Worried about plans by family for my mum

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by RedMaggs, Feb 28, 2015.

  1. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    #21 Chemmy, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
    Forgive me but I'm going to play Devils advocate here and ask : would an outsider consider these plans unreasonable?

    Sisters A and B have decided that their mother should live with sister A in a separate, purpose built, granny annexe in a secure environment in the back garden. They haven't involved sister C because they all know they don't get on.

    Mum's house will be sold to finance this. Why would sister B agree to this if the intention was to misappropriate any assets?

    What happens when their mum no longer lives there? It's not a proper extension so is not actually adding value to Sister A's property - they will either have to try and sell it on or pay to have it removed. I don't know the cost but it's probably less than a couple of years of care home fees.

    Is it in your mum's best interests? An outsider might consider it is, in the short/ medium term. Safe, secure, modern, and in very close proximity to a member of her family. Almost a text book solution. Far better than a lot of the chaotic and unsafe lives a lot of our parents are living in that period between independence and permanent care.

    If/ when your mum needs to move to a care home, she will self-fund until her remaining assets have been depleted and then she will continue as before, financed by the state. How it funded is unlikely to make any difference to her day to day care so your mum's needs are not likely to be compromised.

    The only tangible difference is in any future inheritance for sisters A, B and C. A portion of it will have been used to buy the annexe, which I think we all agree will have depreciated in value and it unlikely to add much, if anything, in the way of value to sister A's property. Sister B doesn't seem to see that as a problem....and there lies, I think, the weakness in your argument.

    Without a viable alternative that your sisters will agree to, and that seems unlikely, I think there's a danger that this might be seen as a case of a continued feud with your sisters, rather than a discussion about your mum's best interests.

    If there are three siblings and two agree on a solution, I would have thought that any outsider is most likely to see their proposal as the best course of action.

    No offence intended here, by the way. Just putting a different slant on it :)

    PS. I'd be hopping mad if I was Sister A's neighbour and there was no need for planning permission, and something like that was built over the fence.:eek:
     
  2. lexy

    lexy Registered User

    Nov 24, 2013
    563
    #22 lexy, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
    deleted
     
  3. Owly

    Owly Registered User

    Jun 6, 2011
    538
    Hi RedMaggs

    If Mum is lonely, she'll be just as lonely in her dinky little cabin as before, unless there are local people who know her and who will turn up to visit often. How will they get to the cabin in the garden I wonder, if the only access is through the house? Wired up doorbells or what? Or will Mum have to sit in the main house and wait for the doorbell to ring (assuming she remembers or is told that someone is coming!)

    People with dementia who are placed in this kind of annexed accommodation can quickly reach the point where they don't want to be left alone and they insist on coming into the main house to be with company, so I wonder how your sister will cope with possibly ending up with Mum sharing the evening and weekends with her, hubby and children.

    I presume that after the cabin has been paid for out of Mum's funds, there will still be plenty of funds for sister to administer under POA and maybe there is a concern that those funds might be mis-spent, let's say.

    I know from experience that when you take your Mum or Dad to the solicitor's, the solicitor will hear what the meeting is about, then send you out of the room while they talk to Mum or Dad alone, that's whether they have dementia or not. So the solicitor is going to get an idea about Mum's capabilities to hold a conversation and make any decisions. On the LPA document, it says that the certificate provider HAS to do this anyway, to ascertain that no coercion has been placed on the person sitting in front of them and that they clearly understand what they are proposing to do.

    Are you ready to have Mum living with you now, as that seems to be the only alternative suggestion you could make to solve the problem of loneliness. Are you there all or most of the day?
     
  4. RedMaggs

    RedMaggs Registered User

    Aug 6, 2014
    10
    Llanidloes
    Jessbow - I have put forward an alternative with me as her main carer - they rejected it - I know they lied as firstly she said it was an appointment - I offered to take mum, she said no as it was with the solicitors and he didn't know me, I asked what it was about and she told me it was nothing to do with me - my look of amazement made her then say that it was to sign for the freehold purchase which they had earlier said was all sorted - I can spot a lie easily and have done a lot of research into the psychology of telling lies - she made it up

    At Chemmy - Sister B has already put a charge on my mums house for purchasing the freehold (£22,500) The portion used to buy the annex is over 50% of the remaining equity in her property - I don't want any of the money. And yes I can see how it can be seen as a continued feud however up until the last few months there hasn't been any feuding at all - I am aware they look down on me but I am invited to all their family events and we rub along OK or so I thought until they started hiding stuff from me - they had also discussed the granny annex with their husbands before I got there, have sorted out the funding and have worked out the values of mums house. Excellent Devils Advocate btw :D

    My mum is 84 - and has been a bit wobbly on her feet for the last few months - it is nearly a mile to the closest shops - and her church will be 5 miles away - she is Catholic.
     
  5. lexy

    lexy Registered User

    Nov 24, 2013
    563
    #25 lexy, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
    deleted
     
  6. Chemmy

    Chemmy Registered User

    Nov 7, 2011
    7,592
    Yorkshire
    It smacks of a disaster waiting to happen.

    It'll be interesting to see at what point sister A throws in the towel, for as Owly says, your mum is unlikely to be happy sitting on her own in her new garden shed and will start becoming a problem literally on the doorstep. I'm sure they haven't the faintest idea of how disruptive to their family life this is likely to be.

    If they then decide she needs full time care and intend to ask the LA for funding in the near future because they've spent over half of your mum's assets on these ill-conceived schemes, they are likely to fall foul of the depravation of assets policy ...and rightly so.

    Maybe calmly pointing out these potential problems is the tack to take?
     
  7. Moonflower

    Moonflower Registered User

    Mar 28, 2012
    775
    In practical terms if they are planning to "contain" mum in the shed in the garden, how can anyone visit her unless mum is "allowed" into the main house to open the door. I don't see how this can possibly work. What if Dr, nurse etc etc needs to visit. Or mum's friends.
     
  8. BR_ANA

    BR_ANA Registered User

    Jun 27, 2012
    1,082
    Brazil
    Someday your mother will need careers or sitters. How would this people go to granny annexe?

    If an emergency happens, when nobody at home? How will your mother be reached? (Blaze, fall, pain, heart attack)
     
  9. Angela T

    Angela T Registered User

    Jul 13, 2014
    187
    France
    Hello RedMaggs,

    Yes I think you are right to be concerned.

    Your mother's needs are unlikely to be met in a granny annexe - what will happen if/when she requires full-time nursing/supervision...?

    Whatever your sisters' motivations, have they thought this through - with the advice of health professionals ?

    Good luck - I think you need as much professional advice as possible - none of us wants to think of the time when our mothers need full-time care, or hospice care etc... but that time will come for your mother, and what happens then ?

    Angela
     
  10. MeganCat

    MeganCat Registered User

    Jan 29, 2013
    356
    South Wales
    I'm not sure how much your mum can currently do but sometimes a change of environment can cause a quickening of loss of previous ability - eg to make a sandwich, microwave a meal or make a cup of tea - able to do it in a familiar kitchen, not in a new one
    How do your sisters intend to ensure your mum gets lunch and drinks enough through the day?
     
  11. abadam

    abadam Registered User

    May 28, 2013
    29
    I can really relate

    Sounds to me that your sisters are running their own agenda.It's just a shame you find out that your family sucks at a time that somebody is going to get it in the neck-your mum.
    Your mum is probably finding out,in her newly vulnerable state,that her daughters are more interested in themselves than her,and that her needs are way down the line,and her assets are way up the line.
    People are very good at disguising their agendas and are prepared to 'fool' themselves.
    You're finding out that your sisters suck,and your mums finding that out to.
    When people want something and they dont know how to behave or care,then watch out.
    Generally you can walk away from people like this,but it's different with your family,and more so when there is a dependent-your mum.
    She's not going to be able to deal effectively with your sisters.She'll just have discovered that.My dying mum feared for the worst for my father as far as relying on her children's support to keep him in his home,and in her day she was extremely formidable.
    When parents become vulnerable,the leash is unleashed and,boy,can that be toxic.
    I dont know how that toxicity can be countered when your mum's quality of life is going to be so conditioned by it,with people professing care and concern where real care and concern would have produced a different and probably happier set of circumstance for your mother.
    Your sisters are unbridled and will seek to drive you away and cause constant conflict and unhappiness for you and your mum.
    In my limited understanding,this negativity is down to unresolved and raw childhood issues held in check by healthy parents,but when that control slips,so are the dogs.
    I'm sorry to be so pessimistic.
    I think proper due process and formulation of practice-something like that-which regulates behaviour and rights-like child-visiting rights[in my own case I suppose],and proper oversight of your mother's rights and related capacities would make things clear.
    As somebody said:It's all about what your mother wants,but your sisters are going to make it deeply difficult for her to say what she wants and subsequently deeply unpleasant.Likewise for you.
    I feel for you.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.