Worried about plans by family for my mum

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by RedMaggs, Feb 28, 2015.

  1. RedMaggs

    RedMaggs Registered User

    Aug 6, 2014
    10
    Llanidloes
    I am one of 3 girls and my sisters have taken control of her life and future. Mum was diagnosed in December and I have only just been told about the diagnosis.

    My sisters have decided to move mum into a purpose built "Granny Annex" in one of their gardens, then sell her house to pay for it. She is currently lonely they have stated that this will help as people can visit all the time. Both my sister and her husband are out at work all day, her kids are at school and she will be nearly a mile from the nearest shops and the only access will be through their house.

    They are also taking mum to see her solicitor next week and when I asked about what it was for they lied to me and have told me I cannot go (I have had advice about that and been told to go)

    I am very upset as I don't feel they are acting in her best interests - any advice
     
  2. sistermillicent

    sistermillicent Registered User

    Jan 30, 2009
    2,949
    it seems a bit hard that you were not told about the diagnosis, presumably you were aware that your mum wasn't really ok from seeing her?
    What would you like to see happen to your mum as it would probably help if you put that to your sisters as an alternative that they could consider.
    Do you know what your mum wants to happen?
     
  3. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    I'm assuming that the solicitor visit is to set up lasting powers of attorney. If it's not and as you are (wisely in my view) going anyway, raise the subject.

    The things that occur to me: if your mother eventually needs a care home, the LA might look very seriously at whether there had been deprivation of assets. If your mother retains a share of the ownership of this house it might be OK, but it sounds as if her name won't be anywhere on the deeds for this property and that's distinctly iffy. Also, if your sisters are planning/hoping to be made attorneys the powers that be take a dim view of an attorney using a donors money to benefit themselves.

    On the other hand, it may be that having family on tap, even if they are out during the day, might allow your mother to retain some measure of independence. I'm not very keen on the idea that her access to the outer world might be restricted, but on the other hand, if she's likely to start wandering, such a restriction may be necessary.

    What would you like to happen? Do you live close enough to your mother to provide support in her own home should she stay there?
     
  4. MeganCat

    MeganCat Registered User

    Jan 29, 2013
    356
    South Wales
    I don't know the answer but your post did raise with me the question of deprivation of assets as presumably this granny annex in the garden would not be able to be sold if your mum moved into care as it in on your sisters land. (Or if it's a static caravan type affair I don't know if it would appreciate or depreciate like a house would) It's worth asking for legal advice on this.
     
  5. RedMaggs

    RedMaggs Registered User

    Aug 6, 2014
    10
    Llanidloes
    I was aware mum was undergoing tests and had asked about results. They have decided that she will not go into a care home but will stay there for the rest of her life, they had all discussed this before I was informed and I had discussed with my mum the possibility of her moving in with us. It's a safe town, and people look out for each other - stray dogs get taken in and pictures are posted on FB within hours - so a stray mum would be no problem, I am well known and she would retain her freedom as long as she needed it. My sisters said she had never said this to her and was too polite to say no to such a suggestion - she has stated she doesn't want to live with either of them, but apparently her politeness does not include them.

    I am guessing it's a lasting power of attorney as well, they are planning to complete the move by June. My sister would be benefiting as it would increase the price of her property - and that sounds wrong to me. Can I object to the document as I believe it is not in her best interest? I don't want to upset my mum as we are very close - I moved 90 miles away 5 years ago and until then I visited her 3/4/5 times a week, now it is about once a month.

    I had noticed her deterioration - and rang my sister about it last year and she had already arranged all the tests 2 months prior to that.

    I want what's best for my mum
     
  6. RedMaggs

    RedMaggs Registered User

    Aug 6, 2014
    10
    Llanidloes
    We have considered suggesting moving to be with her - but I feel that this would be rejected as my sisters are very tight and KNOW BEST!!
     
  7. sistermillicent

    sistermillicent Registered User

    Jan 30, 2009
    2,949
    oh dear, you're really up against it then. If you are going to the meeting with solicitors you can make life difficult and unpleasant for your sisters I suppose but I don't think this will win them over to your point of view, and I doubt it will stop their plans.
    Is it worth trying to keep well in with them so that you can visit your mum a lot? Perhaps I am being a bit unrealistic, they sound as if they may put obstacles in your way.
    I fell out a little with my sisters over my mum but we talked it through and decided the last thing mum would have wanted was for her illness to make problems between us. We took a couple of years for things to settle down and quite a lot of calming down by our husbands, I suspect, but now seem to agree on just about everything.
     
  8. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,744
    Female
    London
    Of course you can object to the LPA - they do need to notify people and I can't see how they can leave you off this list. Also, your Mum needs capacity to be a donor which also suggests that her views on where she wants to live will have to be taken into account. I would turn up at the meeting and tell the solicitor that - you might say that you only agree to the LPA if you get to be one of the attorneys who act jointly (not jointly and severally). That way they couldn't make a decision without you. Of course this will mean that it's all going to be ugly and you will have to be prepared for that.
     
  9. RedMaggs

    RedMaggs Registered User

    Aug 6, 2014
    10
    Llanidloes
    My sisters and I don't really see eye to eye - I am the unconventional one - had a child out of wedlock (lol) - didn't go to university at 18 (I finished my degree 2 years ago at the age of 50 though) didn't have a conventional job (and when I eventually got one as a lecturer they still looked as if it was nothing) - married at 40 got divorced (they liked that husband) got remarried 5 years ago (he is an artist so not a proper job) and to be honest I really don't care about upsetting them - I have had enough of being treated like s**t by them. When I married I invited one of my oldest friends and one of them had a right go at me for inviting him as he had been married to her best friend - that's how they treat me and they think it's fine.

    I have Crohns Disease and the same sister keeps on at me to get of my fat a**e and get a job - yesterday she said I wasn't well enough to look after my mum!

    I plan on going to the meeting and thanks for the advice Beate - "you might say that you only agree to the LPA if you get to be one of the attorneys who act jointly (not jointly and severally). That way they couldn't make a decision without you." I will do son

    Of course this will mean that it's all going to be ugly and you will have to be prepared for that. - well ugly is what it already is for me so hey ho :)
     
  10. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    With all due respect, it's not your call about whether you are an attorney or not: it's your mothers. And there is no requirement for you to agree to the terms of an LPA. I understand why Beate is suggesting jointly, but this is likely to make the situation basically unworkable since you aren't local to your mother. You could suggest jointly and severally for basic financial transactions and jointly for major ones, but there is really no requirement for your mother to agree.

    I think perhaps Beate might be referring to the requirement to notify certain people when an LPA is being registered. In fact, it only needs to be one person (and not necessarily a family member) and if you have two certificate providers, no one needs to be informed. Also, if notification does take place, the person being notified can only object on some very specific reasons and "I wasn't made an attorney" is not one of them.

    What I'm trying to say is: you're not in a position to lay down the law regarding this issue. You can ask your mother to make all of your attorneys but you can't force her to.
     
  11. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    6,992
    Suffolk
    So your mum will be contained in her little house/ whatever where there will be no access to anybody unless the family is at home? And they are away from, say 09:00 to 16:00? Sounds like a form of prison to me. What about , say, DN or gp visits? Friends visiting? How are they proposing to manage as her condition worsens? And all the points about LPA and housing for her are valid, the only person they benefit is sis.
    IMHO, this stinks. At the very least LPA should, as you say, be joint.
    This us one of the few times I am glad I have no siblings.
     
  12. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,744
    Female
    London
    True, but I would have thought that as she is the sister she would have to be notified and could object on the grounds that she thinks the attorneys are trying to benefit from her mother's money? This would cause trouble for the sisters so if she told them before she is going to object there might be a way to do it differently? I wonder how willing a solicitor is on doing an LPA when the notices the friction? If the mother states she does not want to live with the sisters, maybe she would want the OP to be attorney too? There is a chance that possibility was never even put to her.
     
  13. sistermillicent

    sistermillicent Registered User

    Jan 30, 2009
    2,949
    I think this might be the case with the court of protection but not with a regular LPA because it is considered that the person making it has capacity to make decisions and is therefore free to say who is to be notified, no legal obligation to choose any relative at all.
     
  14. lexy

    lexy Registered User

    Nov 24, 2013
    563
    #14 lexy, Feb 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
    deleted
     
  15. RedMaggs

    RedMaggs Registered User

    Aug 6, 2014
    10
    Llanidloes
    At Jenniferpa - yes it is my mothers choice - however my sisters have reached this point without any discussion with me - I would be happy if they had included me - I don't want to lay down the law about who is involved, unlike my sisters who have deliberately lied to me about the meeting and said it was about something else. My mums choices have been decided for her by my sister who when my mum repeats something she said just 5 minutes ago shouts at her "you've already told me" she talks to my mum like a child and regularly tells her what to do - I suggested that mum might like to take Cod Liver Oil tablets - she said mum would just get upset at being told to take other tablets - I have never told her to do anything - I have asked her and she was happy to take them as I did as well - and that is the problem - I respect my mums wishes and she treats her - you will do as I say with no choice!!! So there has been no suggestion that I become attorney - they lied about what they were doing - and as for the distance - my other sister who will be joint attorney lives 150 miles away but they seem to think that is workable!!!


    My mother is being manipulated by my sisters and doesn't even know she is going to the solicitors!! I am not in the position to lay down the law - but neither are my sisters!!


    This is what they are planning - homelodge.co.uk home-solutions granny-annexes - I haven't made enough posts to put in a link!
     
  16. Sue J

    Sue J Registered User

    Dec 9, 2009
    8,035
    I would go to the Solicitors and make sure he or she knows the diagnosis, just in case your sisters are thinking of not telling them and getting your Mum to sign on the dotted line. Your Mum, as others have said, may still be able to make decisions and should be allowed to, she may not though understand the implications of decisions that are being made on her behalf and they may well not have been spelt out to her. There may be positives for her living in an annexe of your sisters but there will certainly be some negatives which are likely to get worse, then what financial provision will be left to care for her? I agree with Spamar, it stinks:( Whose best interests are being served here?
     
  17. susanandliam

    susanandliam Registered User

    Dec 10, 2012
    119
    somerset
    Lpa

    For what it's worth from my own experience if you are offered LPA make sure it's joint LPA not jointly and severally otherwise your sisters will possibly just do what they want anyway without consulting you!
     
  18. lexy

    lexy Registered User

    Nov 24, 2013
    563
    #18 lexy, Feb 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
    deleted
     
  19. LYN T

    LYN T Registered User

    Aug 30, 2012
    6,962
    Brixham Devon
    It is quite possible that when the Solicitor speaks to your Mum he/she may decide that your Sisters will have to go down the Deputyship route. Solicitors sometimes don't understand that Dementia has varying levels of capacity.I'm presuming the Solicitor knows/will be told of your Mum's diagnosis. If the Solicitor agrees to a LPA then that would mean that it's been deemed that your Mum can still make her own decisions whether that is for finance/living arrangements or anything else.

    If someone has to apply to the OPG for deputyship then that person/persons will have to account for every penny spent-and show yearly accounts.I'm not sure a glorified caravan/lodge would be deemed in your Mum's best interests in the circumstances you outline.

    In your Sisters defence (and I am completely sitting on the fence) they could have downloaded the LPA forms off the internet and asked your Mum to sign them. They didn't, and are taking further advice.However, I do believe that there is an issue with deprivation of liberties if your Mum is going to be 'contained' in this way. But then, we do what we need to do to keep our nearest and dearest safe

    Take care

    Lyn T
     
  20. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    I suppose really you need to put forward an alternative plan, its all very well saying you don't like that idea, but what would you suggest as an alternative- and have you put it to them?

    Turn up at the solicitors by all means- Its not a place that one can normally turn up and expect to be included in the meeting- I guess if the solicitor senses any animosity you'll all be sent packing , and depending on your mothers deemed capacity, may achieve absolutely nothing.

    You say you know they have lied about the purpose of the visit- do you know that or suspect it?

    Ultimately when your mother enter that solicitors office if the solicitor has any doubts nothing will happen anyway- changing a will for instance- it would be more than the solicitors neck was worth.

    Personally I do like the idea of the granny annex- they much have a decent sized garden to accommodate it- how will she be cut off from everyone/everything? Gardens usually have side access if nothing else.
     

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