We just don not know where to turn.

Dutchy JJ

New member
Jun 4, 2022
7
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A history if I may, my mother is 86 and was diagnosed with vascular dementia 4 years ago after a stroke. She lives with my younger sister Amanda, and they have been plodding along ever since. There was a noticeable decline in mum after the death of my brother to covid in January 2021, but she was still able to get to the bathroom with the aid of a frame although she did rely on Amanda for showering, dressing, and food. The family was able to keep in touch with mum via video link, but it was becoming more and more obvious that she was struggling with both her hearing and understanding.

In May of this year, Amanda took mum out to the local supermarket for the first time in 2 years, and unfortunately, they both caught covid. Neither had any devastating symptoms (they have had all jabs and boosters) but mum did develop a cough and went completely off her food. A week later Amanda was met with a completely incoherent mum, who couldn’t move, and fearing another stroke, Amanda called an ambulance. It was quickly determined that mum’s sugar levels had dropped dangerously low and after the administration of glucose, she picked up straight away. She was taken to the hospital for a check-over but was sent home 6 hours later. It was found out while at hospital that the diabetes tablets that she had been taking for the past 20 years were no longer required because her markers showed that she hadn’t in fact been suffering from diabetes for the past 3 years!!

All seemed ok, until a week later. Mother out of the blue has a toilet accident and was devastated, on the way back from the bathroom to her bedroom she stumbled and falls, being unable to get herself up and Amanda (suffering from COPD) was unable to help, so decided to call an ambulance again. This time it was found that her blood pressure was low and dropped lower when the ambulance service tried to make her stand, so back up to the hospital she goes. This time it was decided to keep her in and keep an eye on her.

Mum has always been a very proud woman, but in hospital and because she could not stand, she was told to toilet on a pad in the bed, which she point blank refused to do. After 6 hours of her crying and begging to be allowed to go to the toilet we asked if she could have a catheter inserted and was told that the hospital did not give catheters out on patient request. After 2 days of mum refusing to pee and becoming more and more distressed, a bladder scan showed bladder retention and a catheter was inserted, but by now mother is very confused and believed she had been violated. Her mental state declined at an alarming rate, with her becoming more and more distressed as the hours went on, for the first time since starting this dementia journey she became abusive, racist, and violent. Still complaining that she wanted the police because she had been violated and crying uncontrollably.

On day 4 of her stay at the hospital, she pulled her catheter out, and on this day the hospital decided that mum needed an enema. The results were devastating to her mental health, she now believed she had been raped and that we, her family, were doing nothing to help her, she became non-responsive and just cried uncontrollably. At this point, she has not eaten for days and has only drunk sips of water when pressured. The hospital performed various tests, including taking blood, and a CT scan, which all appear normal, but my sister is informed that the hospital is putting a DNR in place, Amanda protests and says she needs to discuss this with her family and is told it was not her decision to make, it was a medical decision and in the best interest of mum. Obviously, we are shocked and upset. On day 5 of mum’s hospital stay (26th May), Amanda demands to take mum home, who is now declared physically fit, as she is almost catatonic but screaming any time medical personnel came near her. An ambulance is arranged, Amanda is giving an envelope for the ambulance staff that says CPR DNA and within an hour mum is home, bed-bound with no care plan in place, no toileting help, and still not eating or drinking. It was obvious that the situation was declining at a rapid pace, so I contacted our local community nursing hub to ask for help. Within an hour both a nurse and OT turned up at home, not quite believing that we had been left in this manner.

The nurse checked mum’s observations and declared them all fine, which is great. OT arranged a bed to be delivered that day, which it did, and a social worker called to say after assessment a care plan was being put in place for 2 x carers 4 times a day starting Friday 3rd June. In the meantime, it was down to Amanda and me to care for mum.

Mum is still refusing to toilet on a pad (dog pad as nothing was provided and we are still awaiting the incontinence team to come out and assess mum) and is becoming more and more aggressive to us both because we can not lift her out of bed to use the toilet. We are told that although someone will come in to assemble the bed it is down to us to get mum from her bed to the hospital bed which is assembled in the living room.
A desperate call to our GP on Monday (by now Amanda has had 9 hours of sleep in 4 days and I (arriving on Saturday) have had 4 hours) yields a sedative and the promise that a community matron will call in to see where we are at. Mother now is only napping, has not eaten for 12 days, and only takes approx. 300ml per day of fluid after much pressuring.
No matron turns up, we have been sleep-deprived for days and I must go home on Tuesday. After a further 2 nights of no sleep for Amanda, I go back up and complete a night shift, which entails mother crying, wishing to die, begging to be let up, and becoming abusive if you try to check her for wetness. Despite upping the sedative (doctor’s advice after another desperate call about no sleep) from one tablet to two she is still not settling let alone sleeping. So here we are at 3.30 am 4th June and a desperate text from Amanda that mum is still not sleeping and nor is Amanda. Amanda is at the end of her tether; she cannot cope, and I do not know what to do. I’m going up again on Sunday to do another night shift, but I need help. Where do I turn, and who is best to give advice? How can I get this stubborn, proud bed bedbound mother to sleep? How long can mum survive with absolutely no food and only 300ml of fluid? I just don’t know where to turn.
 

Izzy

Volunteer Moderator
Aug 31, 2003
75,447
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73
Dundee
Welcome to the forum.

I’m so sorry to read of your situation. I think you might find it useful to contact the Dementia Connect Helpline. They’re open today from 10-4.


I also think you should contact your Social Work Department and let them know that this situation has now become unmanageable. Remind them that your mum is a vulnerable person and tell them that you and your sister are reaching carer burnout and can’t continue to provide the care needed for your mum.
 

Dutchy JJ

New member
Jun 4, 2022
7
0
Thank you Izzy, I will look into that, I am 2 hours away from mum, so not only do I not sleep all night I then have to drive home..its a very frightening situation. But I am worried about Amanda, she has COPD and has developed a chest infection that is not clearing with antibiotics, so yes carer burnout is definitely an accurate description. But more than anything I need answers - how long can mum survive without food and fluid? I feel she is, whether purposely or not, starving herself to death. I don't want that for my mum.
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
2,025
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67
London
Could you consider putting your mum in a nursing home for respite so that Amanda has some time to recover? I am sure that would cause distress to your mum but if Amanda becomes too ill to continue the distress will be even greater. Amanda must look after herself otherwise she won't be able to help her mum.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,456
0
South coast
Hello @Dutchy JJ
Im so sorry to hear how your mum has gone downhill so rapidly. Any infection can progress dementia and covid seems to do horrible things to people with dementia. Another infection that can cause havoc for people with dementia is a UTI (urine infection). People who have urine retention are very prone to getting UTIs. Has anyone checked her recently for one?

People with dementia can survive for a surprisingly long time without eating, but so long as she is drinking it is a bit less of a worry. Could you ask her GP if they would prescribe some high calorie drinks (ensure, or similar)? When my mum reached End of Life she did not eat for a month and went 17 days with no food or fluid whatsoever. I did not think it possible.

Please contact Social Services as an emergency to get some help. I think help from carers and some overnight care for a few days, or perhaps some respite in a care home so that everyone can plan for the future, would be in order.
 

Dutchy JJ

New member
Jun 4, 2022
7
0
Hi Martin,
After our experience in the hospital, Amanda is adamant that mum will not leave home again. Having said that if things carry as they are, I don't think Amanda will have any choice. There is a safeguarding issue to consider. I can only go up 3 times a week and only to do the night shift,
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,843
0
Midlands
Can someone pop to boots and get some inco pds or pull ups? Much more dignified.
( Puppy pads are okay- my 2 year old grndaughter uses them at night in her cot- pot ttraining but not ideal for an adult)


Could she be transfered to a commode?
 

DreamsAreReal

Registered User
Oct 17, 2015
477
0
What with the covid infection followed by the awful hospital stay, I'm not surprised your Mum is so traumatised. I feel so sad for you all. What a desperate situation.

Are you in an area where Admiral Nurses will come out? Your sister needs help from somewhere. Has mum got enough money to pay for private carers? A couple of visits a day for getting her to the toilet, with the aid of a stand aid or similar equipment? Has the OT been out to assess yet? Would she use an old style bedpan? I'm just thinking aloud really, I wasn't ever in this exact situation because mum was never bed bound. She would become terribly confused and incoherent with any infection though. Will her GP come out to see her?

I hope you and mum get some help soon because this is intolerable for you all. ?xx
 

Lynmax

Registered User
Nov 1, 2016
1,045
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I know it would be expensive, but could your mum pay for night time carers to allow your sister to sleep? It seems as if a crisis would arise if your sister became too ill to care for your mum as you are too far away to do any more, at that point, what would happen to mum? Hospital again I guess?

I agree that a repeat hospital stay is the last thing you want, we refused to allow my mum to have further hospital treatment when she too was refusing food and drink, allowing her to die peacefully in her own room in her care home. My mum intermittently refused food or drink for four months, just the odd sip of water and a spoonful of yogurt every few days.
 

SERENA50

Registered User
Jan 17, 2018
433
0
Hi

I almost cannot believe what I am reading . I am so so sorry you and your sister are going through this and I can understand why your sister does not want your Mum to go back into hospital or to leave your home❤️ however practically something has to give, no-one can go on with little sleep and your sister does have COPD which is a tiring condition on a good day and if there is a flare up she will be exhausted (my dad has COPD)

Surprisingly you can go on for quite a while with no food/fluids. When mum was very poorly she was like that for several weeks with only us dampening her lips with some of those , well I think they were like sponges on a small stick, just to keep her comfortable.

I know we did eventually find a night sitter but that was through the Marie curie nurses? Would something like that help just in the short term? At least with a good nights sleep you can thinks straight to deal with things.

Mum also had to have a catheter fitted as she was bed bound and was more comfortable that way.

Let us know how you go on x
 

MartinWL

Registered User
Jun 12, 2020
2,025
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67
London
I fear you need to gently work on Amanda to be more realistic. You are right that she may not have a choice. Your mother's ill health issues amount to more than anyone can cope with at home and sooner or later there will be another crisis - that's dementia old age and incontinence for you as a not-very-nice package. Your mother is going to be distressed in any environment including at home. Indeed a care home well equipped with the right equipment that enables her to be assisted to a proper toilet might relieve her distress - I certainly wouldn't be happy if told to relieve myself in bed - what a horrible thing.
 

CAL Y

Registered User
Jul 17, 2021
649
0
Hello @Dutchy JJ . I managed to get overnight sitters through our local Hospiscare in conjunction with Marie Curie nurses but it had to be done through the GP, who also arranged a day care team as well. This was all free of charge, I think for the first few weeks. We only needed them for a fortnight.

Please try this before you go spending a lot of money on private care.

Im appalled by your story and hope that you can get some care in place very soon.
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,375
0
@Dutchy JJ I am so sorry to hear the trauma your mother has been through at the hospital.

It really does sound as if respite in a care home would be the best thing for her, none of you can carry on like this.

Hospital can be a terrible place for a PWD (person with dementia) - but please bear in mind that a good care home is a different thing entirely because the carers know how to care for PWDs. They have all the personnel, equipment and techniques needed, for example they are may well be able to use a hoist to get your mother to the toilet.

My mother has been in a care home for four years and the care has been exceptional. She also spent 10 days in hospital after she broke her hip 3 years ago, she was very confused and miserable in there as the nurses had no time even for the basics to help her eat, drink or mobilise. There really was no comparison, she is very happy in her care home.
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,893
0
I'm angry on your behalf reading this. Your mother should be in a care home. Good advice from forum members .
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
2,003
0
All I can add, is to find a Care Home, with Nursing Care, then there will be no need to move mother again.
Staying where and how she is now, is going to create an uncontrollable crisis.

Bod
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
3,683
0
I am so sorry @Dutchy JJ that this has happened to your mum. My dad had a similar experience of being told to do it in his nappy when in hospital and I was livid because dad was not incontinent. It was a long story and I won't go into detail now but I have read similar stories on here that say much the same about hospital stays. We did get dad home and he never was incontinent even after his dreadful experience and I cared for him but I was a reasonably fit person then. Caring for someone at home full time takes it's toll on the carer both physically and mentally and sadly I don't think that Amanda will be able to cope much longer and I agree with the others that your mum will be better cared for in a care home and Amanda will have time to recover her health.
 

GillP

Registered User
Aug 11, 2021
3,939
0
Reading this has shocked me. Your Mum has been through a dreadful ordeal in hospital. She now needs a caring consistent approach which a care home with nursing will provide. Amanda also needs help.

There needs to be more involvement from the GP and social services as a matter of urgency to help you sort things out .

@janeholland , I I hope that your visit today is productive and wish you all a positive outcome.
 

Hazel63

Registered User
Aug 9, 2021
42
0
Shocked to read this, but nothing surprises me anymore. You're in an intolerable situation, and my heart goes out to you all. Your Mum needs to go in a nursing home for respite as soon as possible, to give you a break and time to think. If you don't take care of yourselves , you'll be no use to your Mum. Please also write to your Mum's GP, and SS, as I found they took more notice of me when I put our situation in writing. It's all so hard, but you've done an amazing job so far. Thinking of you ((x))
 

Frank24

Registered User
Feb 13, 2018
420
0
Echoing others here, but a care home is the only solution. My mothers Carer’s where amazing to her and there is no way I could have coped with end of life at home. These professionals have training and are not emotionally involved as family are. You and your sister must be incredibly stressed. Which won’t be helping your mum sadly. Hospitals are dreadful places for PWD. This is so sad to read.
 

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