward/cant support herself sitting ) she is on a special mattress because of her immobility to prevent bedsores and has severe contractures in both legs and some in arms. She can no longer be hoisted as too painful so now has to be moved for washing purposes etc by at least two carers and a Pat slide. She cannot change position in bed at all or even shufty about slightly. She has AF ,very poor kidney function (only one working) and had severe leg and head injuries in an RTA in her sixties. She is prone to bedsores and skin tears (all well managed /kept at bay by care home). She has recently started aspirating her drinks (she is on a completely soft diet only to prevent choking) and is now under the SALT team.

Late last year there was a safeguarding issue raised i.e. one of the carers complained about another carers treatment of mum (shouting ,being stroppy with her) and although nothing came of it (carer spoken to severely but reinstated due to one word against another) it prompted the social worker involved to arrange a checklist to be done for mums care needs which she 'passed' with flying colours. The social worker also mentioned she would arrange a financial assessment as mums money gone by now (paid privately and I was meeting shortfall personally on top of mums pensions to pay her fees) SW even said later at one point (when I questioned mums scores on the DST by NHS representative) that I was in a 'win win' situation - as if to say 'Does it matter where the money comes from to fund her, you will no longer have to pay it ?' !!!!

So mums DST meeting was held with this social worker and an NHS nurse (?) rep and the care home manager/mums main carer , myself and my daughter about five months ago (hence deadline from refusal letter coming up).

Mum got a severe for cognitive , all in room agreed. She got a couple of highs and a few lows and should have been given another severe for mobility which everyone except the NHS woman was in agreement with who insisted she was only a high. SW very strongly stood her ground and said she had never had this before (where two professionals really couldnt agree in one of these assessments - so she'd obviously done a few). In the end they went out of the room to argue this one score out (is it against framework to do this, could I have insisted on being present throughout the scoring process? )They came back in unable to agree and both their scores were entered on DST.

Later when I [finally] got the full breakdown of their decision including DST (they sent me one page A4 almost standard letter first time without the DST form or scores etc)....lo and behold it said both scores (I know now this is against the framework and they should go for the higher one if cant agree).

I have since attended a three month review with a different NHS (lead nurse) lady (who is very pushy and kept trying to get me to say on phone I wanted to appeal and that this review would be an appeal ?? motive ?) and a different SW . No idea why as I get the impression from everything I read that a 3mth review should only be carried out if the subject has been refused initially or some major change in circs. or condition. The scores of this 'mystery' review were all the same as first assessment BUT the NHS lead nurse and the SW this time agreed (surprise surprise) that mum was only a high in mobility.

My main question atm is where can I find a template letter of sorts to appeal to CCG. Plus do I have to list everything or will I get a chance to present more detailed evidence at the next stage(IRP? NHS England? ) Should I just stick to the main obvious procedural impropriety above and state that had it been done correctly to framework mum would've had two severes and almost automatically qualified. If I dont go into detail about much else (and there's loads of skullduggery that I can pick out and mountains of medical history and minutes etc. ) or into every relevant detail does that mean at the next stage they will just present my appeal as it came to them (the CCG) and I will be unable to pull out more detailed ammunition? Can I present /put together a new more detailed case to the independant panel or do the CCG flag it up to them and will I be time barred from presenting any new supporting evidence?

Oh just one more thing for now, the letter I got refusing mum after the three month review opened with the line that this review was as a result of my letter disagreeing with the first decision (which is what the NHS lead nurse mentioned up post was trying very hard to get me to say on the phone). I have never sent any such letter saying any such thing and I in fact stressed to her that I did not wish to discuss this by phone and I reserved my right to decide whether to appeal within the six months allowed after the first assessment. I smell a rat and wonder if anyone else thinks that the following happened: Mum gets given two severes (or one that was and one that should've been) CCG lead nurse sees this ,knowing implications of this immediately sets about trying to justify a further non scheduled review so that this can be 'put right' with herself and a different SW who kept basically bowing to her 'superior clinical knowledge' throughout .

I am feeling very overwhelmed and like heading for the back of the settee :(
 
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bemused1

Registered User
Mar 4, 2012
3,402
0
If i've asked this before, please be patient with me. Checklist was done in March, before Easter. Dn said hubs would qualify and when I mentioned it to doc she said it would be more or less a formality. Now almost two months on we haven't heard a word.
Is this normal?
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
Post #350

Slightly confused about the whole timescale but I would regard an appeal to be about a decision already made , it would be based on either failure to follow rules or decisions made on false evidence, it would relate to the person's condition at the time of the DST

A review, triggered by a time interval or change of the person's condition, would be based on the evidence available at the time of the review.

If you haven't already done so have a read through
http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/nhs-continuing-healthcare-faqs/
there may be something useful.
 

hazy58

Registered User
May 23, 2016
5
0
Hi me, testing to see how I know I've had a reply . Thank you!!

Hello everybody , I am new here but have read several posts in the past on here to get some advice but really need a few things clarifying before I can continue the appeals process and before the deadline runs out in two weeks !!
My mum is in a residential care home for last three and a half years. She has a very long history of illnesses and conditions as well as severe dementia for last two years. So basically she is both physically and mentally a wreck :( now . She is 90 this year. She is double incontinent and totally bedridden , cant sit in a chair (she had a special one she could sit in for twenty mins or so but now cant sit in that as flops forward/cant support herself sitting ) she is on a special mattress because of her immobility to prevent bedsores and has severe contractures in both legs and some in arms. She can no longer be hoisted as too painful so now has to be moved for washing purposes etc by at least two carers and a Pat slide. She cannot change position in bed at all or even shufty about slightly. She has AF ,very poor kidney function (only one working) and had severe leg and head injuries in an RTA in her sixties. She is prone to bedsores and skin tears (all well managed /kept at bay by care home). She has recently started aspirating her drinks (she is on a completely soft diet only to prevent choking) and is now under the SALT team.

Late last year there was a safeguarding issue raised i.e. one of the carers complained about another carers treatment of mum (shouting ,being stroppy with her) and although nothing came of it (carer spoken to severely but reinstated due to one word against another) it prompted the social worker involved to arrange a checklist to be done for mums care needs which she 'passed' with flying colours. The social worker also mentioned she would arrange a financial assessment as mums money gone by now (paid privately and I was meeting shortfall personally on top of mums pensions to pay her fees) SW even said later at one point (when I questioned mums scores on the DST by NHS representative) that I was in a 'win win' situation - as if to say 'Does it matter where the money comes from to fund her, you will no longer have to pay it ?' !!!!

So mums DST meeting was held with this social worker and an NHS nurse (?) rep and the care home manager/mums main carer , myself and my daughter about five months ago (hence deadline from refusal letter coming up).

Mum got a severe for cognitive , all in room agreed. She got a couple of highs and a few lows and should have been given another severe for mobility which everyone except the NHS woman was in agreement with who insisted she was only a high. SW very strongly stood her ground and said she had never had this before (where two professionals really couldnt agree in one of these assessments - so she'd obviously done a few). In the end they went out of the room to argue this one score out (is it against framework to do this, could I have insisted on being present throughout the scoring process? )They came back in unable to agree and both their scores were entered on DST.

Later when I [finally] got the full breakdown of their decision including DST (they sent me one page A4 almost standard letter first time without the DST form or scores etc)....lo and behold it said both scores (I know now this is against the framework and they should go for the higher one if cant agree).

I have since attended a three month review with a different NHS (lead nurse) lady (who is very pushy and kept trying to get me to say on phone I wanted to appeal and that this review would be an appeal ?? motive ?) and a different SW . No idea why as I get the impression from everything I read that a 3mth review should only be carried out if the subject has been refused initially or some major change in circs. or condition. The scores of this 'mystery' review were all the same as first assessment BUT the NHS lead nurse and the SW this time agreed (surprise surprise) that mum was only a high in mobility.

My main question atm is where can I find a template letter of sorts to appeal to CCG. Plus do I have to list everything or will I get a chance to present more detailed evidence at the next stage(IRP? NHS England? ) Should I just stick to the main obvious procedural impropriety above and state that had it been done correctly to framework mum would've had two severes and almost automatically qualified. If I dont go into detail about much else (and there's loads of skullduggery that I can pick out and mountains of medical history and minutes etc. ) or into every relevant detail does that mean at the next stage they will just present my appeal as it came to them (the CCG) and I will be unable to pull out more detailed ammunition? Can I present /put together a new more detailed case to the independant panel or do the CCG flag it up to them and will I be time barred from presenting any new supporting evidence?

Oh just one more thing for now, the letter I got refusing mum after the three month review opened with the line that this review was as a result of my letter disagreeing with the first decision (which is what the NHS lead nurse mentioned up post was trying very hard to get me to say on the phone). I have never sent any such letter saying any such thing and I in fact stressed to her that I did not wish to discuss this by phone and I reserved my right to decide whether to appeal within the six months allowed after the first assessment. I smell a rat and wonder if anyone else thinks that the following happened: Mum gets given two severes (or one that was and one that should've been) CCG lead nurse sees this ,knowing implications of this immediately sets about trying to justify a further non scheduled review so that this can be 'put right' with herself and a different SW who kept basically bowing to her 'superior clinical knowledge' throughout .

I am feeling very overwhelmed and like heading for the back of the settee :(

How much money is behind the settee. I have paid about 20k to mums fees :)
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
You clicked on 'Respond to member' on your own post not mine hence quoting your post instead of mine.

Adding more detail to your original post can cause confusion, better to make another post, you can use 'comment' after the last post in the thread so that no previous post is quoted.
 

hazy58

Registered User
May 23, 2016
5
0
Sorry only just realised this reply was aimed at me -new on here. Thank you for your reply . Yes it is confusing ,I'm not surprised I confuse myself sometimes lately :D but I feel has been a deliberate attempt to make it so by this lead nurse who phoned me soon after the first DST assessment (she wasnt present but seems it was referred to her back in the office ). She then seemed hell bent on finding an excuse for a new review in three months with her and a different SW - so a new MDT completely. So that happened about 3 mths later and they found the same except on this occasion the SW agreed with her High score for mobility. I have insisted on reserving my right to appeal against the first MDT/DST thingy and I have two weeks left of the six months allowed from date of letter refusing mums CHC.
Post #350

Slightly confused about the whole timescale but I would regard an appeal to be about a decision already made , it would be based on either failure to follow rules or decisions made on false evidence, it would relate to the person's condition at the time of the DST

A review, triggered by a time interval or change of the person's condition, would be based on the evidence available at the time of the review.
 

hazy58

Registered User
May 23, 2016
5
0
y

Thank you, Nitram , Thank you Nitram, I think I get it now. My head's a shed thanks to the NHS lately!

QUOTE=nitram;1276820]You clicked on 'Respond to member' on your own post not mine hence quoting your post instead of mine.

Adding more detail to your original post can cause confusion, better to make another post, you can use 'comment' after the last post in the thread so that no previous post is quoted.[/QUOTE]
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
Carrying on about how to post - you somehow or other deleted the [/quote] which meant that my post looked like part of your post, albeit with
included, instead of appearing as a quote on a coloured background.

Was the second assessment a full DST or something less formal?

You still have a right to appeal but before you do be 110% clear on the grounds of your appeal.
 

Fluffyval

Registered User
Dec 5, 2013
21
0
CHC saving money

Further to a meeting that took place, when the CCG decided to deny my SO one to one support that had been granted to him, his one to one will be cut arbitrarily from 24 hours per day to 4.5 hours per day.

This is an experiment to decide if he needs the one to one support which was allocated to him in December 2015 or, even though his condition has not improved, whether he can get by without, thus saving money.

I have stated that I am not party to this experiment.
In my opinion it is akin to a tomato plant, that when staked is fine, so someone decides to take the stake away. A need that is managed is still a need

I will point out that at the moment he does not require nursing care.

He cannot communicate his needs and gets agitated when his needs are not met resulting in aggressive behaviour.
In addition he requires to be fed his meals unless they are finger food, in which case he needs prompting. His sight is affected by his brain disease and cannot be corrected by lenses and with Lewy Body dementia his brain forgets he can walk sometimes although at other times he can walk quickly.
 

hazy58

Registered User
May 23, 2016
5
0
Nitram

Carrying on about how to post - you somehow or other deleted the
which meant that my post looked like part of your post, albeit with
included, instead of appearing as a quote on a coloured background.

Was the second assessment a full DST or something less formal?

You still have a right to appeal but before you do be 110% clear on the grounds of your appeal.

Thank you again. Yes second DST was a full MDT like the first one three months prior but with a different SW and a different NHS person (namely this lead nurse who phoned me after first one to discuss). I think my main grounds of appeal are going to be that mum should have been given (rightfully imo after reading all advice out there) two severes instead of one severe for cognition and a high/severe combo for mobility(against framework should have given highest of two) at the first DST meeting and then a severe for cognition and a high for mobility at the second when both the professionals agreed her score for mobility. I strongly feel mum does warrant a severe in mobility and that overall she most definitely does have a primary clinical need(s) The care home agreed with the severe for mobility aswell and they're the ones that have to move mum every day. I have also picked out several procedural improprieties from the framework that I am going to also cite. She also easily qualifies under the Coughlan comparator.
 
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nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
My understanding, according to the notes at the start of the DST form, is that in case of non agreement the highest score, albeit with a note of various opinions, should be recorded and passed to the panel. I've never seen any formal recognition, or mention, of a 'combo' assessment.

I basically regard the DST as producing a range of grades in the various domains. The DST consists of a group of 'experts' and their remit is to pass their decision, made in compliance with the DST document, to the panel.

I further regard the panel as an entity that can 'sign the cheque', it's function is not to assess medical needs, that is the purpose of the DST.

You're not arguing retrospective value judgements, you are arguing procedure - good luck.
 

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