By the way he agreed he'd put MS and vascular dementia as cause of death. I completely forgot about the pressure sore. Should I ask him to put that too?
Poor Piedsmum is poorly again.
- Thread starter piedwarbler
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Sorry
Hello dearest Pied , Sorry the Nurse 's care was not what you had hoped for & have to agree with you Pied about WHEN to give the Pain Killer & glad you were brave & **Spoke ** up for your Mum ( hate to say this Pied but you did ask about the morphine jab could it be the Nurse did not do a through pain check etc before the Bed Sore dressing was changed ? or it could be lots of other reasons that only the Nurse knows & does not want to say
Am sorry you missed the Minister but just to tell you went into my Main Church in Town & lit 2 Tea Lights both of you ( before they were lit stood quietly in the tiny Chapel & said a Prayer for you all )
Hope this helps offer you Spiritual Comfort
Deep Peace of the running wave to you ,
Deep Peace of the quiet earth to you ,
Deep Peace of the shinning stars to you ,
Deep Peace of the Son of Peace to you
A ** Celtic Blessing **
Hope it helps & wishing you much Love , Special Vibes & Support
Love & Hugs
Love Grove x x
Hello dearest Pied , Sorry the Nurse 's care was not what you had hoped for & have to agree with you Pied about WHEN to give the Pain Killer & glad you were brave & **Spoke ** up for your Mum ( hate to say this Pied but you did ask about the morphine jab could it be the Nurse did not do a through pain check etc before the Bed Sore dressing was changed ? or it could be lots of other reasons that only the Nurse knows & does not want to say
Am sorry you missed the Minister but just to tell you went into my Main Church in Town & lit 2 Tea Lights both of you ( before they were lit stood quietly in the tiny Chapel & said a Prayer for you all )
Hope this helps offer you Spiritual Comfort
Deep Peace of the running wave to you ,
Deep Peace of the quiet earth to you ,
Deep Peace of the shinning stars to you ,
Deep Peace of the Son of Peace to you
A ** Celtic Blessing **
Hope it helps & wishing you much Love , Special Vibes & Support
Love & Hugs
Love Grove x x
Oh Grove and Sarah you've brought tears to my eyes. I so appreciate your concern. Thank you. I love the blessing Grove, not heard that one x
Right well they've gone in to turn Mum and I reckon I can hardly feel a pulse and she is doing that croaky breathing so please God she doesn't feel pain when they do her. I asked H to take her pulse first and see what she thinks.
Pied, I don't know if this counts as spiritual support, but my favourite hymn is 'Be still, for the presence of the Lord the Holy One is here.' We sang it at our wedding, and we sang it at John's funeral. For me it's very calming and comforting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TFe-dOL2I4
I think the last verse is particularly appropriate for you and your mum.
Be still, for the power of the Lord is moving in this place;
He comes to cleanse and heal, to minister his grace -
No work too hard for him. In faith receive from him.
Be still, for the power of the Lord is moving in this place.
Love, hugs and prayers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TFe-dOL2I4
I think the last verse is particularly appropriate for you and your mum.
Be still, for the power of the Lord is moving in this place;
He comes to cleanse and heal, to minister his grace -
No work too hard for him. In faith receive from him.
Be still, for the power of the Lord is moving in this place.
Love, hugs and prayers.
I do know this hymn and its lovely - thanks. If I can sing without crying I'll sing it to mum x
Hiya Pied,
This whole pressure sore thing and the nurses view point is starting to irk me a bit and I am not even there. It takes me back to when mum's care home used to phone me every time she had a fall. Not because I needed to know, other than if she needed medical attention, but so they can absolve themselves of any claims of poor care from me at a later date. This smacks of the same kind if scenario to me, rather than it being a necessity for your mum, particularly if she is sleeping and comfortable. What is their reason for putting her through this,especially if she is pain free, from their assessment. I suspect it is for the same reason as they called me about the falls! At the end of the day, your mum is on a one way journey right now.
You would be within your rights to insist that the home should move to patient led care. If your mum has pain then give her medication. If she is having regular bowel movements to the extent they can time them then something is wrong given that your mum hasn't eaten for days. All of this smacks of following the care plan no matter what.
Unfortunately, this is one of the downsides of nursing homes because they are not empowered in the same way to make instant decisions. They have to find and consult and get agreement from a GP..often a lengthy process. In a hospital however, we pointed something out to a nurse...she said oh that is easily remedied with an injection..2 mins later, approval gained and she returns with injection in hand. 5 mins later mum is settled again.
If you feel that things are disturbing your mum and distressing both of you, then it might be worthwhile contacting the GP and asking him to advise the home to leave your mum in peace.
Fiona
This whole pressure sore thing and the nurses view point is starting to irk me a bit and I am not even there. It takes me back to when mum's care home used to phone me every time she had a fall. Not because I needed to know, other than if she needed medical attention, but so they can absolve themselves of any claims of poor care from me at a later date. This smacks of the same kind if scenario to me, rather than it being a necessity for your mum, particularly if she is sleeping and comfortable. What is their reason for putting her through this,especially if she is pain free, from their assessment. I suspect it is for the same reason as they called me about the falls! At the end of the day, your mum is on a one way journey right now.
You would be within your rights to insist that the home should move to patient led care. If your mum has pain then give her medication. If she is having regular bowel movements to the extent they can time them then something is wrong given that your mum hasn't eaten for days. All of this smacks of following the care plan no matter what.
Unfortunately, this is one of the downsides of nursing homes because they are not empowered in the same way to make instant decisions. They have to find and consult and get agreement from a GP..often a lengthy process. In a hospital however, we pointed something out to a nurse...she said oh that is easily remedied with an injection..2 mins later, approval gained and she returns with injection in hand. 5 mins later mum is settled again.
If you feel that things are disturbing your mum and distressing both of you, then it might be worthwhile contacting the GP and asking him to advise the home to leave your mum in peace.
Fiona
Hello Pied , Glad you love / like the Blessing & lots of Special Vibes your Mum is pain free when she is *moved *
How lovely of Hazel to send you the YouTube hope it brings you comfort Pied
Much Love , Support & Peaceful thoughts for you all
Love Grove x x
How lovely of Hazel to send you the YouTube hope it brings you comfort Pied
Much Love , Support & Peaceful thoughts for you all
Love Grove x x
Mum was turned, it was a good turn, she stayed settled and no distress. Her breathing has just suddenly changed to that groany breathing again. H says her pulse is thready and thin. I think she's unconscious, and H said she didn't appear to notice the turn. Her breathing's changed again. Back to wheezy.
Mum's fingertips are a kind of light mottled blue/ mauve, and her arms are a kind of grey colour. They go more like this after morphine then gradually come back pink again. I'm quite content she's not in distress right now.
I know Fifi. But they are insisting that as Mum could in theory live another week or more that she needs all these dressing changes and turns. We feel every time she settles down to drifting away and her pulse starts to go, they move her and it revives her panic breathing as I call it.
Question: do you think noise stops people from withdrawing on the path towards death. Would you have a TV on in a room with a dear one approaching death? What would you play? Would you talk constantly, or have quiet periods for rest?
Do you think noise and movement can "bring someone back" by stimulating their brain? Eg my gran had a heart attack and my grandad found her on the bathroom floor. He picked her up and cried, don't leave me, Ivy! She always swore that he restarted her heart and he swore she was dead when he lifted her in his arms.
I'd be grateful for your thoughts about these topics x
Do you think noise and movement can "bring someone back" by stimulating their brain? Eg my gran had a heart attack and my grandad found her on the bathroom floor. He picked her up and cried, don't leave me, Ivy! She always swore that he restarted her heart and he swore she was dead when he lifted her in his arms.
I'd be grateful for your thoughts about these topics x
Pied - I very much doubt they would put the pressure sore as a cause of death as its a consequence of her being in bed rather than a direct cause. I do appreciate you feeling the changing of the dressing and pressure area care may be superfluous but I think I understand why the nurses are doing it. If a pressure sore becomes bad and painful, because its a break down of the tissue it is affecting nerve endings, blood supply to the area may be reduced and it can become very painful and there is the risk it could become infected. If it seemed likely that your Mum was obviously hours from death then yes, you would leave it but if it gets bad, that will cause your Mum to become restless and although she may be aware of pain, or maybe a more intense irritation is better description than pain, she will want to move off it and maybe be unable to do so. Well managed pressure care, moving and half rolling and using pillows to support her as its done will mean maybe some discomfort for a short time as opposed to a niggling irritating pain that will continue to disturb her to an increasing degree.
Maybe you could ask the nurses if she could have a small amount of morphine before hand, perhaps you or sis could sit on the side she is turned to and hold her hand and talk to her whilst the care is being given. Be honest and say "its going to be a bit uncomfy for a little while Mum but if they do this then you will be able to get more comfortable after and relax and it won't be sore so you can sleep if you want to". Do they have pillows or wedges between her knees or under her feet that will change slightly the angle of pressure? and relieve it a little?
Do you have any music playing in the room? sometimes gentle music in the background can improve the atmosphere overall, maybe something light and classical or the type of music like the link earlier. Is there anything with a nice fragrance in the room? That can be soothing and could be a nice scented candle if allowed or a good quality natural room spray or essential oils? If you stick to the same fragrance that your Mum smells when she is awake she will associate it with you and the room and it will help orientate her. Maybe the lavender would be all you need.
Oh Pied - wish I could help more, we all do I am sure...
Take good care of yourself and gentle hugs to you all,
Love
Celia
xx
Its so hard because you must feel so helpless because you don't know if its for the best or not - but, as said, I do think I understand why they are doing this.
Maybe you could ask the nurses if she could have a small amount of morphine before hand, perhaps you or sis could sit on the side she is turned to and hold her hand and talk to her whilst the care is being given. Be honest and say "its going to be a bit uncomfy for a little while Mum but if they do this then you will be able to get more comfortable after and relax and it won't be sore so you can sleep if you want to". Do they have pillows or wedges between her knees or under her feet that will change slightly the angle of pressure? and relieve it a little?
Do you have any music playing in the room? sometimes gentle music in the background can improve the atmosphere overall, maybe something light and classical or the type of music like the link earlier. Is there anything with a nice fragrance in the room? That can be soothing and could be a nice scented candle if allowed or a good quality natural room spray or essential oils? If you stick to the same fragrance that your Mum smells when she is awake she will associate it with you and the room and it will help orientate her. Maybe the lavender would be all you need.
Oh Pied - wish I could help more, we all do I am sure...
Take good care of yourself and gentle hugs to you all,
Love
Celia
xx
Its so hard because you must feel so helpless because you don't know if its for the best or not - but, as said, I do think I understand why they are doing this.
I think if death is coming, all the doctors in the world cannot stop it, nor can all the love and desire, chase it away.
I think if death is desired..I have occasionally in my life not wanted to wake up...all the will in the world will not make it happen.
I think you can die in any circumstance, TV on, guns blaring, laughing happily, sobbing....or in my Dad's case...fall to the ground dead as you're trying to open a tin of Home Brew beers hops and the tin opener won't go in....I think my father's last words will have been cursing a tin-opener while listening to Radio Newcastle.
I don't think peace is required for Death Pied, it won't stop it or accelerate it but it can seem to be the thing we all desire.
I would prefer some peace with background noise, some chatter and sign of life but with quiet gentle spells....
pretty much what you and sister are doing. X
I think if death is desired..I have occasionally in my life not wanted to wake up...all the will in the world will not make it happen.
I think you can die in any circumstance, TV on, guns blaring, laughing happily, sobbing....or in my Dad's case...fall to the ground dead as you're trying to open a tin of Home Brew beers hops and the tin opener won't go in....I think my father's last words will have been cursing a tin-opener while listening to Radio Newcastle.
I don't think peace is required for Death Pied, it won't stop it or accelerate it but it can seem to be the thing we all desire.
I would prefer some peace with background noise, some chatter and sign of life but with quiet gentle spells....
pretty much what you and sister are doing. X
I can only comment on how I would react and that is that I would probably take comfort in the common sounds of live going on rather than everyone sitting in silence watching me popping my clogs. Wouldn't there be reassurance that life is continuing and that the folks all chatting away as normal, telly on in the background..that kind of thing.
I think this is why the following poem resonates with me..it is about normality...
Death is nothing at all
I have only slipped away into the next room
I am I and you are you
Whatever we were to each other
That we are still
Call me by my old familiar name
Speak to me in the easy way you always used
Put no difference into your tone
Wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow
Laugh as we always laughed
At the little jokes we always enjoyed together
Play, smile, think of me, pray for me
Let my name be ever the household word that it always was
Let it be spoken without effort
Without the ghost of a shadow in it
Life means all that it ever meant
It is the same as it ever was
There is absolute unbroken continuity
What is death but a negligible accident?
Why should I be out of mind
Because I am out of sight?
I am waiting for you for an interval
Somewhere very near
Just around the corner
All is well.
Nothing is past; nothing is lost
One brief moment and all will be as it was before
How we shall laugh at the trouble of parting when we meet again!
Canon Henry Scott-Holland, 1847-1918, Canon of St Paul's Cathedral
Fiona
I think this is why the following poem resonates with me..it is about normality...
Death is nothing at all
I have only slipped away into the next room
I am I and you are you
Whatever we were to each other
That we are still
Call me by my old familiar name
Speak to me in the easy way you always used
Put no difference into your tone
Wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow
Laugh as we always laughed
At the little jokes we always enjoyed together
Play, smile, think of me, pray for me
Let my name be ever the household word that it always was
Let it be spoken without effort
Without the ghost of a shadow in it
Life means all that it ever meant
It is the same as it ever was
There is absolute unbroken continuity
What is death but a negligible accident?
Why should I be out of mind
Because I am out of sight?
I am waiting for you for an interval
Somewhere very near
Just around the corner
All is well.
Nothing is past; nothing is lost
One brief moment and all will be as it was before
How we shall laugh at the trouble of parting when we meet again!
Canon Henry Scott-Holland, 1847-1918, Canon of St Paul's Cathedral
Fiona
Oh Pied ! Not a easy question & not so easy to reply , the only reply I can think of would not be suitable in your Mum 's case Pied & do not wish to 
upset you ( & it would be a waste of time saying )
All you can do Pied is follow your gut reaction on leaving the T V on etc or just a thought why not try & get a Special Calming C D ( the type you have at Yoga / or to de Stress your self ..... would that **lull ** your Mum to sleep ? please ignore if you want & sorry its not a real answer
Much Love , Strength & Peace
Love & Hugs Love Grove x x x x
upset you ( & it would be a waste of time saying ) All you can do Pied is follow your gut reaction on leaving the T V on etc or just a thought why not try & get a Special Calming C D ( the type you have at Yoga / or to de Stress your self ..... would that **lull ** your Mum to sleep ? please ignore if you want & sorry its not a real answer
Much Love , Strength & Peace
Love & Hugs Love Grove x x x x
Celia, I guess by your post you don't know that mum has a grade 4 sacral pressure sore that is down to the bone and infected badly. She developed it in December 2011 and it has never healed. She is no stranger to morphine or severe pain - and that's why she has the fentanyl patch too. Many a visit I sat while she clawed at me begging me to help take the pain away. I will tell you the story of how it developed if you like and I think the fact that the home doesn't get its mattresses serviced regularly and that they date from when PCTs used to provide them to care homes may be pertinent.
I think comforting things are ok
I sang to Win she was in a ward in the hospice
I don't know if my singing had anything to do with her being moved into a private room.
but I was glad she was moved and so was her family, it really helped
I sang to her her favourite songs including
There's a place where the streets shine with the glory of theLamb
I guess with my mum i would have sung from Carousel or the Sound of Music!
but she didnt like my singing!!
I would want nice soothing classical music I'm partial to a bit of Bach!
I sang to Win she was in a ward in the hospice
I don't know if my singing had anything to do with her being moved into a private room.
but I was glad she was moved and so was her family, it really helped
I sang to her her favourite songs including
There's a place where the streets shine with the glory of theLamb
I guess with my mum i would have sung from Carousel or the Sound of Music!
but she didnt like my singing!!
I would want nice soothing classical music I'm partial to a bit of Bach!
I am using the lavender Celia thanks to you, and I do think Mum notices it. I do play light music and I hope that helps.
Ah Sarah you made me smile for the first time today thank you.
Garnuft I think exhaustion made me wonder if we were making too much noise and putting Mum off dying but of course you are right!!! Think how we could save our loved ones by playing loud music, were that true
thank you. Garnuft I think exhaustion made me wonder if we were making too much noise and putting Mum off dying but of course you are right!!! Think how we could save our loved ones by playing loud music, were that true
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